How the U.S. created the Haqqani Network = Bird, Oggy and Wolf talk about all kinds of Important Sheeeit!!

The staunchly libertarian candidate "wishes the Israeli state did not exist at all," Eric Dondero wrote in a column for website RightWingNews.com published Monday. "He expressed this to me numerous times in our private conversations."

Read more on Newsmax.com: Former Ron Paul Aide: He's Anti-Israel

ROn is that you?

hey wolf

There’s no question that the firing of rockets and mortars [by armed groups from Gaza] was deliberate and calculated to cause loss of life and injury to civilians and damage to civilian structures. The mission found that these actions also amount to serious war crimes and also possibly crimes against humanity,” he said.

Israel doesn't invade for fun. Lebanon and Gaza were invaded WHY?

wolf you show up, state Bird is wrong, bring nothing to the argument but your anti israel views and your lack of overall knowledge on history.

You know your cherry picked ant Israel facts. Good for you. Keep living in fantasy land.

Birdofthad wrote:

wolf you show up, state Bird is wrong, bring nothing to the argument but your anti israel views and your lack of overall knowledge on history.

You know your cherry picked ant Israel facts. Good for you. Keep living in fantasy land.

Except statements FROM THE UN PRESIDENT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND THE HUMAN RIGHTS COUNSEL AND ARTICLES WRITTEN BY AMERICAN LAW PROFESSORS AND AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL AND OTHER JEWS

Bird, how come you counter accusations of war crimes with other war crimes. If some PLO savages beheaded ten babies on the internet in front of the world it wouldn't justify Israel returning the favor with other genocide. That is stupid. Theyre both dirty, this is an untenable religious war with no end in sight. fuck em all dude. Not our bidness.

We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the U.N. Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report. If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.

The final report by the U.N. committee of independent experts — chaired by former New York judge Mary McGowan Davis — that followed up on the recommendations of the Goldstone Report has found that “Israel has dedicated significant resources to investigate over 400 allegations of operational misconduct in Gaza” while “the de facto authorities (i.e., Hamas) have not conducted any investigations into the launching of rocket and mortar attacks against Israel.”

Our report found evidence of potential war crimes and “possibly crimes against humanity” by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets.

The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.

I dare you to read this whole article wolf.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

Some have suggested that it was absurd to expect Hamas, an organization that has a policy to destroy the state of Israel, to investigate what we said were serious war crimes. It was my hope, even if unrealistic, that Hamas would do so, especially if Israel conducted its own investigations. At minimum I hoped that in the face of a clear finding that its members were committing serious war crimes, Hamas would curtail its attacks. Sadly, that has not been the case. Hundreds more rockets and mortar rounds have been directed at civilian targets in southern Israel. That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The U.N. Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms.

In the end, asking Hamas to investigate may have been a mistaken enterprise. So, too, the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds.

Regrettably, there has been no effort by Hamas in Gaza to investigate the allegations of its war crimes and possible crimes against humanity.

Simply put, the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies. Ensuring that non-state actors respect these principles, and are investigated when they fail to do so, is one of the most significant challenges facing the law of armed conflict. Only if all parties to armed conflicts are held to these standards will we be able to protect civilians who, through no choice of their own, are caught up in war.


Wolf these people stand at a border and fire rockets into the country, Israel invades, sectarian violence breaks out, and you place all blame on Israel. Interesting.

I am gonna try hard not to reply. If the UN human rights counsel calling Israel war criminals cant convince you, nothing will, and I dont want to start to think negatively of you as a person bird and anymore discussions in the face of your blind idiocy will be bad for my concept of you. Cheers friend.


I live you with this - from the UN human rights commissions own website :

The Human Rights Council at its Special Session in January requested that the UN Human Rights Chief report regularly on the “Grave Violations of Human Rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, particularly Due to the Recent Israeli Military Attacks against the Occupied Gaza Strip”. The Special Session of the Council was convened in response to Israel’s military operation in Gaza. This first report from the High Commissioner has as its main focus the impact of the conflict on civilians and respect for international humanitarian law and international human rights law by all the parties involved.

UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay © UN Photo/Jean-Marc FERREIn her presentation to the Council, High Commissioner Pillay urged an end to the impunity for human rights violations.

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/MajorReportsOnGazaConflict.aspx

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Bird, how come you counter accusations of war crimes with other war crimes. If some PLO savages beheaded ten babies on the internet in front of the world it wouldn't justify Israel returning the favor with other genocide. That is stupid. Theyre both dirty, this is an untenable religious war with no end in sight. fuck em all dude. Not our bidness.

are you kidding every response I make is normally disputing your opinion with a fact. Im not saying Israel is the goody too shoes of the world. I am saying sorry I think Israel has the right to exist and a right to defend themselves. They have been attacked since 1948. Every attack on Israel has one constant, the war does not have a just cause.

They are based on the absolute destruction of Israel simply because of its existence.

When Iran became the first modern Shia Arab country, did america, Britian, Israel and Russia get together and wage war on Iran?

Nope.

Quote :

Wolf these people stand at a border and fire rockets into the country, Israel invades, sectarian violence breaks out, and you place all blame on Israel. Interesting.

My last reply
1. I BLAME NO ONE
2. I BLAME EVERYONE
3. NO GOOD GUYS EXIST
4. ISRAEL IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR US AND THEIR THREATS ARE OF NO MORE VALUE THAN ANY OTHER NATIONS THREATS
5. JESUS IS NOT COMING BACK
6. THE US DEFENDING ISRAEL IS NOT GOING TO BRING JESUS BACK
7. OUR NATIONAL INTEREST IS NO SERVED BY TURNING A BLIND EYE TO ISRAELS WRONGS WHILE FOCUSING ON THE WRONGS OF ANOTHER SIDE
8. ITS NUNYA BUSNISS AND NUNUA MY BIDNIZZ WHO WINS THAT WAR
9. SUPPORTING ANY SIDE IN FOREIGN CONFLICT WITHOUT A CLEAR PUBLIC DISCOURSE OR NATIONAL INTEREST BEING SERVED IS WRONG
10. AL QUEDA WILL LEAVE US ALONE IF WE STOPPED DEFENDING ISRAEL, DICTATORS AND KEPT OUR NOSE OUT OF SECTARIAN CONFLICTS
11. BIRD YOURE A DUMB WIGGER
12. STICK TO TALKING ABOUT YOUR HARD ON FOR KEN SHAMROCK
13. I WISH ALL THESE FAGS WOULD CONVERT TO THE BAHAI FAITH SO EVERYONE WOULD SHUT UP

wolf do you understand that these people blend in with civilization, they want urban warfare, they bragged about booby traps they left behind, this was urban warfare, this was a war that will be studied for a long time by militaries.
this UN commission you keep going on about found that BOTH SIDES plus you blatantly cherry pick. AND THEN A MAN ON THE COMMISSION WROTE AN OP ED SAYING THE COMMISSION WAS TO HARD ON ISRAEL.

Israel has claimed that its troops only resorted to force and opened fire after coming under attack by activists with metal bars, axes and wooden clubs. The pro-Palestinian activists said they were defending the ship from what amounted to a pirate attack on a vessel in international waters.

When someone shoots thousands of rockets into your nation, what do you think is going to happen.

Wolf you won't admit it but you are a Hamas sympathizer if you blatantly blame Israel for war crimes, that are in fact retaliations to WAR CRIMES being committed by a terrorist organization. You fail to acknowledge that Israel is being provoked into retaliations and being driven into urban warfare. These guys hide in schools, mosques, hospitals and houses, THEY PUT THE CIVILIANS AT RISK

Look up Fallujah 1 and 2 if you want to see how the american military (after studying the Gaza War specifically) dealt with having to clear out a city that had over 10,000 militants hiding in houses, mosques, and buildings. Im sure after you do your 5 minutes of research you will come back screaming that USA committed war crimes. Ill tell you to piss off for my 2 friends that were there.

Look wolf and oggy, you probably disagree and I get it. But the USA did good thing through policy, Im glad South Korea exists, Im glad Israel exists, Im happy that Iraq and Afghanistan got to hold real elections after being under Hussein and Taliban rule, Im glad Germany and Japan are our friends after being our enemies, Im glad Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisians, Syrians and Yemenis want the right to vote, Im thankful that we have counterterrorism and security measures in place.

Also, I like how the U.N. sucks one day (Libya) but is your golden ticket the next day, and you decide to ignore all of the facts of their findings.
What there findings where was that Hamas committed war crimes and Israel committed what could be considered war crimes, and then several people on the committee have come out and changed their original findings.

Ken Shamrock came out of the closet I heard

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

Wolf these people stand at a border and fire rockets into the country, Israel invades, sectarian violence breaks out, and you place all blame on Israel. Interesting.

My last reply
1. I BLAME NO ONE
2. I BLAME EVERYONE
3. NO GOOD GUYS EXIST
4. ISRAEL IS NOT ANYWHERE NEAR US AND THEIR THREATS ARE OF NO MORE VALUE THAN ANY OTHER NATIONS THREATS
5. JESUS IS NOT COMING BACK
6. THE US DEFENDING ISRAEL IS NOT GOING TO BRING JESUS BACK
7. OUR NATIONAL INTEREST IS NO SERVED BY TURNING A BLIND EYE TO ISRAELS WRONGS WHILE FOCUSING ON THE WRONGS OF ANOTHER SIDE
8. ITS NUNYA BUSNISS AND NUNUA MY BIDNIZZ WHO WINS THAT WAR
9. SUPPORTING ANY SIDE IN FOREIGN CONFLICT WITHOUT A CLEAR PUBLIC DISCOURSE OR NATIONAL INTEREST BEING SERVED IS WRONG
10. AL QUEDA WILL LEAVE US ALONE IF WE STOPPED DEFENDING ISRAEL, DICTATORS AND KEPT OUR NOSE OUT OF SECTARIAN CONFLICTS
11. BIRD YOURE A DUMB WIGGER
12. STICK TO TALKING ABOUT YOUR HARD ON FOR KEN SHAMROCK
13. I WISH ALL THESE FAGS WOULD CONVERT TO THE BAHAI FAITH SO EVERYONE WOULD SHUT UP

we didn't turn a blind eye we supported the committees investigation.
What I take from your 13 points is that you don't like that we have global friends and your view on how to deal with terrorist organizations is to appease to them and hope they will play nice in return.
You also managed to slip in two anti semite "Jesus isn't coming back" quips, so congrats.

I see through your bullshit wolf, oggy is just a good guy who latches onto alotta anti government propaganda and conspiracy theories, but you, your special my friend. Why do I defend Israel? Because you constantly belittle and attack them while turning a blind eye to facts and the conflict that is actually taking place.

perfect example of what you are appeasing to

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/iraq-bombings-2012-al-qaeda_n_1369263.html?ref=world

they attack americans, arabs and europeans.

Don't bother me with anymore huff links. Or any idiotic links about anything. I hit you with UN leader statements. Not crap from a liberal corporate blog. This debate is over sans me addressing how stupid you are for saying this :



You also managed to slip in two anti semite "Jesus isn't coming back" quips, so congrats.

You clearly do not even know what anti semite means.

This is purely an anti-Christian quip. The Jews don't believe in Jesus, and view him as a false messiah. This dig is clearly to anyone who actually understands the sociopolitical and religious forces at work in our country aimed squarely at Dispensationalist evangelical Christians believe our involvement over there and protection of Israel is fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. The shit is all over 700 club type media and a big reason for anti-Islamic, racist, pro-Zionist support. A large part of republican base believes in this disgusting shit.

What religion are you bird? Do not reply unless you answer this question.

Zionism is the political policy of American support for Israel and an aggressive pro Israeli foreign policy at the expense of Islamic peoples. Zionism is a Western, largely white, Judeo-Christian doctrine of violence, rooted in religious and racial hatred for Arabs. Whether or not Arabs return the favor is immaterial to what Zionism is.

Anti-semitism means a racial or religious-based hatred for jews. I am anti-Zionist. I am no more an anti-semite than I am an anti-German for disagreeing with Nazism, anti-Russian or anti-Russian for disagreeing with Communism.

Criticism of the Jewish state and Zionism is avoided by shouting "anti semite anti semite!!!" loudly, and I don't expect you to even grasp these concepts based on how poorly you've performed over this debate as an intellect.

I hate the state of Israel as it exists today, but only for political reasons. If they abandoned their aggressive, belligerent nationalism, recognized Palestine, stopped making new settlements, and the USA stopped backing them in regional conflicts, I would look at them the same way I look at Jordan, India, Finland, Nepal, Uganda, Colombia or any other nation anywhere in the world.


Anywhere in anything I have said in any of these discussions, name one single ANTI SEMITIC thing I have said. Do not name anti-Israeli, or anti-Zionist policy criticisms. Those are invalidated. Do not reply unless you can name something that shows racism against jews or you admit I am an anti-Zionist instead

You avoid way too much in these discussions. Stop ducking the issues. Also, my maternal great grandpa was Jewish.

like i said. every link he posts is from corporate media. You aren't getting the truth there. Yes, Israel has a right to exist and defend themselves. That is not what they are doing to Palestinian communities. Bulldozing peoples houses and destroying their lives is not ok, no matter what reasoning you think justifies it. Just because Israel thinks they have some religious right to Palestinian land doesn't mean they can forceably remove and destroy Palestinian Villages.

all i know is when the President has the right to kill U.S citizens, suspend due process and posse comitatus, that's how you know things are fucked. What happened to for the people, by the people, of the people?

When people fear their government, it is tyranny. When the government fears it's people, it is Liberty.

oggy420 wrote:

like i said. every link he posts is from corporate media. You aren't getting the truth there. Yes, Israel has a right to exist and defend themselves. That is not what they are doing to Palestinian communities. Bulldozing peoples houses and destroying their lives is not ok, no matter what reasoning you think justifies it. Just because Israel thinks they have some religious right to Palestinian land doesn't mean they can forceably remove and destroy Palestinian Villages.

Focusing only on the acts of islamist fighters and so called terrorists is akin to focusing only on the crimes, rapes, murders committed by black men when discussing institutional racism and social injustice. Identical.

here ya go ludo, a nice recent article about how our troops are so stressed they are snapping all the time

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/20/troops-stressed-to-breaking-point/

What exactly is your point, oggy? Of course military personnel are going to be stressed during active duty in a ten year war. But the fact of the matter is these people signed up for this. Nobody picked them out of a bucket by social security number or birthday. They went down to the recruitment offices and said "I want to fight". I feel for them and I am fully aware of how the service fucks some of these guys around with enlistment periods, however all of that is made clear to anyone who is filling out the paperwork to enlist. Active duty suicides and post discharge suicides aren't the same thing. We cannot give these guys anti-anxiety medication in the field mainly because it works to dull the senses which is a veritable death sentence in the urban style combat these people are facing.

This may be the most stressful war the US has ever participated in. Not knowing who the enemy is alot of times before it's too late because they dress like everyone else. Not knowing if someone is going to come out of a mosque or house with an explosive strapped to their chest. Not knowing if just driving down the road is going to be the last thing you ever do, or the last thing you ever do with all your fingers and toes intact. Not knowing if in a given group of women or children there is a bomb strapped to the chest of one of them set to detonate right next to you.

yes. and it's not necessary. We are never going to accomplish anything in Afghanistan. It is a perpetual war with no end in sight. And the point is also that the establishment in this country don't care about the soldiers, ever been to a veterans hospital? Obama just cut their health benefits, it's disgusting how this country treats our "heroes". Soldiers can't get enough money to pay their health bills meanwhile we bail out too big to fail banks and they just give themselves huge bonuses. Im truly sorry if you can't see what is wrong with this picture.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Don't bother me with anymore huff links. Or any idiotic links about anything. I hit you with UN leader statements. Not crap from a liberal corporate blog. This debate is over sans me addressing how stupid you are for saying this :



You also managed to slip in two anti semite "Jesus isn't coming back" quips, so congrats.

You clearly do not even know what anti semite means.

This is purely an anti-Christian quip. The Jews don't believe in Jesus, and view him as a false messiah. This dig is clearly to anyone who actually understands the sociopolitical and religious forces at work in our country aimed squarely at Dispensationalist evangelical Christians believe our involvement over there and protection of Israel is fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. The shit is all over 700 club type media and a big reason for anti-Islamic, racist, pro-Zionist support. A large part of republican base believes in this disgusting shit.

What religion are you bird? Do not reply unless you answer this question.

Zionism is the political policy of American support for Israel and an aggressive pro Israeli foreign policy at the expense of Islamic peoples. Zionism is a Western, largely white, Judeo-Christian doctrine of violence, rooted in religious and racial hatred for Arabs. Whether or not Arabs return the favor is immaterial to what Zionism is.

Anti-semitism means a racial or religious-based hatred for jews. I am anti-Zionist. I am no more an anti-semite than I am an anti-German for disagreeing with Nazism, anti-Russian or anti-Russian for disagreeing with Communism.

Criticism of the Jewish state and Zionism is avoided by shouting "anti semite anti semite!!!" loudly, and I don't expect you to even grasp these concepts based on how poorly you've performed over this debate as an intellect.

I hate the state of Israel as it exists today, but only for political reasons. If they abandoned their aggressive, belligerent nationalism, recognized Palestine, stopped making new settlements, and the USA stopped backing them in regional conflicts, I would look at them the same way I look at Jordan, India, Finland, Nepal, Uganda, Colombia or any other nation anywhere in the world.


Anywhere in anything I have said in any of these discussions, name one single ANTI SEMITIC thing I have said. Do not name anti-Israeli, or anti-Zionist policy criticisms. Those are invalidated. Do not reply unless you can name something that shows racism against jews or you admit I am an anti-Zionist instead

hahah wolf you are an idiot and trying to cover your ass

Jewish people don't believe the messiah has returned yet, your tw comments state he isn't coming back

I POSTED AN OP ED WRITTEN BY A MAN ON THE COMMISSION YOU TWO MORONS

oggy420 wrote:

yes. and it's not necessary. We are never going to accomplish anything in Afghanistan. It is a perpetual war with no end in sight. And the point is also that the establishment in this country don't care about the soldiers, ever been to a veterans hospital? Obama just cut their health benefits, it's disgusting how this country treats our "heroes". Soldiers can't get enough money to pay their health bills meanwhile we bail out too big to fail banks and they just give themselves huge bonuses. Im truly sorry if you can't see what is wrong with this picture.

afghanistan wasn't a necessary war?

you are a fool

wolf lets start with your denial of the facts of the holocaust

also wolf i have stated we had a war where the official findings where Hamas committed war crimes that led to the invasion and Israel committed what could be determined war crimes.

Yet you ignore Hamas and bitch about Israel