THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS

There is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Not even Mr. Robinson or Mr. Lopez. Even the greatest of the greats had limitations, imperfections and flaws. Now of course most of these guys did what they did so well that foes were outmatched and couldn't exploit the flaws. Here are some, feel free to add your own.

Sugar Ray Robinson-Liked to live very well and it showed from time to time.
Harry Greb-Not a great defender and well, he lost an eye
Henry Armstrong-Couldn't go backwards and a tendency to cut badly
Joe Louis-A lazy jab
Muhammad Ali-A lousy uppercut and terrible defensive technique with his upper body
Joe Gans-No immunity to tuberculosis
Willie Pep-Sandy Saddler. Other than that he was close to perfect until the plane crash. Don't make the mistake of thinking he couldn't punch.
Ezzard Charles-Never really as aggressive, nasty or good after the death of Sam Baroudi. Also didn't have an iron chin.
Roberto Duran-Just not a disciplined liver and it showed.
Ray Leonard-Durability. His body just didn't hold up.
Tommy Hearns-Stamina
Marvin Hagler-Gave some too much respect. Not a top tier ring IQ.
Alexis Arguello-Not fluid, nor fast afoot.


Now among more recent guys

Manny P.-They are better but his footwork and balance are still really erratic.
Evander Holyfield-Too brave when he should have been smart
Sweet Pea-Fast living
Floyd Mayweather-Very tough to find an in ring flaw other than fighting at a modest pace. Just not as heavily tested as others.
Roy Jones-Mediocre chin and technique.

My takes anyway. Have at it!

great fucking thread I love it

Roy Jones - crossed his feet
Joe Frazier - took 3 to land 1
Larry Holmes - would get lazy at times
Aaron Pryor - liked to snort things
Riddick Bowe - gorged himself, horrible diet
Julio Cesar Chavez - stationary target with average speed (being nice)
Buddy McGirt - the shoulder
James Toney - ditto Bowe
Michael Nunn - believed his own press clippings
Bernard Taylor, Johnny Bumphus and half the 1980 Olympic Team - cocaine is a hell of a drug, mixed with not liking to get hit (who does, but with them it really showed)
Sugar Ray Seales - the eyes
Ken Norton - the chin
George Foreman (young) - didnt want to fight you, he wanted to destroy you
Zab Judah - knew how good he was and never developed into what he should have
Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko - not crowd friendly

Paul williams-doesnt fight like he's 6'2 and fights inside too much

Bernard Hopkins- doesnt punch enough, very good defense tho, and does just enough to give the fight away

these are two that stand out to me most i could prolly think of more if i wasnt tired

Birdofthad wrote:

great fucking thread I love it

Roy Jones - crossed his feet
Joe Frazier - took 3 to land 1
Larry Holmes - would get lazy at times
Aaron Pryor - liked to snort things
Riddick Bowe - gorged himself, horrible diet
Julio Cesar Chavez - stationary target with average speed (being nice)
Buddy McGirt - the shoulder
James Toeny - ditto Bowe
Michael Nunn - believed his press clippings
Bernard Taylor, Johnny Bumphus and half the 1980 Olympic Team - cocaine is a hell of a drug, mixed with not liking to get hit (who does, but with them it really showed)

Nice. A couple of comments. Pryor was awfully easy to hit, the guy just had an immense chin. Bowe was discipline, dead right. Chavez actually in his younger days was at least a little elusive...with average speed

Boy Toney STILL ticks me off. Man how good he could have been with just a modicum of discipline. Also not the fastest guy around.

Good call on the coke generation.

Deezy0814 wrote:

Paul williams-doesnt fight like he's 6'2 and fights inside too much

Bernard Hopkins- doesnt punch enough, very good defense tho, and does just enough to give the fight away

these are two that stand out to me most i could prolly think of more if i wasnt tired

VERY nice. Williams is a 5'9 guy fighting to get out of a 6'2 body!

great point on Pryor, Merchant said about Margarito in the Cotto fight, "he eat's punches like skittles" if thats true, Pryor ate punches like they were particles of the fountain of youth

agree Toney will go down as a top 25 guy IMO, easy top 50, and jesus, he could have been so much more

I love that quote he said " I really let all of boxing fans down in the Roy Jones Jr fight. I wasnt a pussy like Roy, I should have won that fight and I would have fought everyone worthy, not ducked people like he did."

its sad cause its 100 percent completely true

How about these
Tyson-Crazy, didnt like it when people punched back.
Ibeabuchi- Jail
Valero- NUT JOB.

Lennox Lewis - ego...didn't think Rahman and McCall belonged in the same ring as him

Oscar de la Hoya- ignored jab too often, one-handed fighter for a decent portion of his career

Ricardo Mayorga- smoked two packs a day

and that was just for breakfast

Kelly Pavlik- fights his height, needs more lateral movement to straight foward, also keeps his head a little too high for my liking. a new trainer would also help.

Pauli Malignaggi- The kid can box dont get me wrong, he was just too feather fisted to keep the pressure off him and it shows.

Floyd Mayweather- Has two crackheads helping him with his career.

Allan Green - was never great


hahaha sorry Sooners couldnt help myself

Azumah Nelson - for a professor he sure made a good amount of mistakes

Terry Norris - the chin

Birdofthad wrote:

Allan Green - was never great


hahaha sorry Sooners couldnt help myself

NO its Allan Green- Chokes on his own spit when fighting a ranked opponent.

Birdofthad wrote:

Azumah Nelson - for a professor he sure made a good amount of mistakes

Terry Norris - the chin

Good call on Norris, but I don't remember Azumah making systematic errors (could be my mind is going). He's another guy who got hit by EVERYBODY. Just not very elusive.

Tommy Morrison- Chin and couldnt stop having sex with people who were HIV positive.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Azumah Nelson - for a professor he sure made a good amount of mistakes

Terry Norris - the chin

Good call on Norris, but I don't remember Azumah making systematic errors (could be my mind is going). He's another guy who got hit by EVERYBODY. Just not very elusive.

just seemed like to me Azumah chased guys he shouldnt chase and walked into lotta shots and then boxed with guys he had no business trying to box

you are probably right though cause I have only seen about 5 Azumah fights

Birdofthad wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

Azumah Nelson - for a professor he sure made a good amount of mistakes

Terry Norris - the chin

Good call on Norris, but I don't remember Azumah making systematic errors (could be my mind is going). He's another guy who got hit by EVERYBODY. Just not very elusive.

just seemed like to me Azumah chased guys he shouldnt chase and walked into lotta shots and then boxed with guys he had no business trying to box

you are probably right though cause I have only seen about 5 Azumah fights

Well he chased Sweet Pea who hit him about 700 times, but what, you're gonna wait for Pete to come to you? He tried to both box and fight Sanchez...well...it didn't work.

hahah

funny thing is those are two of the fights I have hahaha

spot on as always marble

Nigel Benn - pee'd himself when Toney was mentioned. Could never fight him because it would have been the most embarassing pre-fight introduction in all of sports. hahaah that one was for Ali, sorry couldnt help myself again.

pretty damn positive Whitaker vs Azumah was one of Pernells 400 + punches landed fights

its nuts how many times Pea did that

good article marble...1.joey giardello alergic to training 2.young george foreman we are fighting WHAT 15 rounds..i missed reading the 1..i trained for 5 rounds.dam.3.joe frazier.he zigged when he should of zagged4..tex cobb.i love imitating a punching bag.5.floyd patterson..i should of legaly changed my name to floored patterson.6.gerry cooney no chin no heart no desire7.pete radamaker..i start at the top and work my way down...

Ali - 1970s: Took unnecessary punishment from lesser opponents. Seemed to get hit deliberately.
Roberto Duran: There’s a thin line between genius and insanity. Duran lived there.
Tyson: Case for retroactive abortion.
Tommy Hearns: Great offense. No chin. Big heart.

Valero definitely a nut job; dougie fisher of ringtv said in a mailbag that a reliable source from Venezuela said Valero had been diagnosed as schizo

Not going with the greats...just current guys who come to mind.

Zab Judah - Poor mental concentration and mental toughness.
Devon Alexander - Leaves his chin out.
Marcos Maidana - Slow.
Juan Urango - Never developed boxing skills. Only throws looping hooks.
Randall Bailey - Never developed boxing skills. Only throws a KO right.
Manny Pacquiao - Takes shots flush. Doesn't roll well with punches.
Andre Berto - Leaves himself open. Off-balanced. Hands down. Poor head movement. Bad pacing. Bad footwork.
Joshua Clottey - Needs more speed and aggression. Lacks desire.
Shane Mosley - Old. Lacks a strong jab. Fights stiff. Stamina problems.
Miguel Cotto - Bad instincts when he gets hit. Makes no attempt to cover up or clinch when he's caught flush.
Cory Spinks - Lack of dedication. No power.
Alfredo Angulo - Slow.
Antonio Margarito - Everything. He's terrible.
Paul Williams - Didn't pick a weight class. Fights in a predictable rhythm. Occasionally bobs into punches. Willing to trade even though he's got limited power.
Sergio Martinez - Keeps his hands real low and takes breaks during rounds.
Arthur Abraham - Slow pace. Complains. Leaves the middle of his body open. Can be outboxed.
Mikkel Kessler - Very textbook. Not dynamic enough against all styles.
Andre Dirrell - Poor mental toughness. Lacks confidence in the ring on the big stage. Runs.
Bernard Hopkins - Old. Fading athleticism, power and speed.
Vitali Klitschko - Old. Slowing down.