The Historical Significance of Brock at #1

Check it out, this is a thread from a poster on the UG named whistleblower





Brock was the first UFC fighter in over 12.5 years to become the consensus #1 HW in MMA. In fact, since the end of 1997, the UFC had not had a single HW fighting in its octagon who was either ranked #1 or generally recognized as the absolute best (i.e., the one who would have been favored to beat every other HW, or fighter, in the sport at that point).

After 1997, both the reigning UFC HW Champion in Randy and the reigning 2-time HW Tournament Champion in Mark Kerr (who was generally considered the best HW in NHB then) left the UFC during their reigns for Japan - and since then, no UFC HW titleholder, and no UFC HW at all, had ever reclaimed that top spot (whether in terms of rankings or being considered the best), until 2010.

It wasn't just Randy and Kerr, either. In fact, after the end of '97, EVERY single current and previous UFC HW/Open-weight champion had left the UFC, mostly for Japan - Randy, Kerr, Mo Smith, Coleman, Severn, Ken, and Royce - which highlighted an overall exodus of top talent from the U.S. NHB scene, especially at HW, and marked the beginning of an increasing shift of NHB's epicenter to Japan (especially with the emergence of Pride).

The end of 1997 was the last time that being a UFC HW champion of any kind had meant any kind of singular supremacy in the sport.

The UFC's HW titleholders since Randy and Kerr, and up until Brock-Carwin, had been Bas, Randleman, Randy, Barnett, Ricco, Sylvia, Mir, Arlovski, Sylvia, Randy, Nog, and Mir - and none of them were #1 or considered the best at that time. Actually, the most highly ranked and regarded UFC HW titleholders in that 12-year stretch had been ranked #2 at best and considered second-best at best (e.g., Barnett and Nog), while most were not even as high as that.

It took the combination of Brock Lesnar, a suddenly revitalized UFC HW division, the UFC's expanded brand prestige and influence, and ultimately, perennial #1 Fedor's decisive upset loss - who had previously monopolized the top spot for over 7 years straight as the universal #1 - to finally reverse over 12 years of accumulated history against HW supremacy in the UFC.

The UFC's recent HW revival has not been limited to just #1, though.

In the last couple of years, the UFC has also reversed the trend of most of the previous decade where, in addition to not having the #1 HW, the UFC perennially did not have most of the top-10 HW's in MMA - where the majority had instead perennially been in Pride up until 2007 (and the #1 HW in Pride had also been the universally #1 HW in MMA for the entire decade up to that point). Meanwhile, the UFC's own HW class was still not one of its premier divisions until 2008-2009, with the emergence of new monsters like Brock, Carwin, Cain, and Dos Santos.

The Brock-Carwin fight formally finalized an historic shift in the division in that, in the wake of Fedor's loss (and with an improved UFC HW division), it was now known that - for the first time since the end of '97 - the winner of a HW fight in the UFC, the UFC HW champion, would be the consensus #1 HW in MMA.

With Brock becoming #1, this was now also the first time in Zuffa history - again the first time in over 12 years, and the first time since the UFC had more than 2 weight classes - that the UFC has the consensus #1's in every single one of its weight classes.

(Where HW had been the longest hold-out - while 205 had now been consolidated in the UFC after the Pride purchase, and an undisputed #1 crowned there since 2007-2008 - Anderson has been the dominant #1 at 185 since 2006, 170 has been the UFC's domain with the #1 spot monopolized since Hughes-Sakurai, and LW was claimed after the UFC brought the division back and BJ Penn came back down to it and became the consensus #1 in 2008.)

Another historic milestone that Brock represents is that he was also the first HW in over a decade, since Kerr, to become the new consensus #1 without having to face and beat - or at least beat up (a la Igor over Kerr) - anyone who was even arguably #1 or considered the single absolute best at the time.

(Where, unlike Brock - before him, Fedor, Nog, Coleman, and Igor had all had to face, outfight, and go through the previous #1 to become #1 themselves.)

Another very telling fact is that Brock was already named #1 at HW on some rankings, including arguably the two most prominent ones in MMAWeekly and Sherdog - immediately in the week following Fedor's loss, even BEFORE his fight with Carwin. Which was the first time in MMA history that a fighter - in any weight class - had ever ascended to the top spot without fighting, let alone winning, a single fight in virtually a year.

That in itself speaks to the power and influence of the UFC brand name now - and even just the sheer nominal force of its title. (Even though the UFC's title at HW had not signified being #1 or the best in over 12 years.) The rankings just could not wait to crown the official UFC champion as their new #1.

(Where, while most fighters usually drop in the rankings after that kind of inactivity, Brock not only did not drop, but rose - and not only rose, but rose as high as a fighter could possibly go - which was completely unprecedented. So not only did Brock not have to fight the previous #1 to become #1 - Brock did not even have to fight at all for a year to rise to #1, because of his formally retained position as the champion of the preeminent brand.)

Another interesting fact to note, however, is that when Brock first became UFC champion after beating Randy - going into 2009, he was not even generally ranked top-5 yet, and not ranked as high as #2 on even a SINGLE major ranking, despite already being UFC champion. Which goes to show just how far the perception of the UFC's HW division and its title had come in just a year and a half, and even during Brock's reign itself.

(Where even up through the beginning of Brock's own reign, the UFC HW title had not traditionally defined any preeminent status in the division.)

But in any case, regardless of the history and the established precedent it has defied - Brock becoming #1 reflected the new reality that just being the UFC HW champion in itself will almost automatically be enough to make someone the consensus #1 from now on, with Brock serving as the new starting-point - following the Fedor loss and cemented with his win over Carwin - which will then follow on to whoever beats Brock, and so on.

Brock has made history, reversed history, and been a significant historical exception in more ways than one. But ultimately, in addition to embodying the ultimate brand power and influence of the UFC now, the most lastingly significant consequence of all will be that - after over a 12-year absence during its 17-year history - Brock has finally brought the ultimate symbol of HW supremacy back to where it originated: To the UFC and its title.

I give the guy props for a very detailed and interesting post.

And I also give him major props for highlighting Brocks somewhat absurd rise in the rankings.

Though I do disagree with the idea that Brock is the #1 hw because of his UFC title. He's #1(at least in the eyes of those who rank him as such) because he is huge, athletic, and has an excellent wrestling pedigree.

He isn't the number 1. Werdum is.

1. Werdum

Lots of funny and truth in Whistleblower's post.

It would be tough for any other HW out side UFC to claim #1 again. Pride was big and active enough in it's time to hold and maintain the claim. SF is the only real contender today and they cannot put together a compelling fighting division with their stable right now. The fact that UFC is slowly being considered more MMA than, well MMA, has a residual effect even to solid fans. The best fighter in reality in every division might not be in the UFC but the pattern of thought is increasingly arguing against that because of the mammoth that the UFC is in MMA right now.

Majority speaks against the logic of ranking Werdum #1, despite however just that designation may be.

Werdum would be fighting for top 5 in the UFC with Mir or Roy or even Big Nog still.

Brock, Cain, Carwin, Dos Santos

1. Werdum

^Hater

Wolfgangsta wrote:

He isn't the number 1. Werdum is.

Brock has beaten tougher competition than Werdum. I'm sorry, but beating Mir, Couture, and Carwin is better than beating Kyle, Silva, and Emelianenko. Admittedly, the best win out of the six named is Fedor, but the overall better of the recent resumes belongs to Lesnar.

Career belongs to Werdum. Also Lesnar looked bad in the Couture and Carwin wins, and won due to the weaknesses of his opponents(age-chin and lactic shock) and not his own skills.

I'm not giving the career to Werdum necessarily, and Werdum looked bad in wins just the same, Kyle was beating him up standing and he's a LHW, he only beats Silva because Big Foot breaks his hand. I'll take Brock's top wins over Werdum, Fedor win doesn't do much for me because it's obvious how retarded Fedor was in that fight.

funny thing is and im sure no one remembers this Mo Smith was the Heavyweight Champ of Extreme Fighting when he beat Coleman

who woulda thought some smaller org had the real champ

chorky777 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

He isn't the number 1. Werdum is.

Brock has beaten tougher competition than Werdum. I'm sorry, but beating Mir, Couture, and Carwin is better than beating Kyle, Silva, and Emelianenko. Admittedly, the best win out of the six named is Fedor, but the overall better of the recent resumes belongs to Lesnar.

Were Mir Couture or Carwin considered #1 p4p at the time of the fight? Werdum without a doubt has the a much bigger win on his resume then Brock does. And I'll put Big Foot right there with Mir. And that is just recent activity. Werdum actually has a resume that extends past the recent activity.

Brock has never been ranked due to his resume.

Couture and Mir are garbage time wins at this point. Were they that much better when Brock beat them? No. A 45 year old man off a 16 month layoff and Frank Mir are not #1 HW wins. Brock is only ranked so highly because he is a larger than life figure like Tyson or something.

LA wrote:

I'm not giving the career to Werdum necessarily, and Werdum looked bad in wins just the same, Kyle was beating him up standing and he's a LHW, he only beats Silva because Big Foot breaks his hand. I'll take Brock's top wins over Werdum, Fedor win doesn't do much for me because it's obvious how retarded Fedor was in that fight.

Randy is now fighting at 205 as well(after getting his ass wooped by what is widely considered a now shot Nog). And quit righting off the Fedor win when Brock was getting his ass kicked by a guy who COMPLETELY gassed in THREE MINUTES.

And as noted in the post, Everyone had Brock ranked #1 b4 Carwin. Dudes resume was in no way worthy of a #1 divisional ranking.

It was a nice little resume, but #1 hwy? Nah.

Werdum beats Silva with a broken hand, he loses that convincingly if not for the hand.

Come on, lets be honest with ourselves, how fucking retarded was Fedor against Werdum? he puts himself in a triangle pretty much.

On Randy and Mir, at the time, they were where they were, you can';t look at it now and say, of those weren't good wins, because they were. Randy was ranked #2 at the time.

Werdum's BJJ wizardry made Fedor think he was safe and defending when he wasn't.


1. Werdum.

Sometimes people rank fighters based on the "who can beat who" approach, I do in part. I have little faith Fedor could beat Brock at this point, it's just the matchup, Brock would get him down on his first shot, like me on a 8th grader, put his chest on Fedor and do his thing.

That was the sloppiest display by Fedor I'd seen in a long time by any fighter, but I know you'd rather tout Werdum then say Fedor was dumb.

Fedor made a mistake by sitting in guard at all. But he's been safe in that position a million times before. Werdum is just that good.

Brock would have very little chance to beat Fedor, if any at all.

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

I'm not giving the career to Werdum necessarily, and Werdum looked bad in wins just the same, Kyle was beating him up standing and he's a LHW, he only beats Silva because Big Foot breaks his hand. I'll take Brock's top wins over Werdum, Fedor win doesn't do much for me because it's obvious how retarded Fedor was in that fight.

Randy is now fighting at 205 as well(after getting his ass wooped by what is widely considered a now shot Nog). And quit righting off the Fedor win when Brock was getting his ass kicked by a guy who COMPLETELY gassed in THREE MINUTES.

At the time Randy was coming off dominant wins against Timmy and Gonzo though, when they were both top 10, he lost a close split decision to Nog, MMA is about the matchups too, Nog matched up well. Carwin would have finished probably everyone else in the World in that first Rd after the first shots, and lets say that was Fedor, he would not have been able to stuff that first shot Brock attempted which Carwin did, it'd b Mir all over again.

LA wrote:

Werdum beats Silva with a broken hand, he loses that convincingly if not for the hand.

Come on, lets be honest with ourselves, how fucking retarded was Fedor against Werdum? he puts himself in a triangle pretty much.

On Randy and Mir, at the time, they were where they were, you can';t look at it now and say, of those weren't good wins, because they were. Randy was ranked #2 at the time.

But should a 45 yr old randy who hadn't fought in more then a year have been ranked #2.

As far as Fedor, the dude is known for attacking a fighters strength. He spent entire fights in Nog's gaurd, stood with CC, KO'd AA. So that was Fedor just being Fedor.

And people seem to love writing off Fedor's wins over Timmy and AA because of fights which happened after their encounter.

Watch that shit again, it was pure stupidy by Fedor, and so Fedor will stuff Brock's first shot? come on now, that's physics right there, Brock's 270-8-lb body hitting Fedor's 230lb body, Brock gets him down, lays on him with that chest, pins an arm, and does exactly what he did to Mir. Rogers got Fedor down and gave Fedor trouble with his size, I'm sure Brock would get him down, possibly easily.