The Historical Significance of Brock at #1

I don't know that at 270 pounds you're all of a sudden immune to BJJ. Werdum would submit Lesnar.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

captain organic wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

At worse Randy was the 3rd best.

AA was def ranked higher at the time as well.

No he wasn't. Beating Werdum, Rothwell and Nelson after losing twice to Sylvia doesn't make you top 3.

Ok sure, whatever, but can you at least admit your rankings are retconned based selectively on your interpretation of the division before and after these fights, and are completely subjective, and cannot be used as a "consensus" argument?

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

captain organic wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

At worse Randy was the 3rd best.

AA was def ranked higher at the time as well.

No he wasn't. Beating Werdum, Rothwell and Nelson after losing twice to Sylvia doesn't make you top 3.

U have to factor in Randy's year long hiatus.

But we can agree Randy was still legitimately ranked very high, but was def not the #2 in the world.

So what if he had not fought in a year. By the time Mauricio Rua fights Evans he wouldn't have fought for over a year also. Does that mean he's out of the top 5 as well?

The rankings are truly irrelevant and more subjective in this division then all others. This conversation has been had 67 times since August 3rd and 4 times before that, no one has been successful at persuading another to change their mind. No matter how smart people think they are I will always be smartest. Buhhahahahah! Carlos Palomino would beat every HW fighter in MMA on the same night.

Shogun isn't 45. Shogun is in a more established, stable UFC division and has established himself with his fights with Machida, who was the consensus number 1, Randy beat Timmy when he was ranked lower by many than a slew of Pride HWs. Shogun doesn't have an interm title being contested under his nose to further question his legitimacy. Shogun isn't coming off a knockout loss at a lower weight class. Randy's title was more or less a trinket at the time. It didn't assure him the number 2 HW slot.

GDPofDRC wrote:

The rankings are truly irrelevant and more subjective in this division then all others. This conversation has been had 67 times since August 3rd and 4 times before that, no one has been successful at persuading another to change their mind. No matter how smart people think they are I will always be smartest. Buhhahahahah! Carlos Palomino would beat every HW fighter in MMA on the same night.

quit trying to ruin our fun.

Carlos Palomino #1 HW/P4P MMA fighter.

Deal with it

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Shogun isn't 45. Shogun is in a more established, stable UFC division and has established himself with his fights with Machida, who was the consensus number 1, Randy beat Timmy when he was ranked lower by many than a slew of Pride HWs. Shogun doesn't have an interm title being contested under his nose to further question his legitimacy. Shogun isn't coming off a knockout loss at a lower weight class. Randy's title was more or less a trinket at the time. It didn't assure him the number 2 HW slot.

Age has nothing to do with it. Sylvia was a top 5 heavyweight in the world when Randy beat him and Randy did it much easier than Big Nog did.

Not sure where this thread is at, but Randy was ranked #2 when he fought Brock

LA wrote:

Not sure where this thread is at, but Randy was ranked #2 when he fought Brock

Where? By who?

By most, where I looked and couldn't find anything that far back, why are you acting like this is soo ridiculous? He had Beaten Timmy and Gonzo (when everyone thought Gonzo was the shit) took time off but the minute he cameback people put him back at 2. veryone wanted Randy vs. Fedor still at this time, the debate for who was really #1 was still going on.

LA wrote:

By most, where I looked and couldn't find anything that far back, why are you acting like this is soo ridiculous? He had Beaten Timmy and Gonzo (when everyone thought Gonzo was the shit) took time off but the minute he cameback people put him back at 2. veryone wanted Randy vs. Fedor still at this time, the debate for who was really #1 was still going on.

That's what I said.

By most or by you? No one had him 2 at that time. Bloodyelbow shows his average was 7th. He wasn't ranked on sherdog. What other rankings were relevant? He wasn't 2 on no damn nokaut.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

By most or by you? No one had him 2 at that time. Bloodyelbow shows his average was 7th. He wasn't ranked on sherdog. What other rankings were relevant? He wasn't 2 on no damn nokaut.

He was number 2 after the Gonzaga fight. They removed him because he was inactive not because he lost which was bullshit. They didn't remove Brock and they wont remove Rua.

I love Randy, more than most and I am not taking the time to go through logs back to 08', but when he came back I am fairly sure he was not the internet consesus #2 or even the boards. But it is truly irrelevent to discuss this anyone. If we can't rank Fedor #1 anymore due to his rookie mistake and we can't give it to Werdum, because he got the shit kicked out of him by JDS, can we generally agree that Brock would beat JDS? Assuming that we are in general agreement with that assumption, plus his defeat of three top ten ranked HWs in a row, ownership of the belt, that places him at #1.

Wolf I know we do not always get along and when we do it is in the strangest of ways, that list of dead pro-wrestlers was fucking awesome, anyone who has had their brains rattled basically agrees that Werdum would get owned in round 1 by Brock. To much of everything he doesn't have. If Werdum had really good striking with power of note? I would agree with you, but he doesn't. He can't get a triangle choke on Brock's thick neck and is not strong enough to get an armbar. He would be beaten to death. If you want to bring Brock down, really? Start dissing his opponents and telling us how over ranked they are compared to Strikeforces. Pump up Overeem, Barnett, Werdum and Del Rosario and over rank them. I haven't got to remind you of Fedor, you do that enough already.

andrew, Brocks arms aren't any larger than Tim Sylvia's, which Frank Mir broke one of. Legs are stronger than arms. If he could be kneebarred, he can be armbarred. There is only one fighter I've seen who appears to have an anatomical leg up on chokes and that is Sean Sherk, and until Brock proves that he does as well, I am not going to assume he is immune to chokes or BJJ because he is 270.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

andrew, Brocks arms aren't any larger than Tim Sylvia's, which Frank Mir broke one of. Legs are stronger than arms. If he could be kneebarred, he can be armbarred. There is only one fighter I've seen who appears to have an anatomical leg up on chokes and that is Sean Sherk, and until Brock proves that he does as well, I am not going to assume he is immune to chokes or BJJ because he is 270.

Damn, Sean Sherk is a freak. You'd probably need a snake to choke him out.

Sherk is like Mini Brock?

On the Randy thing, Wolf just wants to argue to argue and discredit Brock's wins.

LA wrote:

Sherk is like Mini Brock?

On the Randy thing, Wolf just wants to argue to argue and discredit Brock's wins.

Nothing new there.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

andrew, Brocks arms aren't any larger than Tim Sylvia's, which Frank Mir broke one of. Legs are stronger than arms. If he could be kneebarred, he can be armbarred. There is only one fighter I've seen who appears to have an anatomical leg up on chokes and that is Sean Sherk, and until Brock proves that he does as well, I am not going to assume he is immune to chokes or BJJ because he is 270.

What about Jon Fitch? It's apparently impossible to choke him out.

And that was but a small bit of my argument!

Discredit, or be realistic with it? Most HW's would have beaten Randy at that point.

You can't be rational or honest when it comes to Brock

You've already touted Cain tremendously (yes he def has a good chance of winning, though I'm picking Brock) and then said if Brock beats him he still might not be #1.

The only reason I wouldn't but Brock at 1 if he beats Cain is Werdum/Fedor. Werdum is my number 1. If Brock beats Cain then I'll have to give him credit. This is by far his toughest fight. Cain could beat Fedor if he fought right. Not saying he would, saying he'd have a chance to, more than most.