How the U.S. created the Haqqani Network = Bird, Oggy and Wolf talk about all kinds of Important Sheeeit!!

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

My grandpa was jewish. You can have an opinion freak. considering your MMA opinions are utterly worthless maybe these counter balance them.

freakzilla wrote:

The whole problem started with Palestinians being taken out of their own land and it being given to the Jews. What else would you expect to happen? The Arabs only started hating the U.S when you guys started supporting and backing up Israel. I guarantee if you guys had nothing to do with Israel then the Muslims would have no problem at all with the U.S.

Oh how wrong you were...

Ludo, I find it implausible you're into the outskirts of even the commercial extreme metal scene and still don't accept this basic fact. The US support for Israel is a significant reason. But also our support for the Saudi dictatorship and other involvement in sectarian conflicts to protect the oil over there. There is oil all over the world. Facilitating and committing arab genocides will piss off arabs. Basic shit here. Getting involved in religious wars will piss off anyone. Basic shit here.

problem is I have kind of proven with facts that these people you are defending, participated in the holocaust actively. Yet you claim america is participating in some sort of muslim genocide. Bullshit.

humanitarian war is a corporate media lie. War is a business. Killing, bombing, and stealing natural resources are recession-proof.

Clearly we are far less effective in genocide than the Nazi's were, then. I'd expect so many more arabs to be dead by now if we really are making an effort to eradicate them. Is it a double negative to be bad at being evil?

wow. so clueless and disconnected from reality. How many dead innocent children is enough to matter these days?

oggy420 wrote:

wow. so clueless and disconnected from reality. How many dead innocent children is enough to matter these days?

Well percentage points isn't what Genocide means, you know.

oggy420 wrote:

actually im supporting their beliefs, while you are shiting on them. Look who active duty and veterans support the most. Several hundred marched on the white house on president's day ....for Ron Paul. That got no main stream coverage. Look at the donations. while Obama and Romney are funded by corrupt mega banks like Goldman Sachs, Ron Paul's top 3 donors are Army, Navy, and Air Force. Ron Paul gets more donations from military than all the other candidates combined, and he is the only veteran. So fuck you, im not using the suicides of soldiers that you don't care about sending off to their death to fight some never ending war against the evil muslims, to prove my beliefs. Im unfortunately the only patriot here apparently willing to, you know, that whole cliche "support our troops".

and please show me where Ron Paul said he wanted to go after the Taliban, seriously i'd like to see that because i've never heard him say that before. Quite the opposite actually.

He stated that the Taliban needed to be removed, then claimed this year, something that wast true.

Congressman Paul supported going into Afghanistan and attacking those who attacked us on 9/11. He voted to give the President the authority to use force there. However, Congressman Paul noted that using force against the Taliban was not a declaration of war. He stated that to declare war against a group that is not a country makes the clear declaration of war more complex. Congressman Paul argued that the best tool the framers of the Constitution provided under those circumstances was the power of Congress to grant letters of marque and reprisals. He cautioned against entering into such a vague and undefined war, but in the end supported the resolution to use force as it was the only option available and doing nothing was unthinkable

Paul also has a hard time understanding the history of the Taliban because he has misspoken about them several times.

He claims we created the Taliban in the Soviet era, but the problem is the Taliban didn't rise out of Kandahar until well after the SOviet war was over and the Najibullah regime was in place.

problem is I have kind of proven with facts that these people you are defending, participated in the holocaust actively. Yet you claim america is participating in some sort of muslim genocide. Bullshit.

The existence of evil on one side doesn't cancel evil on the other. There is no ethical reason to choose a side here. Only financial. Except our citizens don't benefit.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

problem is I have kind of proven with facts that these people you are defending, participated in the holocaust actively. Yet you claim america is participating in some sort of muslim genocide. Bullshit.

The existence of evil on one side doesn't cancel evil on the other. There is no ethical reason to choose a side here. Only financial. Except our citizens don't benefit.

what genocide has Israel created?

Your full of shit wolf

Ludo wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

wow. so clueless and disconnected from reality. How many dead innocent children is enough to matter these days?

Well percentage points isn't what Genocide means, you know.

I think oggy needs to look up what genocide means because I am positive Israel and the USA aren't systematically targeting the extermination of muslim children.

heres what you don't get wolf

millions of jewish people were slaughtered by the Nazis and middle eastern muslims who liked the idea of killing jews.

Before you state your bullshit opinion on how those numbers aren't true, think a little more.

The 2 state solution was agreed upon after WW2, Israel was created and then attacked by all of the middle east, including some of the same leaders who cooperated with the Nazis.
Israel has been attacked by its neighbors since 1948.

Yet ya you are right, the jews and americans are somehow the bad guys.

what are they doing to Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

Here is the problem with US foreign policy

The US will do a drone attack on a large group of people, killing however many innocent civilians, that is not important to them, just to get one bad guy. This cause blow back.

oggy420 wrote:

what are they doing doing Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

Wait... People fighting over land? Say it isn't so. That onlt follows the basic principle of most every war ever fought to a degree. But that's not genocide. Genocide is when you are looking to wipe out an entire race/group of people. IE the Nazi's idea of a perfect world didn't include the "feeble jewish dog" and thus the jewish people had to die in order to make room for the so called superior race. This doesn't sound anything like that, in fact it doesn't sound like you know what the word Genocide even means.

so anything that doesn't reach the power of the Nazi army isn't genocide? What do you not understand? If you kill people only of a certain race or religion, like the Israeli state killing Palestinians and taking land that they think they have some religious right to, then imposing total segregation and continuing the process over and over again, because this is still going on to this day, that is genocide.

bird how is it possible you could ask what genocide israel has committed with all the stuff we have shown you? The laundry list of EU, UN, Amnesty International etc violations and allegations is to long to list.

Israel is a defacto apartheid state as characterized by UN investigators and the South African government itself.


Imagine if the United States supported the South African apartheid, then other African groups attacked us out of solidarity for their abused brothers, and we used that as an excuse to launch full invasions of other African nations. Who would be morally wrong there eh?

oggy420 wrote:

so anything that doesn't reach the power of the Nazi army isn't genocide? What do you not understand? If you kill people only of a certain race or religion, like the Israeli state killing Palestinians and taking land that they think they have some religious right to, then imposing total segregation and continuing the process over and over again, because this is still going on to this day, that is genocide.

No, that's a localized issue. Nazi's swept across the whole of europe with the intention of removing Jews from the world, not just Israel.

Ludo wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

what are they doing doing Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

Wait... People fighting over land? Say it isn't so. That onlt follows the basic principle of most every war ever fought to a degree. But that's not genocide. Genocide is when you are looking to wipe out an entire race/group of people. IE the Nazi's idea of a perfect world didn't include the "feeble jewish dog" and thus the jewish people had to die in order to make room for the so called superior race. This doesn't sound anything like that, in fact it doesn't sound like you know what the word Genocide even means.

Holocaust again being used and blown out of proportions to justify gobs of other war crimes. Ludo you're walkin up in this debate with an 11th grade civics education. This is big boy talk. Step aside.

oggy420 wrote:

what are they doing doing Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

ya oggy they just decided to do that out of no where. TOtally unprovoked right.

do a history lesson

you see Britian owned Palestine, a 2 state solution was agreed upon, Jewish leaders accept, arab leaders reject.

Ya its Israels fault

then guess what happened in 1948. Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Transjordan, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army, and local Arabs attack the new Jewish state with the intent of destroying it.

then lets take a look at how the PLO was formed in 1964. The Palestine Liberation Organization is founded in Cairo by the Arab League with Ahmad Shuqeiri as its leader. Even though Ahmad Shuqeiri is the official leader, the organization is more or less controlled by the Egyptian government. The PLO states their goal as the destruction of the State of Israel through armed struggle, and replacing it with an "independent Palestinian state" between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Over the decades, the PLO carried out thousands of attacks against Israelis and others around the world, including the first airplane hijackings.

Followed by 6 Day War and Yom Kippur War, invasions and attempted invasions of Israel.

then guess what happens, PLO does a bunch of hijackings and terrorist explosions in Isreal and THEN AND THEN MY FRIEND

You have the start of your so called Israeli genocide. 1981 Israel bombs PLO Headquarters in Bierut. PLO does numerous bombings and Israel invades Lebanon in 1982 to go after PLO.

1987 sees the first Intifada and rise and creation of Hamas, Palestinians claim this was a nonviolent uprising, but it quickly turned violent with 27 Israelis killed and more than 1,400 Israeli civilians and 1,700 Israeli soldiers injured. Almost half (1,000) of the Palestinian casualties were caused by other Palestinians in the “Intrafada,” or internal, fighting among Palestinian factions.

Then guess what some people in middle east come to their senses. King Hussein says PLO does not have claim to West Bank 1987.
Gulf War - Saddam Hussein launches over 40 scud missiles into Israel.

1993 OSLO accords end first Intifada

April 6, 1994 Hamas carries out 2nd terrorist explosion
May 1994, Israel withdraws from Jericho and Gaza City
October 1994 Hamas carries out terrorist attack in Tel Aviv
Israel - Jordan Peace accords 1994
1995-1999 over 7 terrorist attacks killing over 400 are carried out.
2000 Israel leaves Lebanon
2000 Second Intifada


ARE YOU SEEIN A RECURRING PATTERN HERE???? Who is for peace and who is using terrorist attacks.

Wake up !!!

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ludo wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

what are they doing doing Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

Wait... People fighting over land? Say it isn't so. That onlt follows the basic principle of most every war ever fought to a degree. But that's not genocide. Genocide is when you are looking to wipe out an entire race/group of people. IE the Nazi's idea of a perfect world didn't include the "feeble jewish dog" and thus the jewish people had to die in order to make room for the so called superior race. This doesn't sound anything like that, in fact it doesn't sound like you know what the word Genocide even means.

Holocaust again being used and blown out of proportions to justify gobs of other war crimes. Ludo you're walkin up in this debate with an 11th grade civics educate. This is big boy talk. Step aside.

Ahh, but I stayed at a holiday inn express.

940,000 Palestinians in 1948 census

4.5 million Palestinians in 2008.

Ludo wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

so anything that doesn't reach the power of the Nazi army isn't genocide? What do you not understand? If you kill people only of a certain race or religion, like the Israeli state killing Palestinians and taking land that they think they have some religious right to, then imposing total segregation and continuing the process over and over again, because this is still going on to this day, that is genocide.

No, that's a localized issue. Nazi's swept across the whole of europe with the intention of removing Jews from the world, not just Israel.

thank you for understanding what genocide means

ludo genocide isn't something made up by the nazi's lol

Genocide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

oggy420 wrote:

so anything that doesn't reach the power of the Nazi army isn't genocide? What do you not understand? If you kill people only of a certain race or religion, like the Israeli state killing Palestinians and taking land that they think they have some religious right to, then imposing total segregation and continuing the process over and over again, because this is still going on to this day, that is genocide.

lol no what you dont understand is this

genocide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

so you actually support the genocide on the Isreali state? Interesting.

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ludo wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

what are they doing doing Palestinians? Killing innocent people of a specific race, bulldozing their communities and setting up Jewish only communities, total segregation and Genocide.

Wait... People fighting over land? Say it isn't so. That onlt follows the basic principle of most every war ever fought to a degree. But that's not genocide. Genocide is when you are looking to wipe out an entire race/group of people. IE the Nazi's idea of a perfect world didn't include the "feeble jewish dog" and thus the jewish people had to die in order to make room for the so called superior race. This doesn't sound anything like that, in fact it doesn't sound like you know what the word Genocide even means.

Holocaust again being used and blown out of proportions to justify gobs of other war crimes. Ludo you're walkin up in this debate with an 11th grade civics educate. This is big boy talk. Step aside.

Ahh, but I stayed at a holiday inn express.

That made me giggle.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11721

Yo :

Quote :

As long ago as October 19, 2000, the then United Nations Human Rights Commission (now Council) condemned Israel for inflicting “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity” upon the Palestinian people, most of whom are Muslims. The reader has a general idea of what a war crime is, so I am not going to elaborate upon that term here. But there are different degrees of heinousness for war crimes. In particular are the more serious war crimes denominated “grave breaches” of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Since the outbreak of the first Intifada in 1987, the world has seen those heinous war crimes inflicted every day by Israel against the Palestinian people living in occupied Palestine: e.g., willful killing of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli army and by Israel’s illegal paramilitary settlers. These Israeli “grave breaches” of the Fourth Geneva Convention mandate universal prosecution for the perpetrators and their commanders, whether military or civilian, including and especially Israel’s political leaders.

But I want to focus for a moment on Israel’s “crimes against humanity” against the Palestinian people—as determined by the U.N. Human Rights Commission itself, set up pursuant to the requirements of the United Nations Charter. What are “crimes against humanity”? This concept goes all the way back to the Nuremberg Charter of 1945 for the trial of the major Nazi war criminals in Europe. In the Nuremberg Charter of 1945, drafted by the United States Government, there was created and inserted a new type of international crime specifically intended to deal with the Nazi persecution of the Jewish people:

Crimes against humanity: namely, murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated.

The paradigmatic example of “crimes against humanity” is what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish people. This is where the concept of “crimes against humanity” came from. And this is what the U.N. Human Rights Commission determined that Israel is currently doing to the Palestinian people: crimes against humanity. Expressed in legal terms, this is just like what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jews. That is the significance of the formal determination by the U.N. Human Rights Commission that Israel has inflicted “crimes against humanity” upon the Palestinian people. The Commission chose this well-known and long-standing legal term of art quite carefully and deliberately based upon the evidence it had compiled.

Furthermore, the Nuremberg “crimes against humanity” are the historical and legal precursor to the international crime of genocide as defined by the 1948 Genocide Convention. The theory here was that what Hitler and the Nazis did to the Jewish people was so horrific that it required a special international treaty that would codify and universalize the Nuremberg concept of “crimes against humanity.” And that treaty ultimately became the 1948 Genocide Convention.

Article II of the Genocide Convention defines the international crime of genocide in relevant part as follows:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

….

As documented by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe in his seminal book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006), Israel’s genocidal policy against the Palestinians has been unremitting, extending from before the very foundation of the State of Israel in 1948, and is ongoing and even intensifying against the 1.5 million Palestinians living in Gaza. Zionism’s “final solution” to Israel’s much touted “demographic threat” allegedly posed by the very existence of the Palestinians has always been genocide.

Certainly, Israel and its predecessors-in-law—the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs—have committed genocide against the Palestinian people that actually started on or about 1948 and has continued apace until today in violation of Genocide Convention Articles II(a), (b), and (c). For at least the past six decades, the Israeli government and its predecessors-in-law—the Zionist agencies, forces, and terrorist gangs—have ruthlessly implemented a systematic and comprehensive military, political, and economic campaign with the intent to destroy in substantial part the national, ethnical, racial, and different religious (Jews versus Muslims and Christians) group constituting the Palestinian people. This Zionist/Israeli campaign has consisted of killing members of the Palestinian people in violation of Genocide Convention Article II(a). This Zionist/Israeli campaign has also caused serious bodily and mental harm to the Palestinian people in violation of Genocide Convention Article II(b). This Zionist/Israeli campaign has also deliberately inflicted on the Palestinian people conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction in substantial part in violation of Article II(c) of the Genocide Convention.

Article I of the Genocide Convention requires all contracting parties such as the United States “to prevent and to punish” genocide. Yet to the contrary, historically the “Jewish” state’s criminal conduct against the Palestinians has been financed, armed, equipped, supplied and politically supported by the “Christian” United States. Although the United States is a founding sponsor of, and a contracting party to, both the Nuremberg Charter and the Genocide Convention, as well as the United Nations Charter, these legal facts have never made any difference to the United States when it comes to its blank-check support for Israel and their joint and severable criminal mistreatment of the Palestinians—truly the wretched of the earth!

The world has not yet heard even one word uttered by the United States and its NATO allies in favor of “humanitarian intervention” against Israel in order to protect the Palestinian people, let alone a “responsibility to protect” the Palestinians from Zionist/Israeli genocide. The United States, its NATO allies, and the Great Powers on the U.N. Security Council would not even dispatch a U.N. Charter Chapter 6 monitoring force to help protect the Palestinians, let alone even contemplate any type of U.N. Charter Chapter 7 enforcement actions against Israel – shudder the thought!. The doctrine of “humanitarian intervention” so readily espoused elsewhere when U.S. foreign policy goals are allegedly at stake has been clearly proved to be a joke and a fraud when it comes to stopping the ongoing and accelerating Israeli campaign of genocide against the Palestinian people.

Rather than rein in the Israelis—which would be possible just by turning off the funding pipeline—the United States government, the U.S. Congress, and U.S. taxpayers instead support the “Jewish” state to the tune of about 4 billion dollars per year, without whose munificence this instance of genocide – and indeed conceivably the State of Israel itself – would not be possible. What the world witnesses here is (yet another) case of “dishumanitarian intervention” or “humanitarian extermination” by the United States and Israel against the Palestinians and Palestine. In today’s world genocide pays so long as it is done at the behest of the United States and its de jure or de facto allies such as Israel.

Of course miracles can always happen. But I anticipate no fundamental change in America’s support for the Israeli campaign of genocide against the Palestinians during the tenure of the Obama/Clinton administration.

oggy420 wrote:

ludo genocide isn't something made up by the nazi's lol

Genocide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

hahaha you just proved my point.

Israel isn't targeting to destroy Palestinians whereas we have a whole group of people who want to end the Israeli state.