WOLF this is for you Buddy : Greats Opinions on Jack Johnson

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Are you guys pretending not to understand the arguments or are we just not getting it? Either we're having a disconnect or you're purposely being intellectually dishonest.

Who is going to sell a 3rd, 4th, 5th fight with someone they've already beaten now a days? Imagine what you guys would say about a champion today fighting someone he's already smashed a bunch of times. Think about it.

Let me spell it out slowly so no one gets it twisted. No-one-is-saying-he-didn't-do-x-y-z-feat-of-superboxer-strength back in the day, we are saying Bob Arum, Don King ect wouldn't be fighting a guy like that 10 times a year, and you wouldn't be buying uncompetitive fights. Sugar Ray isn't just anyone. He'd be a GOAT canidate in his prime. He just wouldn't be getting in the ring a bunch of times with today's inferior fighters. I just don't see it. It's not ran like that. You can post whatever evidence from an era gone by all you like. Apples to oranges.

And you have not a shred of evidence that that is true or inevitable. Your'e just making stuff up.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

The difference is people in those days were raised to be the best. People these days are raised to make as much money as they can. Lewis-Tyson was the highest selling PPV of all-time but if they fought 5 times do you actually believe anybody would order it? No way Robinson's manager would have let him fight 20 times a year because there isn't even enough competition. There wasn't PPV's back in those days so you had to fight more often to make money. Also, people wouldn't be able to afford to pay for 20 SRR ppv's a year.

Closed circuit TV actually began in Robinson's time. You're also incorrect about what people would or would not watch. There were live fight cards just in NYC 350 nights a year. There is no possible way those were all big fights. There were live fights on network TV 2-3 night/week, again no way those were all big fights.

first a bob arum or a don king would not promote robinson.thats flaw number 1.robinson had no promoter .some other fighters were attached to a promoter robinson was up for grabs to the highest bidder..flaw number 2 is robinsons trainer-manager george gainford strongly believed a fighter should be active...flaw number 3 is every fight will be a ppv..the ppv syndrome..i wont fight less its a ppv..is that the mentality of todays fans and fighters..robinson in his hey day sold out almost every fight..the first and second fights he had with lamatto were 3 weeks apart..they sold out both times....now the mentality is you need 3 four months to promote a fight..lol..why..does anyone think a huge fight like floyd manny pac needs a 3 month promotion..what folks forget robinson and top fighters made a lot of money back then also...they wanted to be considered great..today most fighters could care less about being a great fighter...on the tv marble it depends what you call a big fight...today its maybe defined as 2 contenders fighting each other..just about every fight back then was between 2 contenders top fighters or for a title.....today a fight like that they try to jam ppv down fans throats and there suckers enough to think its a big fight..back then it was just a fight.fighters were expected to fight the best...today if or when that happens they attach a phoney abcdef title word-match to the fight..its not apples and oranges...

and now the wait begins

more factual evidence for wolf and freak to dispute with their own opinion

Ray Robinson aint fighting 20 times a year if he was fighting today. I'm surprised this argument even got this far. Idc what he did in his era or what his trainer believed. Today's TOP fighters fight no more than 3 times in a calendar year.


It's like saying today's pitchers in baseball can win 500 games. Pitchers today dont even get 500 career starts. Again, its different eras.

they fight 2 or 3 times a year cause its that fighters mindset..how many times in the past month have we seen fighters so no to a fight or attempt to back out of one..ward angulo dittrell williams potevin haye before that and valuez maidiana .fronch and abraham almost canceled cause of the worry of a hometown fight site..did robinson and others worry about a hometown site..please.because the fighters today dont fight at ALL.what floyd and mosley 4 fights in almost 5-6 years..the fighters of before wanted to fight..noo robby wont do 20 in a year maybe..10 for sure he would..fighters of resent like bird said chavez duran camacho fought often..its in there character..it was in the charcter of the fighters of old..when did we ever see fight after fight not happen in such a short time in the past..NEVER.
again thats like saying since most heavyweights come in today fat sloppy 30-50 pounds overweight then if a louis walcott marciano were fighting today WHY they would do the same thing..nonsence..its called pride and character something todays fighters by the droves lack..excuses excuses that have no merit or meaning..shortcuts lol calling a fighter out without any intention of fighting..thats factuaL TODAY.
that resoning is pathetic..sooo 10-15 years from now if a top fighters now fight once every 18 months like a few do today are the current fans will they say nooo way if manny pac the K brothers etc etc were fighting today would they or could they fight 3 times a year..THATS exactly the phoney arguement thats being given today..

Ray Robinson would have the same mindset as today's fighters had he fought in this era.

no comment ...some one should tell chavez camacho duran they had the wrong mindset...

It's obvious with Ray Robinson he has taken on mythological like status with some boxing fans, and rationality is suffering. Boxing sucks now, but, boy ol boy you'd better believe Ray would fix it right up!

dmar5143 wrote:

no comment ...some one should tell chavez camacho duran they had the wrong mindset...

Who said this? No one said they had the wrong mindset. We said boxing aint like that no more. My proof? Your examples are two retired fighters who started fighting 30 and 40 years ago.

Look what you guys have been reduced to...

I would ask for a mod to come through and spare these two further embarrassment by locking it but I assume they'd just unlock it and continue hammering away on their quest to prove Ray Robinson was a superhuman not confined by mere mortals and their boxing business model.

this is why our board is awesome wolf

no one trashes a thread when there getting proven wrong

muhahahaha

first its not just ray robinson..its greb pep armstrong attell langford giardello saddler gavilyn and almost every fighter that was good or great a bushy graham a billy graham a billy petrole and for about 100 years fighters fought often..if a moditor is to lock this disgussion then lock out the mind readers who make a statement without facts..one reson amoung manny boxing has slide downword is fighters dont fight..lock out the folks who know little about the tradition and history of the sport especialy by making statements about one fighter robinson like he was the only one who fought often..jouneymen like joe micelli did contender in the late 50s early 60s in the welter division federico thompson did..beau jack ike williams sam langford..its over several several decades of activity...boxing has a history of 120 years with gloves and another 100 plus without gloves....if your hear to learn about the sport fine..dont invade our turff to disrupt it with BS and lack of undestanding what made boxing great...stick to your mma whee fighters have a 15-7-1 record and are called all time greats or legends like the ice man who i saw fight 4 times and 3 of them he was koed with the first punch he got hit with..some legend...mma has a hours worth of history compared to boxing..50 years from now boxing will still exist while mma ufc are long dead and burried...
enjoy your forum we will enjoy ours..stop disrupting it with mind reading nonsence or a puny amount of knowledge and understanding...soo your right..if anyone or things are to be locked out let it be mma guys who have no respect for our sport and far less knowledge then a new fan..

Quote :

first its not just ray robinson..its greb pep armstrong attell langford giardello saddler gavilyn and almost every fighter that was good or great a bushy graham a billy graham a billy petrole and for about 100 years fighters fought often..if a moditor is to lock this disgussion then lock out the mind readers who make a statement without facts..one reson amoung manny boxing has slide downword is fighters dont fight..

Blah blah. So the fighters are different? It's not the business model that's different, it's just the fighters? Is this what you're really, really arguing?

What happened then? Why aren't there any more real fighters? If all these fighters won't fight like the real fighters of yesteryear why don't you stop watching them?


It's not the fighters. It's the sport. It's not the animal, it's the environment. Ray wouldn't be the same Ray. His trainer would be the same trainer.

lets see business model..you mean what money..every sport the athlets are paid far far far more then the guys of the past..same business model applies there..why do baseball players play longer today..moderen surgery helps yes but its a longer season longer playoffs and arob litterly makes 330 times more in one year then dimaggio and mantle did..same with football.longer seasons longer playoffs..basekball also...same business model same new age modern envirement..all sports does more except boxing and for huge far more money..again your spouting BS.sorry..if the business model of today applies it needs to and should apply to all sports..it doesnt..soo out the window goes that junk....stick with what little you know about your new sport..leave ours alone..bye

Dmar, I'd guess that "boxing" as a whole would rather you learn basic English before speaking for the entire sport. Boxing isn't the same as other sports. You know this. Come off it.

SlickMoneyXL wrote:

Ray Robinson would have the same mindset as today's fighters had he fought in this era.

Wrong. He fought more than most big names then so I suppose he would have fought more than the superstars that fight today. Id say he would fight about six times a year. Not two or three.