Dana on recent cuts/Golden Glory relationship

http://www.mmafighting.com/2011/08/04/dana-white-details-split-with-alistair-overeem-golden-glory-fig/

Quote :

PHILADELPHIA -- In the end, Dana White says, the split between the UFC, Strikeforce and its Golden Glory fighters came down to business issues.

Reigning Strikeforce heavyweight champ Alistair Overeem along with fellow Strikeforce fighters Valentijn Overeem and Marloes Coenen and UFC heavyweight Jon Olav Einemo were cut during the last week in a surprising development. Questions arose over what precipitated the move.

On Thursday, UFC president Dana White spoke about the issues that led to the split.

"This is actually a pretty simple explanation," he said. "If you look back throughout history, we haven't had any Golden Glory guys fight with us since Semmy Schilt, right? And the reason is we have very different business practices. It's tough to do business with them. The bottom line is the way they do business is, you have to pay them, not the fighters. We don't work that way. It's not the way we do business. It's not how it works in the United States with the athletic commissions. You don't pay the managers and the managers pay the fighters. You pay the fighters and the fighters pay the managers."

White went on to say that while they had previously honored existing Strikeforce deals, it became apparent Golden Glory management wouldn't change their long-held practices.

"They won't do it," he said. "We have to pay them, not the fighters."

While White said when they brought in Einemo, Golden Glory gave in to Zuffa's request, it was apparently a onetime only change. Asked if for example, Zuffa would bring back Coenen if they once again played by Zuffa's rules, White shook his head.

"They don't and they won't," he said.

The only existing Golden Glory fighter to remain on the Zuffa payroll is Strikeforce heavyweight Sergei Kharitonov, who remains in the Heavyweight Grand Prix and is expected to fight in September. Zuffa sources said because Einemo, Valentijn Overeem and Coenen had all lost, they could be cut. They chose to honor their existing deal with Kharitonov, but are paying him directly. If he loses, he would likely be cut.

White said Golden Glory should have no issues doing things their way in other foreign promotions, but as long as they deal with U.S. athletic commissions, Zuffa can only handle business one way.

"The reality is, we're trying to work out deals with these guys and they won't do it," White said. "They said you absolutely can't pay the fighters, you have to pay us. And it's pretty simple to look back and see that the last guy who fought in UFC was Semmy Schilt. There was a reason for that

I think that's fair enough then.

Why do fighters fight under Golden Glory if it's such a bum deal and why have they been doing so for so long (over 10 years)?

Hope these guys drop there management as well as fedor and fight for themselves . Something tells me this is why fedor got cut as well because dana wont put up with M1 for a second. Dana is making a point if you want to fight for the ufc be ready to accept your check directly. Fair enough to me.

Screw the three losses fedor is still a game opponent by all means.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Why do fighters fight under Golden Glory if it's such a bum deal and why have they been doing so for so long (over 10 years)?

May not be a bum deal, but its also certainly the UFC's choice as a corporation in how to do business and pay fighters directly rather than paying management and nothing to get "ehfiehf Fuck Zuffa fdgjio" rant mode about

Dana is saying if you plan on even trying to in any way have some control over your own career, fuck you. If you like having managers that you pay to fight for your interests, fuck you. If you don't bend over and submit to Zuffa's best interest, no matter how good of a fighter you are, fuck you.

Who knows what the deal is with having to disclose fighter salaries to US athletic commissions too. I'm sure that's a real fun process to go through with GG

bobbitt15 wrote:

Who knows what the deal is with having to disclose fighter salaries to US athletic commissions too. I'm sure that's a real fun process to go through with GG

This.

I can accept that.

I believe if the fighters are willing to accept that system within Golden Glory that should be alright, but i can accept Zuffa not wanting to do it like that for a particular camp if thats the real reason. I just didnt want to hear this being some muscle flex in light of the Alistair Overeem situation...it still may be a muscle flex, but i too noticed that Golden Glory talent was completely absent from Zuffa for several years until they bought Strikeforce who showcased several Golden Glory fighters...i can see this being the reason why.

Dana said as much in an interview with Ariel. He said flat out the UFC is never going to do business this way, the checks will go into the hands of the fighters, and to interview Golden Glory if you want to find out why they do things that way

GDPofDRC wrote:

Dana is saying if you plan on even trying to in any way have some control over your own career, fuck you. If you like having managers that you pay to fight for your interests, fuck you. If you don't bend over and submit to Zuffa's best interest, no matter how good of a fighter you are, fuck you.

I got to agree with this

Why cut them then?

If its salaries/commission issue, UFC and GG could figure something out to work together.

White saying OUR way or nothing

SF and GG were all good until Zuffa got involved. Coker was just on the radio talking about their "great relationship".

gomez1012 wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

Dana is saying if you plan on even trying to in any way have some control over your own career, fuck you. If you like having managers that you pay to fight for your interests, fuck you. If you don't bend over and submit to Zuffa's best interest, no matter how good of a fighter you are, fuck you.

I got to agree with this

Why cut them then?

If its salaries/commission issue, UFC and GG could figure something out to work together.

White saying OUR way or nothing

Why would they change the way they do things because of one gym with a few (and I use that term liberally) quality MMA fighters? This is pretty much a standard business decision

OU wrote:

SF and GG were all good until Zuffa got involved. Coker was just on the radio talking about their "great relationship".

SF also bent over and had to co-promote with notorious assholes M1. You have to do stuff like that when you're a small dog out there and need to do whatever you can to get good fighters. Zuffa obviously isn't in that same boat

Why is Zuffa, who holds the same policy with everyone they deal with the enemy in this spot? Seems like it would be much easier and make a whole lot more sense for Golden Glory to accept their fighters getting paid directly if they want to fight for the best promotion in the sport. The onus is on them here to change policy, not the larger corp who holds the same standards for everyone

It's odd that 98% of fighters are so comfortable with the way Zuffa runs things, and in reality they try and run their company in the most professional manner of any MMA Org we've seen, you're nit picking if you try and dispute that, it's by a wide margin.


That said while this would be a completely reasonable to part ways, and I said a couple days ago, "It could just as much be Golden Glory at fault as it could be something like hardball tactics by Zuffa. How many Golden Glory fighters have fought in the UFC over the past bunch of years? The States pre-SF? There's always more to things then meets the eye", I think there's probably still more to it. I would say though, why would a company like Zuffa have to change anything about how they run a business, something about their system obviously works. It doesn't simply have to be about this, but in general.

If the fighters are happy with their current representation why should the UFC give a fuck? I'm not seeing anywhere that the amount on the check is the issue. Just the name. If they are really interested in having the best fighters under one banner then why not just pay who the fighter ask you to pay? After they earn it's their money right? Why can't they choose how they want that money handled?
How is that bad for the fighter if that is what they chose to do themselves?
I still think this is a bullshit power move, no way this weak ass excuses is the primary reason for all this shit.

http://mmajunkie.com/news/24695/despite-coenens-claims-of-white-untruths-ufc-boss-stands-by-initial-claims.mma
In an apparent response to that statement, Coenen tweeted a photo of her Forza, LLC (a subsidiary of UFC and Strikeforce parent company Zuffa, LLC)-issued check for public inspection as a way to prove her ex-employers at Strikeforce were paying her directly – not her management company, Golden Glory, as White insisted the Dutch-based firm was attempting to arrange.

White said the check was issued as such due to his company's insistence, but that Golden Glory executives were certainly not happy about the deal.

"Even when we did the deal with Einemo (for a fight at UFC 131), we told them, 'We're paying the fighters,'" White told MMAjunkie.com. "Even though they agreed to the deal, they later came out and were flipping out during the event wanting to change the deal.'"

As it turns out, White's initial explanation of the process wasn't entirely accurate, even if the premise of the concept was sound. In many states, athletic commissions simply hold the agreed-upon purse checks as proof of the promotion's intent to pay before distributing said checks on fight night. For instance, Illinois – where Coenen fought in July and where the check in question was earned – does not require any sort of escrow deposit, and checks are simply passed on as arranged.

In fact, according to the commission's website, the state's MMA regulatory act only requires promoters to disclose "the amount of the purses to be paid to the professionals for the event" in order to achieve sanctioning.

Further sources familiar with the negotiations suggested Golden Glory fighters are often willing to simply sign over their checks to Golden Glory, regardless to whom they are issued. MMAjunkie.com was unable to confirm those requests on-record, but veteran MMA reporter Josh Gross seemed to suggest the relationship with her management is one of complete trust.

"Marloes Coenen just told me she wants Golden Glory to handle payments because of tax purposes," Gross stated on Twitter. "She's paid direct and knows what she makes."

Quote :

"I have nothing against these fighters. I have nothing against Golden Glory. The commissions are there to make sure there are never any bounced checks. We're required to do business a certain way, and we have no choice but to comply."

Then how could SF and GG do business?

wtf

in the end its really quite simple.drop ur managment and continue to fight under the largest mma company there is and still make doe or dont and go fight in a second teir promotion and probably make less. dont know whats so hard about that. one of the reasons why fitch being the great fighter he is hasnt gotten a title shot already is cus he wont fight his teamates. point being to that if u dont listen to ur boss/income source , u might not get what u want in the end and possibly get fired. its a job, its their job. their adults , they should understand life is not fair, bosses at times suck. do what u have to do.

Holy Shit. I knew I would come on here and find out Fedor was cut, but dropping Marlos? And it's complete BS. I watched the interview Ariel did with Dana were he's saying that GG wants the checks made out to them and then explained that you can't do that legally here in the US.

So he's saying SF has been paying their GG fighters illegally? Or is he saying that just because Zuffa owns SF now that they will only agree to checks being made out to GG? Which is it cause GG was fine with how SF was paying their fighters.

I think it is very clear that the primary reason for all of this bullshit is not GG payment policy. Dana's claims that it was a commission issue were shown to be false. Examples were shown of recent payments directly to GG fighters so they obviously worked around the policy before.

Besides whatever the commission says, Dana probably insists on paying the fighters first because I am sure in the past there have been scenarios where managers were paid first and then made off with the money. Then the fighter would come to the promoter and say, "where's my dough?" It makes sense to me to issue the checks in the fighter's names. The UFC contract is with the fighter, not the managers.

But finally, this situation was all about Overeem. I guarentee SF took his brother on at Alistair's request. Zuffa has made it clear that they don't care about women's MMA, and the big guy lost to a newcomer. Keeping these guys around was probably Alistair insurance. Now that he's gone, they're gone. Alistair is just as much to blame.