New Presidential Poll

oggy420 wrote:

jimbo it's fine if you support Santorum you have every right to. I feel the opposite about him and i would go as far as saying i hope obama would beat him. I wouldn't vote for obama but Santorum scares the shit out of me. I don't trust him for a second with that much power. Just irrational to me. My conscious wouldn't let me vote for a sociopath like that with so much hate in him. The wars are really bad now under obama but under him it would be way worse.

And zigg he said he would have pre-emptively bombed Iran already. A full out war with Iran will include super powers like China and Russia who have already said they will get involved if we attack Iran. China has a gigantic nuclear arsenal. Do you really think it is smart, on top of all of our other problems right now, to have China and the US in a cold war? With the threat of nukes being fired? Am i really the only one here that sees that our foreign policy is creating more enemies than we can afford to kill?

Oggy, I'm not a Santorum supporter, just playing devil's advocate. But, if it came down to Obama vs. Romney, isn't Romney the more conservative candidate, regardless if he doesnt come close to meeting your standards of conservatism? There are plenty of differences between those two candidates.

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

Damn I think Oggy went too far to one extreme that he lost all objectivity.

i suppose i'll try to not be offended by your slanderous tone. Sorry i don't follow party lines.

I really don't think he's wrong Oggy. As much as I enjoy discussions with you, I cannot remember one time where someone said something on here and you said, "you're right I'm wrong, good point, etc" This is my point about conspiracy guys and what guys like Alex Jones have done. People are agenda driven and unwilling to listen to anything besides what proves their point.

I never said i am never wrong. I have always said i believe what i believe but i encourage everyone to think for themselves and make their own conclusions. The truth is, i see things very different from a lot of people on this board, and a lot of people in general are just not comfortable about some of the things i believe or say. I really am not trying to offend anyone. I am open to debating ideas and sometimes lines are crossed and i am guilty of that too, getting over emotional. I can admit that. But i am passionate about many of these things. But i a m not ashamed of what i believe, rather proud actually, and as long as i still have the right of free speech i am going to say what i truly feel.

As for conspiracy theories, you honestly dont give them a fair shake. You write off conspiracy theorists like they are the scum of the earth. I disagree with you strongly on this because infact many government conspiracy theories have been proven right, are declassified and admitted. If you really need me to list examples such as operation Northwoods, Operation Fast and Furious, Iran Contra, and so on that is not a problem. Are they taken too far sometimes? of course. But that is not a reason to give in to the stigma that conspiracies are paranoid crazy lies all the time. It is my opinion that the people of this country have become way too complacent with ever growing socialist government that undermines liberty and breeds an environment of fear and hate for one another. I believe in the philosophy of Liberty which brings people together, the ideas that our country was founded on. I believe in the constitution. If that means im crazy and have gone to the extreme, then i don't want to be sane or normal.

jimbojones1950 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

jimbo it's fine if you support Santorum you have every right to. I feel the opposite about him and i would go as far as saying i hope obama would beat him. I wouldn't vote for obama but Santorum scares the shit out of me. I don't trust him for a second with that much power. Just irrational to me. My conscious wouldn't let me vote for a sociopath like that with so much hate in him. The wars are really bad now under obama but under him it would be way worse.

And zigg he said he would have pre-emptively bombed Iran already. A full out war with Iran will include super powers like China and Russia who have already said they will get involved if we attack Iran. China has a gigantic nuclear arsenal. Do you really think it is smart, on top of all of our other problems right now, to have China and the US in a cold war? With the threat of nukes being fired? Am i really the only one here that sees that our foreign policy is creating more enemies than we can afford to kill?

Oggy, I'm not a Santorum supporter, just playing devil's advocate. But, if it came down to Obama vs. Romney, isn't Romney the more conservative candidate, regardless if he doesnt come close to meeting your standards of conservatism? There are plenty of differences between those two candidates.

can you point some of them out for me? Because all i see is that they are both big government, both for the wars, both supported the economic stimulus packages as a way to fix the recession, supported TARP, everyone knows Romney wrote ObamaCare... where exactly are these glaring differences?

oggy420 wrote:

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

Damn I think Oggy went too far to one extreme that he lost all objectivity.

i suppose i'll try to not be offended by your slanderous tone. Sorry i don't follow party lines.

I really don't think he's wrong Oggy. As much as I enjoy discussions with you, I cannot remember one time where someone said something on here and you said, "you're right I'm wrong, good point, etc" This is my point about conspiracy guys and what guys like Alex Jones have done. People are agenda driven and unwilling to listen to anything besides what proves their point.

I never said i am never wrong. I have always said i believe what i believe but i encourage everyone to think for themselves and make their own conclusions. The truth is, i see things very different from a lot of people on this board, and a lot of people in general are just not comfortable about some of the things i believe or say. I really am not trying to offend anyone. I am open to debating ideas and sometimes lines are crossed and i am guilty of that too, getting over emotional. I can admit that. But i am passionate about many of these things. But i a m not ashamed of what i believe, rather proud actually, and as long as i still have the right of free speech i am going to say what i truly feel.

As for conspiracy theories, you honestly dont give them a fair shake. You write off conspiracy theorists like they are the scum of the earth. I disagree with you strongly on this because infact many government conspiracy theories have been proven right, are declassified and admitted. If you really need me to list examples such as operation Northwoods, Operation Fast and Furious, Iran Contra, and so on that is not a problem. Are they taken too far sometimes? of course. But that is not a reason to give in to the stigma that conspiracies are paranoid crazy lies all the time. It is my opinion that the people of this country have become way too complacent with ever growing socialist government that undermines liberty and breeds an environment of fear and hate for one another. I believe in the philosophy of Liberty which brings people together, the ideas that our country was founded on. I believe in the constitution. If that means im crazy and have gone to the extreme, then i don't want to be sane or normal.

I have no issue with you or your opinions, just saying what I see.

That is where you are completely wrong. There is not one conspiracy that I'll discuss that I have looked at both sides of and very few that I say I know what happened. That's my point Oggy, conspiracy guys become married to the idea and refuse to listen to "facts", why are there 3 versions of Loose Change? Because they change shit everytime there are hard facts and what do they do? Dismiss them. I just sick of it. I like to discuss/debate things, conspiracy guys usually like to scream there points with earplugs in.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but one thing I would love to hear from a conspiracy guy is when was the last time that something actually happened the way we were told? Bin Laden, Kennedy, 9-11, Lincoln? Has anything ever jsut happened or is everything a conspiracy?

just the fact that the NDAA, a bill which delares America as a battlefield, authorizes indefinite detainment of American citizens who can be thrown into Guantanamo Bay or another secret CIA military prison in some third world country and denied due process for the rest of their life, was passed and people aren't in an outrage, proves that there is something deeply wrong with this country.

We have given the power to the government to assassinate, torture, and indefinitely detain our own people without a warrant or trial. They are the judge, jury, and executioner. But if i bring this up i am a paranoid conspiracy theorist. If i bring up that the ATF was caught shipping our guns to mexican drug cartels to start violence on the border and pass gun-control laws here in the states, im a conspiracy theorist. O well i can't fight what i am. I prefer the truth over politically correct packaged lies that get regurgitated over and over again. Sorry.

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

Damn I think Oggy went too far to one extreme that he lost all objectivity.

i suppose i'll try to not be offended by your slanderous tone. Sorry i don't follow party lines.

I really don't think he's wrong Oggy. As much as I enjoy discussions with you, I cannot remember one time where someone said something on here and you said, "you're right I'm wrong, good point, etc" This is my point about conspiracy guys and what guys like Alex Jones have done. People are agenda driven and unwilling to listen to anything besides what proves their point.

I never said i am never wrong. I have always said i believe what i believe but i encourage everyone to think for themselves and make their own conclusions. The truth is, i see things very different from a lot of people on this board, and a lot of people in general are just not comfortable about some of the things i believe or say. I really am not trying to offend anyone. I am open to debating ideas and sometimes lines are crossed and i am guilty of that too, getting over emotional. I can admit that. But i am passionate about many of these things. But i a m not ashamed of what i believe, rather proud actually, and as long as i still have the right of free speech i am going to say what i truly feel.

As for conspiracy theories, you honestly dont give them a fair shake. You write off conspiracy theorists like they are the scum of the earth. I disagree with you strongly on this because infact many government conspiracy theories have been proven right, are declassified and admitted. If you really need me to list examples such as operation Northwoods, Operation Fast and Furious, Iran Contra, and so on that is not a problem. Are they taken too far sometimes? of course. But that is not a reason to give in to the stigma that conspiracies are paranoid crazy lies all the time. It is my opinion that the people of this country have become way too complacent with ever growing socialist government that undermines liberty and breeds an environment of fear and hate for one another. I believe in the philosophy of Liberty which brings people together, the ideas that our country was founded on. I believe in the constitution. If that means im crazy and have gone to the extreme, then i don't want to be sane or normal.

I have no issue with you or your opinions, just saying what I see.

That is where you are completely wrong. There is not one conspiracy that I'll discuss that I have looked at both sides of and very few that I say I know what happened. That's my point Oggy, conspiracy guys become married to the idea and refuse to listen to "facts", why are there 3 versions of Loose Change? Because they change shit everytime there are hard facts and what do they do? Dismiss them. I just sick of it. I like to discuss/debate things, conspiracy guys usually like to scream there points with earplugs in.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but one thing I would love to hear from a conspiracy guy is when was the last time that something actually happened the way we were told? Bin Laden, Kennedy, 9-11, Lincoln? Has anything ever jsut happened or is everything a conspiracy?

Zigg do you really want to have this debate again? why is there 3 versions of loose change? Because as years went on more and more info was released about the terrorists, the explosions in the buildings, and other details that were being kept classified by the government. I do not support all the views in loose change, but i dont have to to understand that there are legitimate points made in the movie?
More important to me than why there were 3 versions of a film is why there were so many different theories, by the Feds and popular mechanics, none that seem to stick, about how the towers, and of course building 7 actually came down in the fashion they did.

I don not speak in absolutes when it comes to 9/11. I just say that i support the victims family members in having their questions answered and supporting a new investigation because clearly the 911 commission report failed to answer a lot of important questions that need to be answered.

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

Ziggy116 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

Damn I think Oggy went too far to one extreme that he lost all objectivity.

i suppose i'll try to not be offended by your slanderous tone. Sorry i don't follow party lines.

I really don't think he's wrong Oggy. As much as I enjoy discussions with you, I cannot remember one time where someone said something on here and you said, "you're right I'm wrong, good point, etc" This is my point about conspiracy guys and what guys like Alex Jones have done. People are agenda driven and unwilling to listen to anything besides what proves their point.

I never said i am never wrong. I have always said i believe what i believe but i encourage everyone to think for themselves and make their own conclusions. The truth is, i see things very different from a lot of people on this board, and a lot of people in general are just not comfortable about some of the things i believe or say. I really am not trying to offend anyone. I am open to debating ideas and sometimes lines are crossed and i am guilty of that too, getting over emotional. I can admit that. But i am passionate about many of these things. But i a m not ashamed of what i believe, rather proud actually, and as long as i still have the right of free speech i am going to say what i truly feel.

As for conspiracy theories, you honestly dont give them a fair shake. You write off conspiracy theorists like they are the scum of the earth. I disagree with you strongly on this because infact many government conspiracy theories have been proven right, are declassified and admitted. If you really need me to list examples such as operation Northwoods, Operation Fast and Furious, Iran Contra, and so on that is not a problem. Are they taken too far sometimes? of course. But that is not a reason to give in to the stigma that conspiracies are paranoid crazy lies all the time. It is my opinion that the people of this country have become way too complacent with ever growing socialist government that undermines liberty and breeds an environment of fear and hate for one another. I believe in the philosophy of Liberty which brings people together, the ideas that our country was founded on. I believe in the constitution. If that means im crazy and have gone to the extreme, then i don't want to be sane or normal.

I have no issue with you or your opinions, just saying what I see.

That is where you are completely wrong. There is not one conspiracy that I'll discuss that I have looked at both sides of and very few that I say I know what happened. That's my point Oggy, conspiracy guys become married to the idea and refuse to listen to "facts", why are there 3 versions of Loose Change? Because they change shit everytime there are hard facts and what do they do? Dismiss them. I just sick of it. I like to discuss/debate things, conspiracy guys usually like to scream there points with earplugs in.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but one thing I would love to hear from a conspiracy guy is when was the last time that something actually happened the way we were told? Bin Laden, Kennedy, 9-11, Lincoln? Has anything ever jsut happened or is everything a conspiracy?

Zigg do you believe there was no conspiracy at all in the kennedy assassination? Really?

oggy420 wrote:

jimbojones1950 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

jimbo it's fine if you support Santorum you have every right to. I feel the opposite about him and i would go as far as saying i hope obama would beat him. I wouldn't vote for obama but Santorum scares the shit out of me. I don't trust him for a second with that much power. Just irrational to me. My conscious wouldn't let me vote for a sociopath like that with so much hate in him. The wars are really bad now under obama but under him it would be way worse.

And zigg he said he would have pre-emptively bombed Iran already. A full out war with Iran will include super powers like China and Russia who have already said they will get involved if we attack Iran. China has a gigantic nuclear arsenal. Do you really think it is smart, on top of all of our other problems right now, to have China and the US in a cold war? With the threat of nukes being fired? Am i really the only one here that sees that our foreign policy is creating more enemies than we can afford to kill?

Oggy, I'm not a Santorum supporter, just playing devil's advocate. But, if it came down to Obama vs. Romney, isn't Romney the more conservative candidate, regardless if he doesnt come close to meeting your standards of conservatism? There are plenty of differences between those two candidates.

can you point some of them out for me? Because all i see is that they are both big government, both for the wars, both supported the economic stimulus packages as a way to fix the recession, supported TARP, everyone knows Romney wrote ObamaCare... where exactly are these glaring differences?

I think you are over simplifying his positions and as such, without a Paul nomination, are willing to let statism come to this country more rapidly under Obama. A major difference is their positions on taxation. Another difference is in welfare reform. Another difference is in the regulatory power of the EPA. They differ on their approach to regulations for small and large businesses that dissuade foreign companies from investing and setting up shop here. They differ on whether or not to place a regulatory cap on all federal agencies. They also disagree on how to deal with China's manipulation of currency, among other issues. I agree that Romney has problems if he is the nomination because of Romney care, but there are other issues. I also acknowledge that Romney is not a "true conservative," but he is far closer to conservatism then Obama, and abstaining from voting because you disagree with him on some issues seems short sighted to me, especially considering the alternative.

oggy420 wrote:

just the fact that the NDAA, a bill which delares America as a battlefield, authorizes indefinite detainment of American citizens who can be thrown into Guantanamo Bay or another secret CIA military prison in some third world country and denied due process for the rest of their life, was passed and people aren't in an outrage, proves that there is something deeply wrong with this country.

We have given the power to the government to assassinate, torture, and indefinitely detain our own people without a warrant or trial. They are the judge, jury, and executioner. But if i bring this up i am a paranoid conspiracy theorist. If i bring up that the ATF was caught shipping our guns to mexican drug cartels to start violence on the border and pass gun-control laws here in the states, im a conspiracy theorist. O well i can't fight what i am. I prefer the truth over politically correct packaged lies that get regurgitated over and over again. Sorry.

Exactly, you bring up something I have never defnded and give me a sarcastic answer to it. Do you really think that I agree with NDAA? When have I ever stated that? You're making my point Oggy

zigg i was pointing out that i get incorrectly labeled as a crazy conspiracy theorist for pointing out true conspiracies and corruption or in this case ridiculous unconstitutional legislation.

and i wasn't trying to insinuate that you would agree with that bill. I am saying i got labeled as crazy for pointing things like this out and i don't think that is fair.

jimbojones1950 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

jimbojones1950 wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

jimbo it's fine if you support Santorum you have every right to. I feel the opposite about him and i would go as far as saying i hope obama would beat him. I wouldn't vote for obama but Santorum scares the shit out of me. I don't trust him for a second with that much power. Just irrational to me. My conscious wouldn't let me vote for a sociopath like that with so much hate in him. The wars are really bad now under obama but under him it would be way worse.

And zigg he said he would have pre-emptively bombed Iran already. A full out war with Iran will include super powers like China and Russia who have already said they will get involved if we attack Iran. China has a gigantic nuclear arsenal. Do you really think it is smart, on top of all of our other problems right now, to have China and the US in a cold war? With the threat of nukes being fired? Am i really the only one here that sees that our foreign policy is creating more enemies than we can afford to kill?

Oggy, I'm not a Santorum supporter, just playing devil's advocate. But, if it came down to Obama vs. Romney, isn't Romney the more conservative candidate, regardless if he doesnt come close to meeting your standards of conservatism? There are plenty of differences between those two candidates.

can you point some of them out for me? Because all i see is that they are both big government, both for the wars, both supported the economic stimulus packages as a way to fix the recession, supported TARP, everyone knows Romney wrote ObamaCare... where exactly are these glaring differences?

I think you are over simplifying his positions and as such, without a Paul nomination, are willing to let statism come to this country more rapidly under Obama. A major difference is their positions on taxation. Another difference is in welfare reform. Another difference is in the regulatory power of the EPA. They differ on their approach to regulations for small and large businesses that dissuade foreign companies from investing and setting up shop here. They differ on whether or not to place a regulatory cap on all federal agencies. They also disagree on how to deal with China's manipulation of currency, among other issues. I agree that Romney has problems if he is the nomination because of Romney care, but there are other issues. I also acknowledge that Romney is not a "true conservative," but he is far closer to conservatism then Obama, and abstaining from voting because you disagree with him on some issues seems short sighted to me, especially considering the alternative.

it is your opinion that statism will come to this country more rapidly with Obama. My opinion is that we are getting more statism no matter who gets in. Romney isn't conservative on the issues that matter most to me. The budget, the wars, civil liberties. he doesn't make the cut. And all those nice things you listed that you seem to think Romney is actually gonna be different from Obama on, is unfortunately just empty talk, just like when Obama came in and said he was going to be the peace candidate and everyone thought he was the opposite of George Bush. Thats why he got elected. But just like Romney, his voting record did not match his big talk, bush's policies continued and were expanded, and the same policies will continue regardless of whether it's Romney or Obama now. Big overspending government is still big overspending government regardless if it's a democrat or republican in charge.

I was using JFK as an example to a question that of course wasn't answered. It may have been, but most conspiracy theorists actually use the movie to back up that it was a conspiracy. As far as 9-11 goes, I've looked at both sides a lot and it's easier for me to believe that 19 lunatics did this as opposed to a cover up that would involve thousands of people that all kept their mouth shut.
Maybe that's why the NDAA came to, then they can send all of the people from flight 93 to Guantanamo so they never talk. Since their phone calls were faked and that plane never went down of course. That's probably where the other plane actually landed since a missle hit the pentagon and not a plane too.

See why it's hard for me to believe a 9-11 conspiracy? That's without having to go over 7.

zigg im not gonn a try to change your mind. If you feel confident that you have looked at enough evidence and feel comfortable with your conclusion, go with it.

Oggy would you ever consider voting for a guy like Dennis Kucinich or Ralph Nader. They are not fiscally conservative by any means but they fall right in line with your views on certain issues like civil liberties and foreign policy.

i like justin amash from michigan

and chris lytle for senate

Dennis Kucinich is the shit. Only guy that is better than Ron Paul for real.

yea... im gonna say that i'll have a hard time voting for this guy

oggy420 wrote:

yea... im gonna say that i'll have a hard time voting for this guy

Yeah, how hateable is he???

OU wrote:

http://screen.yahoo.com/yahoo-news-funny-or-die-gop-cyber-debate-27797158.html

Obama's rebuttal is way better.

http://screen.yahoo.com/obama-s-sexy-rebuttal-27797145.html

Andy Borowitz
@BorowitzReport
Saw Herman Cain on TV giving this advice to Mitt Romney: "You're the frontrunner now. Get all the pussy you can."


Retweeted by Joe Rogan

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I like the look of Romney, I'd feel confident having him staredown Putin.