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 Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?

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oggy420
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PostSubject: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyThu Aug 09, 2012 8:49 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyThu Aug 09, 2012 11:47 pm

haha no,
Abdullah Azzam created Al Qaeda

400,000 people fought for the Afghanistan mujihadeen, the CIA never directly trained anyone, they gave funding to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia matched what we gave to Pakistan.

THe Pakistani ISI mainly backed Gulbuddin Hekmatyer, but other leaders like Ahmad Shah Massoud and Abdul Rashid Dostum (american allies against Taliban and Al Qaeda) fought in the Afghanistan jihad.

Of those 400,000 Mujihadeen, 400 came and fought with Osama Bin Laden during the time period. They were called the Arab-Afghans. THey fought in the battle of Jaji and that is about it. They never had any CIA training.
The Afghanistan fighters looked at them as a nuisance and they were clear madrassa students not trained fighters.

Guess what, during the Afghanistan Civil War BIN LADEN AND AL QAEDA LEFT, they didn't come back until they were expelled from the Sudan because of sanctions from Clinton after the Battle of Mogadishu (Black Hawk Down), Bin Laden returned to Afghanistan after american allie Saudi Arabia refused Bin Laden to base his Al Qaeda (he blew up Abdullah Azzam the real founder of Al Qaeda) in Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden moved to Afghanistan during the Civil War in which the Taliban (WHICH HAD NO CONNECTION TO THE SOVIET WAR) began battling Ahmad Shah Massouds forces (america had left afghanistan and Pakistani ISI backed Hekmatyer against Massoud) Massoud and Dostum battled the Taliban and Al Qaeda from 1994 to 2001.

America backed Massoud against Al Qaeda and Taliban ever since the 1998 embassy bombings.

Sorry Oggy, nice youtube video, read a fucking book, you don't know shit on this subject and I will debate you on this all day. There is a difference between funding 400,000 pro freedom afghanistan fighters against the soviet empire (who dropped non GPS guided bombs and killed a million civilians) and creating a terrorist organization who attacks and kills american civilians.

Have fun in fantasy land, tell President Paul I said hi.

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyFri Aug 10, 2012 12:14 am

oggy420 wrote:




I triple dog dare you to watch this.

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyFri Aug 10, 2012 12:46 am

Ive got a great question?

How could the US government create something that they didn't even know existed for a couple of years?

riddle me this riddle me that, who's got another conspiracy theory up their snatch?

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyFri Aug 10, 2012 7:15 pm

haha why would i watch your video when you didn't even watch mine? In the vid one of your precious noble leaders - Hilary Clinton - admits that we are partly to blame because the CIA did create and fund and train the mujahideen (later named Al-Qaeda), which means you are technically the conspiracy theorist if you're calling our noble Secretary of State a liar....

Al-CIA-Duhh






but yea let's keep supporting our "arch enemy" Al-qaeda to overthrow the Syria government... so that we can invade and bomb and go to war with them?

Im not saying Assad is a great guy, obviously he isn't. But supporting Al-qaeda to overthrow foreign governments just doesn't seem like sensible foreign policy to me...
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 11, 2012 12:35 pm

it's fairly standard practice that if large 'democratic' nations want someone overthrown but can't be seen to do it themselves, they will hire insurgents to carry out the coup for them.

i don't believe that the US created al-qaeda for a second but western nations including the US and UK would've thought nothing about selling them weapons, with or without legitimate end-user certification.
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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 11, 2012 1:11 pm

oggy420 wrote:
haha why would i watch your video when you didn't even watch mine? In the vid one of your precious noble leaders - Hilary Clinton - admits that we are partly to blame because the CIA did create and fund and train the mujahideen (later named Al-Qaeda), which means you are technically the conspiracy theorist if you're calling our noble Secretary of State a liar....

Al-CIA-Duhh






but yea let's keep supporting our "arch enemy" Al-qaeda to overthrow the Syria government... so that we can invade and bomb and go to war with them?

Im not saying Assad is a great guy, obviously he isn't. But supporting Al-qaeda to overthrow foreign governments just doesn't seem like sensible foreign policy to me...

OGGY YOU ARE WRONG< THE MUJIHADEEN DID NOT RENAME ITSELF AL QAEDA, 200 to 400 Arabs under Bin Landen created a group in 1988 under Abdullah Azzam , namedAl Qaeda meaning the base, I did watch your video.

We funded the mujihadeen which was 400,000 people, you need to read a history book because the majority of the mujihadeen fought under Ahmad Shah Massoud and Rashida Dostum, and guess who they fought? Taliban and Al Qaeda and their Northern Front has become the National Afghanistan Army


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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 11, 2012 1:15 pm

by your standards the US government created the Confederacy.

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 11, 2012 2:30 pm

Reality Check : Oggy needs one

To date, there is no evidence pointing to American governmental assistance in the physical establishment of al-Qa’ida, whether financially, operationally, or logistically. Rather, according to the US State Department, Arab militants1 involved in the Soviet-Afghan War “functioned independently and had their own sources of funding.” 2 The cornerstone of the Central Intelligence Agency’s (CIA) involvement in the war was carried out by a decade-long, covert relationship with Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Agency (ISI), and the Saudi General Intelligence Directorate (GID

http://www.global-politics.co.uk/issue6/Stahl/

Moreover, when al-Qa’ida was formed on 10 September 1988, there were only 15 “brothers”.12 Their financing came from mosques, non-governmental organizations, charities, and private sponsors from overseas.13

It should be noted that the CIA was aware of the growth of the Arab jihadists and even “looked favorably” on the ongoing recruitment, given that the goal was one in the same: to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan. According to one State Department official, the Americans should not “see them as the enemy.”14 Aside from this favorable view, the CIA did not partake in any operations with the Arab militants.

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySun Aug 12, 2012 5:27 pm

oggy gets awfully quiet when facts get presented

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 12:49 pm

oh Oggy where ya been buddy?


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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyThu Aug 16, 2012 4:01 pm

some more reality for you Oggy

Abdullah Anas, an Algerian who was one of the foremost Afghan Arab organizers and the son-in-law of Abdullah Azzam, has also confirmed that the CIA had no relationship with the Afghan Arabs. Speaking on the French television program Zone Interdit on September 12, 2004, Anas stated:

If you say there was a relationship in the sense that the CIA used to meet with Arabs, discuss with them, prepare plans with them, and to fight with them – it never happened.



Read more: http://www.america.gov/st/webchat-english/2009/May/20090505134735atlahtnevel0.5280725.html#ixzz23k1331MT

The United States did not “create” Osama bin Laden or al Qaida. The United States supported the Afghans fighting for their country’s freedom in the 1980s — as did other countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China, Egypt, and the UK — but the United States did not support the “Afghan Arabs,” the Arabs and other Muslims who came to fight in Afghanistan for broader goals. CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen notes that the “Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding”:

While the charges that the CIA was responsible for the rise of the Afghan Arabs might make good copy, they don’t make good history. The truth is more complicated, tinged with varying shades of gray. The United States wanted to be able to deny that the CIA was funding the Afghan war, so its support was funneled through Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence agency (ISI). ISI in turn made the decisions about which Afghan factions to arm and train, tending to favor the most Islamist and pro-Pakistan. The Afghan Arabs generally fought alongside those factions, which is how the charge arose that they were creatures of the CIA.

Former CIA official Milt Bearden, who ran the Agency’s Afghan operation in the late 1980s, says: “The CIA did not recruit Arabs,” as there was no need to do so. There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight, and the Arabs who did come for jihad were “very disruptive . . . the Afghans thought they were a pain in the ass.” I have heard similar sentiments from Afghans who appreciated the money that flowed from the Gulf but did not appreciate the Arabs’ holier-than-thou attempts to convert them to their ultra-purist version of Islam. [Freelance cameraman] Peter Jouvenal recalls: “There was no love lost between the Afghans and the Arabs. One Afghan told me, ‘Whenever we had a problem with one of them we just shot them. They thought they were kings.’”

… There was simply no point in the CIA and the Afghan Arabs being in contact with each other. … the Afghan Arabs functioned independently and had their own sources of funding. The CIA did not need the Afghan Arabs, and the Afghan Arabs did not need the CIA. So the notion that the Agency funded and trained the Afghan Arabs is, at best, misleading. The “Let’s blame everything bad that happens on the CIA” school of thought vastly overestimates the Agency’s powers, both for good and ill. [Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: The Free Press, 2001), pp. 64-66.]

Al Qaida’s number two leader, Ayman al-Zawahiri, has confirmed that the “Afghan Arabs” did not receive any U.S. funding during the war in Afghanistan. In the book that was described as his “last will,” Knights Under the Prophet’s Banner, which was serialized in December 2001 in Al-Sharq al-Awsat, al-Zawahiri says the Afghan Arabs were funded with money from Arab sources, which amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars:

“While the United States backed Pakistan and the mujahidin factions with money and equipment, the young Arab mujahidin’s relationship with the United States was totally different.

“… The financing of the activities of the Arab mujahidin in Afghanistan came from aid sent to Afghanistan by popular organizations. It was substantial aid.

“The Arab mujahidin did not confine themselves to financing their own jihad but also carried Muslim donations to the Afghan mujahidin themselves. Usama Bin Ladin has apprised me of the size of the popular Arab support for the Afghan mujahidin that amounted, according to his sources, to $200 million in the form of military aid alone in 10 years. Imagine how much aid was sent by popular Arab organizations in the non-military fields such as medicine and health, education and vocational training, food, and social assistance ….

“Through the unofficial popular support, the Arab mujahidin established training centers and centers for the call to the faith. They formed fronts that trained and equipped thousands of Arab mujahidin and provided them with living expenses, housing, travel and organization.” (Al-Sharq al-Awsat, December 3, 2001, Foreign Broadcast Information Service (FBIS), GMP20011202000401)



Read more: http://www.america.gov/st/webchat-english/2009/May/20090505134735atlahtnevel0.5280725.html#ixzz23k1GxrXa

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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 1:06 am

come on oggy, can i at least get a response, something juicy like Dick Cheney trained Bin Laden.......

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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySat Aug 18, 2012 1:08 am

seriously oggy, educate yourself on this subject, look into Pakistan and Afghanistan during the civil war IN AFGHANISTAN, they backed Gulbuddin Hekmatyer and later the Taliban against Ahmad Shah Massoud. Bin Laden returned after being expelled from the Sudan and formed an alliance with Mullah Omar.


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PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySun Aug 19, 2012 9:33 pm

lol Bird you are ridiculous

The Secretary of State says we created mujahideen. You support Bombings in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen, to kill these bad guys. Instead usually we miss our targets and many civilians are murdered. Then you turn around and say hey, we now have to support these same bad guys but instead we are going to call them "rebels" and "freedom fighters" instead of terrorists because we have an financial and military interest in seeing the regime in Syria fall. Then when that happens, the rebels will take over and freedom will now be brought to the people of syria... except wait... ohh yea thats right the rebels are actually are sworn enemy al-qaeda and it turns out they are far worse than the regime that was previously in charge. Guess what everyone? Thats right. More War. And the cycle continues.

If that is what you call sensible foreign policy i have a bridge i want to sell you...
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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySun Aug 19, 2012 11:00 pm

yes we created the mujahideen along with Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and the Pakistani ISI. thank you for showing you don't know the difference between the mujahideen, the Arab Afghans, the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

You are probably confused because Mullah Omar (a man who did nothing during the Afghani Soviet War) claims his taliban are the real mujahideen, even though the Northern Alliance (the real Mujahideen) have been fighting him since 1994.

Educate yourself, you look like a conspiracy theory fool.

Sorry but you are wrong.

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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptySun Aug 19, 2012 11:02 pm

ogg yyou are a fool, you want to blame american for the Syrian uprising, you don't know the difference between Sunni (AQ majority), Persians and Pashtuns, Shiites and Shia Alawhites.

Educate yourself, you really need to.

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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyWed Jan 16, 2013 8:28 pm

mujihadeen does not = al qaeda numb nuts

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Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda?   Reality Check: The U.S. Government Created Al-Qaeda? EmptyThu Jan 17, 2013 10:08 am

1st video was private.

But if this is all linked back to the US supporting the Afghans against the USSR, well I thought this was all common knowledge.

Then war over, we bail, leaving Afghanistan in a state of rubble. Tom Hanks movie?
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