How the U.S. created the Haqqani Network = Bird, Oggy and Wolf talk about all kinds of Important Sheeeit!!

Check it out, right up your alley, Hillary CLinton talking about how we basically funded the creation of the Haqqani network (1/3 of the Taliban and probably the most important)

Now, I also think it’s important to take a little historical review. If you go on YouTube, you can see Sirajuddin Haqqani with President Reagan at the White House, because during the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, the United States Government, through the CIA, funded jihadis, funded groups like the Haqqanis to cross the border or to, within Afghanistan, be part of the fight to drive the Soviets out and bring down the Soviet Union.

So when I meet for many hours, as I do, with Pakistani officials, they rightly say, “You’re the ones who told us to cooperate with these people. You’re the one who funded them. You’re the ones who equipped them. You’re the ones who used them to bring down the Soviet Union by driving them out of Afghanistan. And we are now both in a situation that is highly complex and difficult to extricate ourselves from.” That is how they see it.

And they also have used groups in the past to support their ongoing conflict with India over Kashmir. And when I became Secretary of State, they were trying to basically appease the Pakistani Taliban who were attacking them. So they were trying to draw a distinction between the good terrorists and the bad terrorists, because we had funded the good terrorists together. And so they were dealing with this network of terrorism that had been better organized and directed because of al-Qaida, which brought a lot more funding into the border area between Afghanistan and Pakistan and much more of a sense of mission, because bin Ladin and those who worked with him had a very highly developed idea about how to inflict damage on the United States and others.

http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/09/174877.htm

so given all this, why do you trust us getting involved in other new shit? bring all our troops home. End the dirt we do entirely. Leave the world alone.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

so given all this, why do you trust us getting involved in other new shit? bring all our troops home. End the dirt we do entirely. Leave the world alone.

call me nuts, but its simple

we don't have Ronald Reagan hosting Haqqani, Maulvi Khunis and inviting Hekkmatyar (who declined) in the WHITE HOUSE, ya thats right, people whine about Obama hugging Derrick Bell? well Ron hosted terrorist loyal to Al Qaeda and the Taliban in the white house.

all 3 of these fucks are Taliban supporters and are fighting us now. We had assets in Ahmad Shah Massoud, Abdul Haq and others (some that even came to the white house).

We have become more careful with who we arm now and the big fear now is the forces getting control of the weapons already there (Libya has chemical weapons, egypt nuclear)

The big difference was after the russians left Afghanistan there was a civil war from 19991 to 1996 when the Taliban prevailed. Our money went to the Pakistani ISI backed Taliban proponents until we realized what they were. This is a different story. This is not a middle eastern mujahideen accumulating in one country (unlike 1979-1989 the Arab Spring has opened many fronts). Libya is different it is provinces that united against Gaddafi and now they are settling some scores and trying to figure out who will run shit. We will not allow another Afghanistan to happen, no government like the Taliban will ever rise in these regions.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

so given all this, why do you trust us getting involved in other new shit? bring all our troops home. End the dirt we do entirely. Leave the world alone.

also you need to realize wolf that our troops never fought with the mujaideen in Afghanistan

this was just Reagan being Reagan

Ronald Reagan funded the islamic mujihadeen in Afghanistan, the Contras in Iran, the guy had a track record he was a hawk

that is not Haqqani though, that is a picture with Reagan and Khunis (another Taliban supporter)

while we may not have a picture, we know without a doubt, Haqqani visited the white house.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/14/us-kabul-attack-haqqani-idUSTRE78D1UG20110914

just so you know right know the official policy (probably about to change) in Afghanistan is kill the Haqqani network, negotiate with the Quetta Shura Taliban and don't bother with Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami because they do not hold enough sway and don't really matter. They are an Afghanistan problem not a global world threat problem

It is interesting that the Haqqani network is our big enemy and the most feared of the 3 Taliban factions.

a lot like Moqtad al-Sadr

a strong anti Saddam Hussein cleric who turned into one of the main faction leaders against us in Iraq.

Jalaluddin gained notoriety as an anti-Soviet mujahideen commander in Afghanistan in the 1980s. His bravery and ability to organize mujahideen fighters won him funding and weapons from U.S. and Pakistani intelligence services and Saudi Arabia.

Former U.S. Congressman Charlie Wilson, who fund-raised for the Afghan resistance, once called Jalaluddin "goodness personified." The warrior was held in such high esteem he visited the White House when Ronald Reagan was president.

After the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, Haqqani turned his ferocity and battle skills on Western forces. He earned a top spot on the CIA hit list, along with his old friend Osama bin Laden, whom he met during the anti-Soviet resistance.

Despite ill health, Jalaluddin, who is in his 70s, still inspires Haqqani foot soldiers believed to number up to 4,000, as well as other militant groups who revere him. His son, Siraj, seen as more ruthless, runs the daily affairs of the network

Just a question for all the "leave the wars we don't need to be there"

do you know what year Bin Laden and Zawahiri declared war on the U.S.??



1996

attacked our embassies in 1998, and the U.S. Cole in 2000

we did not start this war, even if you (no one in general) are a moron and believe 9-11 was not pulled off by AQ, the history is there.

the real problem was when the Soviet Union entered Afghanistan in 1979, so did all of our CIA money.

When they left in 1989, so did our CIA assets, we basically left the mujahideen to fight amongst themselves.

Hekmatyar and Haqqani were both defeated by the Taliban and driven out, Haqqani joined them after briefly fighting them, Gulbuddin Hkmattyar joined them after 9-11 invasion .

Paul Fitzgerald and Elizabeth Gould, a journalistic husband-and-wife-team who have reported extensively about Afghanistan, wrote in 2009 about what happened after the CIA left Afghanistan in the late 1980s: "The Afghan people were left to deal with the blowback from the mujahideen fighters who had been supported by the largest publicly known U.S. covert operation since Vietnam. Over the next few years that process would give rise to the Taliban and morph into the threat the U.S. faces today."

U.S. policy there "has been short sighted from the very beginning," Fitzgerald said in an interview. "It's a history of short-sightedness."

The problem is often whom the U.S. picks as its proxies. "I think we have a pretty good track record at picking the worst possible people," Fitzgerald said. "We never pick people who stand for our values."

"Haqqani was one of the instruments that was being used to cause problems for the Soviets in Afghan," Pillar said. "But when the Soviets were gone, both initially from Afghanistan and more broadly with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the equities were changed."

"One can sum that all up by labeling it appropriately as blowback," he added.

"The lesson is: Watch out who your friends are," Coll said. The U.S. "outsourced the politics of the war to the Pakistani ISI and they favored radical Islamist groups with an anti-American agenda. And we accepted that."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/haqqani-network-afghanistan_n_987762.html

Well i've known Al-Qaeda were trained by the CIA for a long time. There is actually video of Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter's national security adviser, in the 70's, basically giving them weapons and a pep talk telling them that their fight is right and god is on their side, to battle the soviets. Still to this day doesn't regret that or see anything wrong with it, just like when NATO sends them into Libya, and now they are "rebels" and the good guys, but if you move a few countries over they are our sworn enemy and we spend trillions of dollars to kill them.

Bird are you actually saying the Shah in Iran was good?

ahh yes knew you couldn't resist taking a shot at me over believing that we might not possibly know the whole truth about the 911 attacks. Not gonna even bother, you are not very open minded to anything that doesn't promote perpetual war and death and cause blow back for us.

I really don't care dude. Vote for Obama, continue the Wars, watch our civil liberties disappear, watch the destruction of our currency as Obama praises Bernanke and the Fed for doing such a great job with the economy, i do not care. You've already gone too far down the propaganda rabbit hole to come back now.
Support the pointless perpetual wars that ... not gonna mention any names here... if you believe actually make us safer, and hasn't driven anti-american sentiment to an all time high around the world and has made us viewed as an imperialist empire, then you are a moron or whatever yea name calling is pointless.

What was even the point of making this thread? You support the establishment, you support the wars, so why prove to yourself that our enemies our created, funded, and almost always previously supported and propped up by our Gov?

Just to take a shot at Reagan?

and Obama is carrying out the same agenda as Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush W. He is just another establishment puppet promoting the same things these other guys did, except it seems far worse to me. No one has had such disrespect for the Constitution and the rule of Law as Obama, W was a close 2nd though. Both war criminals though.

oggy420 wrote:

Well i've known Al-Qaeda were trained by the CIA for a long time. There is actually video of Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Carter's national security adviser, in the 70's, basically giving them weapons and a pep talk telling them that their fight is right and god is on their side, to battle the soviets. Still to this day doesn't regret that or see anything wrong with it, just like when NATO sends them into Libya, and now they are "rebels" and the good guys, but if you move a few countries over they are our sworn enemy and we spend trillions of dollars to kill them.

you have to realize you are confusing the Mujahideen with Al Qaeda

two completely different things. Al Qaeda was formed as a offshoot of MEK which was run by Abdullah Azzam (huge islamic militant) and funded by Bin Laden. In 1988 they formed AQ, Azzam wanted to take the group in a direction that would wage war with Israel, Bin Laden on a direction that would wage war with the USA.

Guess who got blown up? Azzam, Guess who got control of AQ? Bin Laden. saying we armed AL Qaeda in the 70s is historically and factually inaccurate because they did not even exist then. We were arming warlords just as we have in the Afghanistan War of now. Dostum, Fahim, Ahmad Shah Massoud, Gulbuddin Hekmattyat, Doud Daoud, etc, etc. those are an example of the people we funded. Dostum, Fahim, Massoud Daoud Daoud were all our ALLIES.

So if you want to claim we created Al Qaeda, you have to claim that we also created the successful Northern Alliance.

oggy420 wrote:

ahh yes knew you couldn't resist taking a shot at me over believing that we might not possibly know the whole truth about the 911 attacks. Not gonna even bother, you are not very open minded to anything that doesn't promote perpetual war and death and cause blow back for us.

I really don't care dude. Vote for Obama, continue the Wars, watch our civil liberties disappear, watch the destruction of our currency as Obama praises Bernanke and the Fed for doing such a great job with the economy, i do not care. You've already gone too far down the propaganda rabbit hole to come back now.
Support the pointless perpetual wars that ... not gonna mention any names here... if you believe actually make us safer, and hasn't driven anti-american sentiment to an all time high around the world and has made us viewed as an imperialist empire, then you are a moron or whatever yea name calling is pointless.

What was even the point of making this thread? You support the establishment, you support the wars, so why prove to yourself that our enemies our created, funded, and almost always previously supported and propped up by our Gov?

Just to take a shot at Reagan?

so you don't think AQ was responsible for 9-11?

oh don't worry Ludo only reason i post this shit is so I will have someone to talk with it about (oggy), just cause we disagree on shit doesn't mean i don't like hearing his opinion

On 9-11 it is simple. All roads lead to Rome. Clearly there are some pretty big devils in the details but ultimately from a macro it doesn't really matter.

IF the worst 911 conspiracies are true and it was an inside job committed by the US Gov to promote war and nation building in the middle east than it is a result of our horrible Zionist foreign policy.

IF the Israeli Gov committed it to entice us to war in order to help with nation building, than it is still a symptom of our Zionist foreign policy.

IF the CIA or Mossad allowed it to happen, then it is still a symptom of our Zionist foreign policy.

IF AQ ran that game on their own and we really had no hand or prior knowledge on any level, it is still a result of our Zionist foreign policy.


Personally, I imagine there had to be some knowledge in some part of the intelligence community, and they likely allowed it to happen. But even if not, it doesn't matter. A change in our foreign policy stops Islamic extremism from having a voice with the people there. Which stops terrorism from happening. 9-11 was the happiest day of Carl Rove and Donald Rumsfeld's lives.

my conclusion on 911 is that i support the victims family members calling for a new independent investigation, because the 911 commission was a farce and a cover up.

Our Zionist Military Industrial Complex was begging to go into the middle east, you can read the Project for a New American Century written by all the top neo-cons. They literally wrote that they wanted a "new pearl harbor" so that they could start their aggressive foreign intervention in the middle east.

I really don't know exactly what i believe about 911 besides the fact that very advanced explosives were used to demolish all 3 buildings. Beyond that im still researching, recently started watching a documentary called War by Deception which pretty accurately proves Zionists in Israel and the US at the very least had inside information before it all went down and profited from it.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

On 9-11 it is simple. All roads lead to Rome. Clearly there are some pretty big devils in the details but ultimately from a macro it doesn't really matter.

IF the worst 911 conspiracies are true and it was an inside job committed by the US Gov to promote war and nation building in the middle east than it is a result of our horrible Zionist foreign policy.

IF the Israeli Gov committed it to entice us to war in order to help with nation building, than it is still a symptom of our Zionist foreign policy.

IF the CIA or Mossad allowed it to happen, then it is still a symptom of our Zionist foreign policy.

IF AQ ran that game on their own and we really had no hand or prior knowledge on any level, it is still a result of our Zionist foreign policy.


Personally, I imagine there had to be some knowledge in some part of the intelligence community, and they likely allowed it to happen. But even if not, it doesn't matter. A change in our foreign policy stops Islamic extremism from having a voice with the people there. Which stops terrorism from happening. 9-11 was the happiest day of Carl Rove and Donald Rumsfeld's lives.

I give ya credit wolf because after 9-11 there are 3 theories, Inside Job (USA govt did it), Outside Job (Israeldid it) and then there is the AQ.

Personally I go with the latter. We basically followed the money trail and have been able to account for the 19 terrorist who carried out the attacks, we even have Zaarious Massou (arrested in america, prior to 9-11 as a possible terrorist with ties to AQ, we were not allowed to search his laptop until after 9-11), we also have in our custody know Al-Khatani who we somehow miraculously denied entry point in the USA just 20 days before the 9-11 attacks. We picked him up in 2002 with other AQ fighters and he claimed that he was in the country to fly falcons. When we took him to our prisons and I.D.'d him we realized who he was because we already had his prints as he had been denied entry. These are not rare coincidences.

Abu Jandal (Bin Ladens main body guard, captured in 2000) unknowingly identified 15 of the 19 hijackers to the FBI, all declassified through freedom of information act, check it out, after 9-11 and was instrumental in telling us what we mainly know about Al Qaeda as a functioning org. People in our government didnt let this happen, people in our government where actually trying to bring Al Qaeda's threat to the attention of the top of command. The FBI and CIA did not share information on numerous operatives. Great example, the CIA knew that Hani Hanjour was more than likely somewhere in the USA, what they didn't know was who or what his allegiance s were. They just knew they were chasing his alias. The FBI knew exactly who he was, an AQ operative but the FBI was looking for him in Yemen and other areas, people weren't playing on the same teams and sharing information, if they were we possibly could have broken up the plot and the cells in america. You have to realize before 9-11 a lot of people did not believe or didn't want to believe that there were active terrorist cells that had infiltrated america. In reality they were and we know the results.

We have the proof because we have all of the wire transfers that the terrorist cells received while in america, some personally from KSM, they spent over 400,000 dollars while in our country over a 6 month period including trips to Vegas.

Also the main thing IMO that ties AQ to 9-11 is the assassination of Ahmad Shah Massoud on Sept. 9, 2001. THink there isn't a connection? Massoud's northern alliance had been battling the Taliban and muslim extremist, who Massoud himself reffered to as terrorist, since 1996. Al Qaeda operatives disguised as journalist blew him up with a camera bomb 2 days before 9-11. It was a deal sealer between Bin Ladens Al Qaeda and Mullah Omars Taliban. Bin Laden got rid of the Talibans main opposition and the Taliban would support his coming attacks that would surely bring american reprisal. They also knew that Massoud was already our ally in Afghanistan (in reality we ahd sealed a deal Sept. 4, 2001 to fund Massoud against the Taliban and AQ). He was the most famous Afghan commander of the Russian war and the hope was that the Northern Alliance would be in disarray with his death. Fortunately they were able to reform under his right hand man and the Northern and Eastern Alliances were the two main ground armies fighting with american forces after 9-11.

Massoud even knew of a plot that was amidst but no one knew the height or context. April 7, 2001 Massoud told the European Parliament
“If I could say one thing to President Bush, it would be that if he doesn’t take care of what is happening in Afghanistan, the problem will not only hurt the Afghan people but the American people as well.

If President Bush doesn’t help us, these terrorists will damage the US and Europe very soon.” – Ahmed Shah Massoud

In my opinion it is pretty clear what happened on 9-11, a group that had already attacked our embassies in 1998 and our navy in 2000 had finally gotten what they wanted. An attack inside the USA.