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 THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS

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WinstonSmith
bobbitt15
Deezy0814
Birdofthad
marbleheadmaui
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marbleheadmaui
Red Belt
Red Belt
marbleheadmaui


Favorite Fighter(s) : Arguello, Finito, Duran, Saad Muhammad
Posts : 4040
Join date : 2010-05-16

THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS   THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS - Page 2 EmptyTue Jul 20, 2010 10:25 pm

Gumby wrote:
Not going with the greats...just current guys who come to mind.

Zab Judah - Poor mental concentration and mental toughness.
Devon Alexander - Leaves his chin out.
Marcos Maidana - Slow.
Juan Urango - Never developed boxing skills. Only throws looping hooks.
Randall Bailey - Never developed boxing skills. Only throws a KO right.
Manny Pacquiao - Takes shots flush. Doesn't roll well with punches.
Andre Berto - Leaves himself open. Off-balanced. Hands down. Poor head movement. Bad pacing. Bad footwork.
Joshua Clottey - Needs more speed and aggression. Lacks desire.
Shane Mosley - Old. Lacks a strong jab. Fights stiff. Stamina problems.
Miguel Cotto - Bad instincts when he gets hit. Makes no attempt to cover up or clinch when he's caught flush.
Cory Spinks - Lack of dedication. No power.
Alfredo Angulo - Slow.
Antonio Margarito - Everything. He's terrible.
Paul Williams - Didn't pick a weight class. Fights in a predictable rhythm. Occasionally bobs into punches. Willing to trade even though he's got limited power.
Sergio Martinez - Keeps his hands real low and takes breaks during rounds.
Arthur Abraham - Slow pace. Complains. Leaves the middle of his body open. Can be outboxed.
Mikkel Kessler - Very textbook. Not dynamic enough against all styles.
Andre Dirrell - Poor mental toughness. Lacks confidence in the ring on the big stage. Runs.
Bernard Hopkins - Old. Fading athleticism, power and speed.
Vitali Klitschko - Old. Slowing down.

Pretty doggone good list and analysis.
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boxinglawyer
White Belt
White Belt



Posts : 84
Join date : 2010-05-20

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PostSubject: Re: THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS   THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 21, 2010 8:36 pm

marbleheadmaui wrote:
There is no such thing as a perfect fighter. Not even Mr. Robinson or Mr. Lopez. Even the greatest of the greats had limitations, imperfections and flaws. Now of course most of these guys did what they did so well that foes were outmatched and couldn't exploit the flaws. Here are some, feel free to add your own.

Sugar Ray Robinson-Liked to live very well and it showed from time to time.
Harry Greb-Not a great defender and well, he lost an eye
Henry Armstrong-Couldn't go backwards and a tendency to cut badly
Joe Louis-A lazy jab
Muhammad Ali-A lousy uppercut and terrible defensive technique with his upper body
Joe Gans-No immunity to tuberculosis
Willie Pep-Sandy Saddler. Other than that he was close to perfect until the plane crash. Don't make the mistake of thinking he couldn't punch.
Ezzard Charles-Never really as aggressive, nasty or good after the death of Sam Baroudi. Also didn't have an iron chin.
Roberto Duran-Just not a disciplined liver and it showed.
Ray Leonard-Durability. His body just didn't hold up.
Tommy Hearns-Stamina
Marvin Hagler-Gave some too much respect. Not a top tier ring IQ.
Alexis Arguello-Not fluid, nor fast afoot.


Now among more recent guys

Manny P.-They are better but his footwork and balance are still really erratic.
Evander Holyfield-Too brave when he should have been smart
Sweet Pea-Fast living
Floyd Mayweather-Very tough to find an in ring flaw other than fighting at a modest pace. Just not as heavily tested as others.
Roy Jones-Mediocre chin and technique.

My takes anyway. Have at it!

Great thread. Regarding the bolded portion, Eddie Futch said he knew after working the Foreman corner vs Holyfield that the way to beat Evander was to make him MAD. (of course, you STILL had to have a great fighter). He said that Evander got pissed when Foreman elbowed him and thats what let George land the uppercut that started his rally. He said after that, Evander learned but the mind-set and attitude was "still there" waiting to be brought out.
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boxinglawyer
White Belt
White Belt



Posts : 84
Join date : 2010-05-20

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PostSubject: Re: THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS   THE FLAWS OF THE GREATS - Page 2 EmptyWed Jul 21, 2010 9:00 pm

Good call on the Hagler thing too. Marvin often "out thought" himself in the ring against guys he had respect for. (there were not many of those). He blew away anyone that he didnt, but those he did he often fooled himself.

Duran is a good example. Hagler was on the verge of blowing Duran out early on. He was convinced that Duran was good enough that he could not actually be getting to and hurting Hands of Stone so easily, so he deduced that it was a "trap" and slowed his attack and became more methodical and predictable, playing right into Durans hands. Once he realized his mistake and stepped on the gas in the final rounds, he almost ran Duran out of the ring.

Against Leonard, Halger put tremendous pressure on himself both by making every concession Ray asked for( from gloves, to ringsize, to number of rounds) and by putting immense mental pressure on himself by thinking that his career would be a complete waste if he did not beat Ray. He made the mistake of boxing orthodox thinking that Ray would be "ready for southpaw" and hoped to out think the master thinker. He assumed control of the bout when he went southpaw. I think he won anyway, but once again, if he comes out southpaw, there is probably no doubt in this fight as Ray does not survive to the final bell to steal a decision. (little trivia here, Ray Leonard was HANDLED in closed sparring sessions by southpaw Quincy Taylor, who dropped Ray once. Ray would later take over and manage his career briefly based on his sessions with Taylor).

I also think you can add a couple flawed fighters.

Mike Tyson-Could not fight inside well at all, despite being "made"for close range.

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