Dana on recent cuts/Golden Glory relationship

Just messin, too easy.

I know i set myself up haha

bobbitt15 wrote:

Quote :: Comment From Dominic from Chicago
Marloes just released a copy of her pay check from Zuffa and it's made out to her directly.

Quote :: Which is basically irrelevant, as it only contradicts Dana White's poorly-chosen half-truth. Refuting non-facts doesn't constitute truth. Of course Zuffa make checks out to her; they have to if they're fighting in an athletic commission.

Marlos and Reem being paid directly for there first fights under Zuffa is irrelevant but if they prove that SF was paying them directly the whole time they faught for them it proves that GG pay policy excuse from Dana is bullshit.

Pointing out the half-truths Dana was caught up on is irrelevant, we must always accept what he says as truth. That is our Zuffa way.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/c94mag
Bas Rutten (@BasRuttenMMA)

Some will ask, “Why does GG do business like this?” Well, it’s for their
own protection of course, but it probably started because some checks
from Japan started to bounce from some organizations. And if they didn’t
bounce, the fighters would be able to get them cashed 6 or 8 weeks
later. Since fighters want their money right away, and GG loves their
fighters, they said “No problem, we pay the fighters from our OWN money,
pay their trainers and sparring partners, and then when the money comes
in, we simply deduct everything from the check that is paid, this way
everybody get’s paid”.
I know for a fact, 100% true, that they STILL need to get money from
some organizations. The fighters got paid, but GG didn’t because they
paid the fighters out of their own money. And some people say that they
are crooks? Please explain this to me, who else, what management, give
me one name, does this?

As a fighter, this would be something really cool, but even more for the
trainers, because, ask trainers how many times they get paid by their
fighters? You will be amazed with how many do NOT. I know fighters who
became World champion in big organizations, even the UFC, and they
never, yes, you read this good, NEVER, paid their trainer (OK, I might
be wrong 1 or 2 times from the at least 10 or 15 times, but I am pretty
sure I am not wrong). It sickens me and I would love to mention names,
but out of respect of their coaches, I won’t. I hope those fighters read
this, so they know that I know.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/c94mag

Much more from Bas on this whole situation.

OU wrote:: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/c94mag

Bas Rutten wrote:: Many people have been asking MY view on what happened with StrikeForce and Golden Glory. Finally, after hearing from the fans and fighters involved, I thought to write what I though.

First thing we heard was: “Dana said that it was the problem from GG management, that they don’t want the checks directly to go to the fighters”. But then there is suddenly a picture from Marloes Coenen’s check on the Internet with her name on it, a check that she cashed herself.

Some will ask, “Why does GG do business like this?” Well, it’s for their own protection of course, but it probably started because some checks from Japan started to bounce from some organizations. And if they didn’t bounce, the fighters would be able to get them cashed 6 or 8 weeks later. Since fighters want their money right away, and GG loves their fighters, they said “No problem, we pay the fighters from our OWN money, pay their trainers and sparring partners, and then when the money comes in, we simply deduct everything from the check that is paid, this way everybody get’s paid”.
I know for a fact, 100% true, that they STILL need to get money from some organizations. The fighters got paid, but GG didn’t because they paid the fighters out of their own money. And some people say that they are crooks? Please explain this to me, who else, what management, give me one name, does this?

As a fighter, this would be something really cool, but even more for the trainers, because, ask trainers how many times they get paid by their fighters? You will be amazed with how many do NOT. I know fighters who became World champion in big organizations, even the UFC, and they never, yes, you read this good, NEVER, paid their trainer (OK, I might be wrong 1 or 2 times from the at least 10 or 15 times, but I am pretty sure I am not wrong). It sickens me and I would love to mention names, but out of respect of their coaches, I won’t. I hope those fighters read this, so they know that I know.

Anyway, these problems don’t exist at GG, at least not when the management is taking care of this.

So we know now why GG does this. And of course when GG heard that the UFC wanted to pay their fighters directly, and that they otherwise didn’t want to do business, GG right away said “OK, no problem”. And that’s why you saw that check from Marloes Coenen popping up.

So what is the real reason then that they let the fighters go?
Well, because we don’t have an answer now, I started speculating and thinking about everything, that’s something you do when you don’t have answers.

The truth is, I don't exactly know, but what I DO know is that Alistair Overeem was in a beautiful spot. When he would win the tournament, his contract would be over and that would put him in a really good spot.

That's about the same situation as I had in Pancrase. I had ONE more fight on the contract, and Pancrase waited for that moment and then put Funaki against me. They thought: "Funaki beat him before, he will do it again, and when that happens, we have Bas in a perfect position for the new contract".

But, that all fell through because I beat Funaki, and now I, not them, was holding the power to negotiate.

Similar position for Alistair, IF he would win his last fight on the contract of course.

You heard from Alistair that he went into the Werdum fight with an injury, and that Scott Coker knew this and told Alistair he HAD to fight, and if he would do that for him, he would give him time to "heal up" after the Werdum fight. "No worries, late fall is gonna be the finals", is what was said to Alistair, his trainer and management

Now, they suddenly changed the date, I believe it was because it fell on the same day as another event, but whatever the reason was (it doesn't really matter), Alistair was promised late fall, NOT early September.

Oh, and for people who wondered about this: why didn't Alistair tell the people he was injured right after his "not Alistair like" performance against Werdum? Because then the people could have understood why he was "off", right?

The reason of that is that Alistair hates people who look for excuses. He even said that Remy Bonjanski deserved an Oscar after he complained about a fight he lost; he also had hard words for Badr Hari when he complained why he lost against Alistair. So the last thing that Alistair wants to do, is be like the guys who he said looked for excuses. Otherwise people are gonna say “He’s complaining about those people, but he’s exactly the same!”

Now, the Big Foot fight, is probably the most important fight in his career, you don't think that he wants to be without injuries before he fights a guy like that?
Especially after fighting with an injury and not able to perform as usual. (he could have lost the fight against Werdum because of it).

And talking about injuries, why didn't StrikeForce ask for his medicals? Could it be because they already knew he was injured? Or did they simply want to get him out of that "Golden contract" that he had? I really don’t know what the reason is, but tell me, could it be something else? Because to me, it all looks weird, and you start getting those conspiracy theory's.

Like, could it be that during all the stress of selling the company, StrikeForce didn't realize what they were doing when making this, for Alistair really good, contract?

Or didn't it matter because they were selling the company anyway?

Because the fact that Alistair IS the StrikeForce heavyweight Champion (and only person in the world who holds a K1 World title and not 1, but 2 different MMA World titles), and that he DOES have a legitimate reason not to fight (X Rays plus letters from Doctors), makes me really wonder why they let him go.

And then, (if that's not weird enough), the next week they suddenly let the rest of GG go, Valentijn Overeem, OK, I expected that, he simply didn't fight, but Jon Olav Einemo (who they, by the way, also paid personally) was UFC and not StrikeForce. And Marloes Coenen after losing only her last fight, which was a World title fight they let her go!?

“They don’t like the management from GG”, is what I have been tweeted by MANY fans, and you know what? It really starts to look like this now.

But, then some of you will say, "Kharitanov is still there, they didn't fire him and he is also GG". Yes, that's true, but that could be true because otherwise everybody would have known 100% that it’s a "powerplay", (that’s what they call it on the internet).

Now we simply never "really know" what went on, all we can do is speculate and making conspiracy theories.

But, whatever the reasons are, the fans lose in this situation. Because the chances that Alistair is going to fight in the UFC now, are slim, and I don't know about you, but I would have loved to see Alistair versus Jr Dos Santos, two top strikers in an MMA match, hell yeah!

So let’s hope it get’s fixed!

Oh, last thing, just so that you know, because people also made their own stories about this in the past.
When Alistair won the SF belt he didn't have contract with SF. SF didn't offer Alistair a contract or fight from Nov 2007 until May of 2009 when they had secured the Showtime deal. This is why he never defended his belt throughout that time. They didn't have the money to pay him or the opponents for him to fight. Look for yourself; look at the heavyweight fights SF had between those dates? Was Alistair supposed to fight Paul Buentello over and over again?

i heart Bas...

for all u fucks saying he never defended the belt please read the last paragraph... thank u very much

i dont remeber quite clearly but didnt bas say a couple of months ago on inside mma how many mma writers and experts out there no longer have fedor as #1 in the goat list and he agrees with them

throwdownfight1 wrote:: i dont remeber quite clearly but didnt bas say a couple of months ago on inside mma how many mma writers and experts out there no longer have fedor as #1 in the goat list and he agrees with them

lol what does that have to do with anything in this thread?

Dave Meltzer also had some analysis of the situation in the latest Wrestling Observer (subscription required):

Details of exactly what happened are not clear, but Bas Boon at Golden Glory apparently figured that Alistair Overeem had a lot of leverage as Strikeforce heavyweight champion and the biggest star left and favorite to win the Grand Prix tournament and was making demands when it came to negotiations for a new deal. Those included wanting a PPV percentage and to be moved to the UFC side.
...
Problems between the two sides started when Overeem's management, Bas Boon and Golden Glory, and Overeem himself would not agree for him to fight on 9/10 against Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva in the semifinals of the tournament. Overeem had said that he did not have time for a complete training camp after taking time off after his win over Fabricio Werdum, to heal the broken toe. He agreed to the fight but asked that it be delayed a few weeks.

Showtime, which broadcasts all Strikeforce events, did not have an open date for October, between their own commitments to boxing, three Saturday's where UFC already had shows booked and not wanting to run the tournament semifinals against a potential World Series game.

But others have said Overeem's management were negotiating involving that date if certain unnamed demands were met, which led to Zuffa officials being upset when Overeem went public with the story in an interview with Ariel Helwani, blaming his not wanting to fight on that date due to his injury. Overeem at the time only mentioned a broken toe. Over this past weekend, Overeem put on the Internet an X-ray report showing the rib fracture. Still, those in Zuffa when talking about how the negotiations were going down, said the injury talk was disingenuous because they were making demands and were agreeable of him to fight if the demands were met. Plus, Overeem was booked by Golden Glory as the headliner on their own show in October in Moscow, Russia.

Overeem (35-11, 1 no contest) had one fight remaining on his contract. Had he taken the fight and beaten Silva, it would have given him a lot more leverage in negotiating a new deal since it would make the tournament look bad if someone worked his way into the finals and was champion was taken out over a financial dispute. But even then Zuffa would not have agreed to what they believed was a bad financial deal.

So what we've got is a classic failure to communicate. Golden Glory thought they had more leverage than they did and Lorenzo Fertitta, the man running Strikeforce now, didn't want to put up with their crap.

Overeem and camp thought they had to power to pull a bitch move and try to renege on his contract and they lost

killerofchicken wrote:: i heart Bas...

for all u fucks saying he never defended the belt please read the last paragraph... thank u very much

Lol, you mean literally everyone in the MMA community? Man I love how Alistair's history is being rewritten simply because he started to become a bigger star

With winners come losers and if this is Zuffa being a winner that make losers out of a lot more than Reem and GG, but maybe not you.

Would you say Reem should of been fighting Albondgo Humphrey and Maurice Smith instead of the 13 fights he did have? SF had less than 8 total HW fights between Reem winning the belt and Werdum competing for SF with only one of them involving a top 20 fighter. For being so staunchly behind business, what was wrong with Reem's business decisions to keep fighting while SF was building it's stable up?

I don't have a problem with his decision. I don't have a problem with him fighting in K-1 and Japan now instead of choosing to be an exclusive MMA fighter who fights the best in the world

Point remains that Alistair Overeem + SF heavyweight title was a running MMA punchline for an extremely long time, but apparently since everyone is anti-Zuffa now that is totally forgotten and only those who love the UFC were saying such things at the time

That's pretty much all I have to say on it though. This board has devolved into a stupid back and forth about Zuffa ruining the sport where no one is changing any opinions and I've just kind of grown tired of it. More into breaking down and discussing fights

I agree that this Zuffa fanboy vs MMA fan shit is getting old. I will never understand your side of the argument.

Quote :: "We just want to be able to produce great fighters and create great fights for the fans," Boon said in the statement. "We have no intention for co-promotion deals and are even willing to make an exclusive deal for Alistair Overeem to fight in the UFC, if the terms are right."

Quote :: "The payment was done how the UFC wanted," Boon said in the statement. "I do not understand why Danna [sic] claims we did not agree? We did not have a choice and never said we would not fight in the future or that we would refuse to work like this in the future (we worked out that problem with the Zuffa lawyer in the Vancouver and even agreed with their new sponsor policies). Maybe there is a miscommunication and Dana [sic] was not well informed that the direct payment issue was solved and no longer an issue."

Bas Booon, GG

killerofchicken wrote:

Quote :: "We just want to be able to produce great fighters and create great fights for the fans," Boon said in the statement. "We have no intention for co-promotion deals and are even willing to make an exclusive deal for Alistair Overeem to fight in the UFC, if the terms are right."

Quote :: "The payment was done how the UFC wanted," Boon said in the statement. "I do not understand why Danna [sic] claims we did not agree? We did not have a choice and never said we would not fight in the future or that we would refuse to work like this in the future (we worked out that problem with the Zuffa lawyer in the Vancouver and even agreed with their new sponsor policies). Maybe there is a miscommunication and Dana [sic] was not well informed that the direct payment issue was solved and no longer an issue."

Bas Booon, GG

Like Sands through an hourglass, these are the days of our lives.

Guest

Golden Glory Says Alistair Overeem Would Sign a UFC-Only Deal

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/08/11/golden-glory-says-alistair-overeem-would-sign-a-ufc-only-deal/

Despite the rancor between Golden Glory and the UFC, which resulted in several of the Dutch promotion's fighters being released from their Zuffa contracts, top Golden Glory star Alistair Overeem is still interested in signing an exclusive deal with the UFC.

That is one of the revelations in a statement that Golden Glory co-owner Bas Boon released on Thursday.

"We just want to be able to produce great fighters and create great fights for the fans," Boon said in the statement. "We have no intention for co-promotion deals and are even willing to make an exclusive deal for Alistair Overeem to fight in the UFC, if the terms are right."

what's with this board, we get some good heated debate over a very worthwhile topic, and dudes want out?

I mean I guess I can understand bobbit and LA wanting out, their arguments have held up like a sand castle on the north shore, but OU too?

Im a little disappointed in u guys.

freakzilla wrote:: Golden Glory Says Alistair Overeem Would Sign a UFC-Only Deal

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/08/11/golden-glory-says-alistair-overeem-would-sign-a-ufc-only-deal/

Despite the rancor between Golden Glory and the UFC, which resulted in several of the Dutch promotion's fighters being released from their Zuffa contracts, top Golden Glory star Alistair Overeem is still interested in signing an exclusive deal with the UFC.

That is one of the revelations in a statement that Golden Glory co-owner Bas Boon released on Thursday.

"We just want to be able to produce great fighters and create great fights for the fans," Boon said in the statement. "We have no intention for co-promotion deals and are even willing to make an exclusive deal for Alistair Overeem to fight in the UFC, if the terms are right."

The ole "if the terms are right" stipulation.

I tend to think Reem has the leverage here.

Yes the world scene is thin, but he would provide legitimacy to any org that brought him in. And someone has $$$ out there. I'd think the UFC would want to nip that action at the bud.

I'd love the right terms to be "Alister still fights K-1 Kickboxing". I've never liked the idea of 'you can never compete in another sport' aspect of business.

captain organic wrote:: what's with this board, we get some good heated debate over a very worthwhile topic, and dudes want out?

I mean I guess I can understand bobbit and LA wanting out, their arguments have held up like a sand castle on the north shore, but OU too?

Im a little disappointed in u guys.

I think the subject will be around for awhile, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. We may say we want out but I think naturally it will keep popping up. Just look at it as a breather between rounds. Too many things tie into this subject for it to just go away.

» Golden Glory announces 8 man WW tournament, interesting participants
» Recent UFC cuts make more sense, expect more.
» Marloes Coenen Disses Alistair Overeem, Defends Golden Glory
» Alistair Overeem no longer with Golden Glory
» Siyar Bahadurzada leaves Golden Glory