WOLF this is for you Buddy : Greats Opinions on Jack Johnson

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

No top fighter would fight 20 times a year if they were fighting in this day and age.

And he mind reads again!

The man is impervious to actual evidence!

I know they fought 20 times a year back in the day but it doesn't mean they would this day and age.

And my evidence is Ray Robinson in his locker room after winning the welterweight title talking with his trainer George Gainford about how important it was that the money not change Robinson's activity level, that he fight as often as he had been so as to stay sharp. It is in his auto-biography.

In the year before he won the title? Robinson fought 14 times. In the year after he won the title? He fought 10 times.

What's your evidence?

Of course he would say that because it was the norm in his day. No one can win this argument because he never fought in this day and age and we can never prove what he would've done.

Bullspit. I have provided evidence based on an EXTREMELY similar situation, you have provided nada. Marble KO1.

No you haven't. No top fighter has fought more than 10 fights a year the last 5 years.

Not the issue. YOU asserted, with your usual complete lack of evidence that Ray Robionson would have acted in a particular way. I demonstrated he faced a similar choice and behaved the very way you asserted he wouldn't. KO1.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Birdofthad wrote:

James Toney

10 fghts in 1990
8 in 91
7 in 93
7 in 95

Holyfield
7 in 1985

Julio Cesar Chavez
10 in 1980
12 in 1981
12 in 1982
7 in 1983

You were saying?

20 years ago isn't today is it.

You are absolutely impervious to evidence aren't you? Bwahahahaha

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

No top fighter would fight 20 times a year if they were fighting in this day and age.

And he mind reads again!

The man is impervious to actual evidence!

I know they fought 20 times a year back in the day but it doesn't mean they would this day and age.

And my evidence is Ray Robinson in his locker room after winning the welterweight title talking with his trainer George Gainford about how important it was that the money not change Robinson's activity level, that he fight as often as he had been so as to stay sharp. It is in his auto-biography.

In the year before he won the title? Robinson fought 14 times. In the year after he won the title? He fought 10 times.

What's your evidence?

Of course he would say that because it was the norm in his day. No one can win this argument because he never fought in this day and age and we can never prove what he would've done.

Bullspit. I have provided evidence based on an EXTREMELY similar situation, you have provided nada. Marble KO1.

No you haven't. No top fighter has fought more than 10 fights a year the last 5 years.

Not the issue. YOU asserted, with your usual complete lack of evidence that Ray Robionson would have acted in a particular way. I demonstrated he faced a similar choice and behaved the very way you asserted he wouldn't. KO1.

I'm not going to bother anymore. We're both to stubborn to change our minds. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe.

Even though I don't agree with you I respect your knowledge of the past and your passion for boxing.

bottom line robinson loved competion and loved money more.soo did other great fighters..i can see robinson now.they tell him fight this mayweather dude for 25 million and IF you win theres 30 million to fight manny pac..robinson would say like he did in the past..line them up for the following two months and floyd would have all he could do to stop robinson from killing him..robby would take the descion out of the judges hands..thats for dam sure...excuses excuses are just that..ohhh harry greb would want to fight them weeks apart.....maybe its the oposite in some regards today..im not paid 5 fortunes to fight there offering me only 3 fortunes ..winky bo hop haye angullo berto gee we can go on and on why they dont fight..there not overpaying me enough..


im repeating what i said...

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

No top fighter would fight 20 times a year if they were fighting in this day and age.

And he mind reads again!

The man is impervious to actual evidence!

I know they fought 20 times a year back in the day but it doesn't mean they would this day and age.

And my evidence is Ray Robinson in his locker room after winning the welterweight title talking with his trainer George Gainford about how important it was that the money not change Robinson's activity level, that he fight as often as he had been so as to stay sharp. It is in his auto-biography.

In the year before he won the title? Robinson fought 14 times. In the year after he won the title? He fought 10 times.

What's your evidence?

Of course he would say that because it was the norm in his day. No one can win this argument because he never fought in this day and age and we can never prove what he would've done.

Bullspit. I have provided evidence based on an EXTREMELY similar situation, you have provided nada. Marble KO1.

No you haven't. No top fighter has fought more than 10 fights a year the last 5 years.

Not the issue. YOU asserted, with your usual complete lack of evidence that Ray Robionson would have acted in a particular way. I demonstrated he faced a similar choice and behaved the very way you asserted he wouldn't. KO1.

I'm not going to bother anymore. We're both to stubborn to change our minds. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe.

Even though I don't agree with you I respect your knowledge of the past and your passion for boxing.

You should. Now do yourself a favor and go read Ray Robinson's auto-biography. It's a blast and very enlightning as to the mind of a great fighter.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

No top fighter would fight 20 times a year if they were fighting in this day and age.

And he mind reads again!

The man is impervious to actual evidence!

I know they fought 20 times a year back in the day but it doesn't mean they would this day and age.

And my evidence is Ray Robinson in his locker room after winning the welterweight title talking with his trainer George Gainford about how important it was that the money not change Robinson's activity level, that he fight as often as he had been so as to stay sharp. It is in his auto-biography.

In the year before he won the title? Robinson fought 14 times. In the year after he won the title? He fought 10 times.

What's your evidence?

Of course he would say that because it was the norm in his day. No one can win this argument because he never fought in this day and age and we can never prove what he would've done.

Bullspit. I have provided evidence based on an EXTREMELY similar situation, you have provided nada. Marble KO1.

No you haven't. No top fighter has fought more than 10 fights a year the last 5 years.

Not the issue. YOU asserted, with your usual complete lack of evidence that Ray Robionson would have acted in a particular way. I demonstrated he faced a similar choice and behaved the very way you asserted he wouldn't. KO1.

I'm not going to bother anymore. We're both to stubborn to change our minds. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe.

Even though I don't agree with you I respect your knowledge of the past and your passion for boxing.

You should. Now do yourself a favor and go read Ray Robinson's auto-biography. It's a blast and very enlightning as to the mind of a great fighter.

I might do that 1 day soon actually. I enjoy reading auto-biographies. I think you should be a boxing mod. No one else has your passion. You would be perfect for the job.

Floyd Mayweather Jr
1997 10 fights
7 1998

Zab Judah
1997 10 fights

Emanuel Augustus
7 in 1995
10 in 1998
8 in 1999

Micky Ward
9 in 1986

Oscar De La Hoya
9 in 1993

Andre Berto
8 2005
7 2006


Facts disputed by freakzilla
3,963 in 10 days

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

No top fighter would fight 20 times a year if they were fighting in this day and age.

And he mind reads again!

The man is impervious to actual evidence!

I know they fought 20 times a year back in the day but it doesn't mean they would this day and age.

And my evidence is Ray Robinson in his locker room after winning the welterweight title talking with his trainer George Gainford about how important it was that the money not change Robinson's activity level, that he fight as often as he had been so as to stay sharp. It is in his auto-biography.

In the year before he won the title? Robinson fought 14 times. In the year after he won the title? He fought 10 times.

What's your evidence?

Of course he would say that because it was the norm in his day. No one can win this argument because he never fought in this day and age and we can never prove what he would've done.

Bullspit. I have provided evidence based on an EXTREMELY similar situation, you have provided nada. Marble KO1.

No you haven't. No top fighter has fought more than 10 fights a year the last 5 years.

Not the issue. YOU asserted, with your usual complete lack of evidence that Ray Robionson would have acted in a particular way. I demonstrated he faced a similar choice and behaved the very way you asserted he wouldn't. KO1.

I'm not going to bother anymore. We're both to stubborn to change our minds. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe.

Even though I don't agree with you I respect your knowledge of the past and your passion for boxing.

You should. Now do yourself a favor and go read Ray Robinson's auto-biography. It's a blast and very enlightning as to the mind of a great fighter.

I might do that 1 day soon actually. I enjoy reading auto-biographies. I think you should be a boxing mod. No one else has your passion. You would be perfect for the job.

I am waaaaay too obnoxious to be in charge

The boxing world would swing, if Captain were king. No, bad idea for me to be in charge of anything.

I think the piling on freak is excessive in this thread. While it's impossible to say, and all we can do is guess, it's hardly unreasonable to think someone like Ray Robinson, and level he'd be on, would be able to summarily buck the business model of the entire sport out of a nasty competitive streak. Maybe if he came along in 1985. Not now. No way would his managers fight him that often at the championship level. Who would he fight anyway? Could boxing even sustain credible challengers for a guy to box 15-20 times a year? What would boxing nerds like you guys say if he was fighting 10 or 15 different fighters a year after he was out of the prospecting stage? What kind of records would these challengers have? They had a lot more fighters back then and they didn't have 24/hour microscopes and blogs. How would this work with PPV and TV?

I love how passionate marbleheadedmaui is, and he's usually cocked back and ready to bust out some stats to prove his point, but I think here he is fanboying the conception of Ray as "the perfect fighter".

wolf sorry so ill just put it in simple terms

YOUR WRONG

robinson would fight guys 3 to 6 times

not just one time

So basically, "fuck all that whatever, ray would fucking fight!". I'm having this same discussion with some UFC guys who don't get why team mates can't fight in many situations.

pretty much ya

for example

Ray was the first fighter to get percentages of broadcasts and made a fortune

he was fighting tons into his mid to late 30s when he weasily could have rested on his laurels

the guy was a fighter and loved testing himself he was the ultimate

Julio Cesar Chavez had over 100 fights and retired in the 2000s
Roberto Duran retired in the 2000s

I really dont get it is hard to grasp the fact that some fighters would fucking fight when there are examples IN THIS ERA

pardon my french but it is fucking retarded to say, well that was a while ago they surely wouldnt have fought that much know even though i have guys in my own era that have done it

and closed broadcast and showing where PPV back then it was still a huge market/racket to be had

Ray would basically hold the guys ransom till the last minute saying no i want 10 percent or i dont fight

Ray Robinson isn't those guys though dude. Jeremy Horn has 100 fights too. Hardly the norm. We're talking about a guy who would be on the level of Lebron, Tiger, Michael ect in today's sports world with his skills in today's environment. He wouldn't be fighting the same guys he's crushed already 3 times.

Julio Cesar Chavez

go do yourself a favor and look him up

why are they arguing with you bird when they ignore the facts..robinson fought lamatto what 5 or 6 times..fullmer 4 times bobo olsen 3 or 4 times gaviln twice basilio twice and others more then once..out the window goes robinson would not fight guys 3 or so times today...without ppv and this junk which they rely on as a reason why fighters dont fight much..i dont buy that for a second and gave examples of several fighters not fighting dispite being offered far more then there worth..yes in proportion theres more money today..sooo what..back in the mid fiftys a good job was 7500 a caddy was 5000 yet robinson earned in one fight 50 times the wage of a good wage back then or a lifetime for one worker.that did not stop him from fighting often..hey 20 mill a huge fight..soo my incentive is do it 6 times in one year not once..if a fighter cannot be motivated to fight for huge money theres something wrong..its a pitafull non valid excuse by mma guys to give legitabilty to inactivity...and many fighters say i wont fight for 750 000 like angulo by far three times his best payday..excuses excuses..6 times a year to fight in reality is modest compared to armstrong pep greb and countless others..thats not asking too much..fighters fight and its more then once a year...most guys avoid top competion today back then they welcomed it...
the excuses and reasons are pitafull...bird and marble are correct...

duran and chavez bird are 2 great examples..there called throwbacks modern fighters that fight..opps 20 years ago was not the old days..its a disgussion that goes noo where..just say there right bird and stop a beat to death topic of rewarding inactivity and call it greatness..yuck.

your right dmar i dont think they can accept a fact at all

notice i try to just post about some greats opinions on Jack Johnson

and where does the thread get taken to in about 5 posts?

Are you guys pretending not to understand the arguments or are we just not getting it? Either we're having a disconnect or you're purposely being intellectually dishonest.

Who is going to sell a 3rd, 4th, 5th fight with someone they've already beaten now a days? Imagine what you guys would say about a champion today fighting someone he's already smashed a bunch of times. Think about it.

Let me spell it out slowly so no one gets it twisted. No-one-is-saying-he-didn't-do-x-y-z-feat-of-superboxer-strength back in the day, we are saying Bob Arum, Don King ect wouldn't be fighting a guy like that 10 times a year, and you wouldn't be buying uncompetitive fights. Sugar Ray isn't just anyone. He'd be a GOAT canidate in his prime. He just wouldn't be getting in the ring a bunch of times with today's inferior fighters. I just don't see it. It's not ran like that. You can post whatever evidence from an era gone by all you like. Apples to oranges.

wolf obviously never saw Morales vs Pac 3 times

love how its gone from

the old timers werent as good as todays fighters

to

well they wouldnt fight as often

to

well they wouldnt fight a guy 3 to 6 times now a days

whats next you guys gonna say todays fighters wouldnt use gloves?

No its gone from "boxing is different now, and its the sport that makes the fighters different not the fighters that make the sport different" to "boxing is different now, and its the sport that makes the fighters different not the fighters that make the sport different"

The difference is people in those days were raised to be the best. People these days are raised to make as much money as they can. Lewis-Tyson was the highest selling PPV of all-time but if they fought 5 times do you actually believe anybody would order it? No way Robinson's manager would have let him fight 20 times a year because there isn't even enough competition. There wasn't PPV's back in those days so you had to fight more often to make money. Also, people wouldn't be able to afford to pay for 20 SRR ppv's a year.