What level boxer all-time is Lennox Lewis as a HW?

NBrooks5 wrote:

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

who is this directed at? I give the Klitschkos full credit and am convinced they will one day be viewed in much the same way Lewis is now. All three suffered bigotry in their primes. Lewis' career capping victory over a prime Vitali gets better each passing year.

Canvas wrote:

NBrooks5 wrote:

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

who is this directed at? I give the Klitschkos full credit and am convinced they will one day be viewed in much the same way Lewis is now. All three suffered bigotry in their primes. Lewis' career capping victory over a prime Vitali gets better each passing year.

Except for the fact that Lewis was getting his ass kicked in that fight and is lucky to have won. Also he ducked him into retirement. I say that is one of the reasons Lennox gets bashed.

dmar5143 wrote:

frank 6 million to step asside tells me they didnt start off at that figure.maybe it was one then 2 then 4 finaly 6 is my line of thinking.that would suggest lewis said nooo lets do the fight.for 6 million line up all the fights you can and i would step aside each time for sure..

on hollifield sooner saying at least he fought everyone in there prime..realy.2 old men holmes and foreman early 40s and go the distence with him..foreman one round came close to doing him in but missed a follow up punch..prime please..tyson was at the end of hisprime.if it was a bell or curve grafic it would show the big downward slide..buster douglas what prime..a 1 fight prime and that nite he returned to the old douglas against hollifield..a heartless quiter..throwing uppercuts at long distence etc etc..bert cooper who knocked him down..a plow horse top tier club fighter..mike dokes was very talented in his youth..the time he fought hollifield he was well past his best..drugs partying and disipline did him in..well past his best yet gave EH fits untill he ran out of gas.vaughn bean..thats a joke..rated somehow number 1 when 10th or 12 th was accurate and it goes the distance with a fighter who never had a prime..ray merser..he started fighting very very late in life.he peaked at the morrison fight and was downhill from there..lewis yes was in his prime and realy beat EH twice..soo its not a win over a fighter in his better years..ruiz..did he even have a prime.

im not a fan of lewis but at least galota ruddick were at the top of there game ..mediocre talent at times yes....to say now tyson in your book is out of the top 30 and 50 of all the HWS is said realy based on dislike or hatred towards him and not facts..tyson im far from a fan and rooted against him in most of his fights..the lewis fight i rooted for him but not top 30 or 50..come on..when ranking fighters too many timesw folks get confused saying xy z fighter could beat him..its not a case sometimes of who can beat who.
so outside the names mentioned give me 20 tyson..if you feel max baer or smelling were then that says something to me..is it patterson ingo sharkey burns corbett fitz hart galento norton williams simon layne valdes gunboat smith willie meehan tom sharkey arthuro godoy .ceasor brion farr john l sullivan joe jeanette..etc etc which one or more of thoses are greater than tyson..bearcat wright canera spinks cooney any others...see what i mean..you a great fan but tyson not in the top 50 maybe but surely not top 30..lets then place him at 40..i doubt very much any boxing historian or poster here will agree mikes number 40...

Dmar I am a Tyson fan. I really enjoyed watching the guy. But I am not dellusional. Tyson is not anywhere close to the top 30.
Lets just name all the fighters in his era that were better than him.
Holy
Lewis
Bowe
Foreman
So he is like the 5th maybe 4th, if you throw out Foreman, best of his own era. How the hell can a guy who is 4 or 5 in his own era rank higher than 30? We are talking about over 100 years of boxing here.

sooner im not so sure bowe ranks higher than mike or should rank higher then mike..a lot of names have been mentioned that the posters here feel at HW rank higher then mike..ill agree with all the names except bowe and certainly fitz..now thats a joke indeed..lankford was the greater fighter but like i said sam deserves a placing at LH which he mostly was or less at middle..i count in no peticular order johnson jeffries dempsey tunney louis charles walcott marciano liston ali foreman frazier holmes lewis hollifield as named pro along with that..thats 15 names ..ok for the sake of debate lets even say bowe which ill disagree on but thats 16..ok i said harry wills is a top 20 hw so like bowe likes make that 17.....im still waiting for at least 13 more names..that places mike at 31 if you can give me 30 names that are greater and its not fill in the blanks type of thing..ill need 33 more names if you actualy realy feel its a strech to put mike in the top 50..now 33 more is impossible even you know that..you can even say the 2 K brothers but i dont think so..but given you a huge benefit of the doubt even on that it makes mike a top 20 of all time..you just proved it by not coming up with all thoses names and i have big doubts on 3 of them thus puting mike at 17..hes for sure a top 20 no matter what..thats where he belongs top 20..prove me wrong..im not picking on you but to say you dont think a top 30 or even a top 50 is possibly streching things for mike is a statement thats empty..

its as empty as someone saying dave kingman was one of the 10 greatest baseball players of all time..

dmar5143 wrote:

sooner im not so sure bowe ranks higher than mike or should rank higher then mike..a lot of names have been mentioned that the posters here feel at HW rank higher then mike..ill agree with all the names except bowe and certainly fitz..now thats a joke indeed..lankford was the greater fighter but like i said sam deserves a placing at LH which he mostly was or less at middle..i count in no peticular order johnson jeffries dempsey tunney louis charles walcott marciano liston ali foreman frazier holmes lewis hollifield as named pro along with that..thats 15 names ..ok for the sake of debate lets even say bowe which ill disagree on but thats 16..ok i said harry wills is a top 20 hw so like bowe likes make that 17.....im still waiting for at least 13 more names..that places mike at 31 if you can give me 30 names that are greater and its not fill in the blanks type of thing..ill need 33 more names if you actualy realy feel its a strech to put mike in the top 50..now 33 more is impossible even you know that..you can even say the 2 K brothers but i dont think so..but given you a huge benefit of the doubt even on that it makes mike a top 20 of all time..you just proved it by not coming up with all thoses names and i have big doubts on 3 of them thus puting mike at 17..hes for sure a top 20 no matter what..thats where he belongs top 20..prove me wrong..im not picking on you but to say you dont think a top 30 or even a top 50 is possibly streching things for mike is a statement thats empty..

its as empty as someone saying dave kingman was one of the 10 greatest baseball players of all time..

Both Klits are way ahead of tyson. You need to look at what Tyson did, not what he could have done. He never beat one single great HW ever. HOW can he be one of the best HW's ever without beating anyone?

So with the Klits we are now on 19. So I need 11 names to put him out of the top 30. OK Baer, Schmeling, Corbett, Liston, Sullivan, Fitz, Patterson, Carnera, Moorer (maybe), Braddock (that might be a stretch) Ok So I made it to 11. SO he is number 31. LOL That is still FAR from the top 15 even if you take out a couple.

Whats funny is I constantly see lists of these so called historians that will put him above guys like Marciano. I once saw a list of the top 10 HW's ever by Manny Steward. Marciano was not even on the list. BUT Mike Tyson was. What a fucking joke.

lol sooner the discussion my good friend is over..the K brothers also by the way have not beat any great heavyweight.patterson sullivan fitz lol come on baer who did baer beat that was great also. corbett is a joke liston was already named..you are showing your desperation by saying maybe moorer hmm bradock as a stretch again canera..if i had to make a list of the worst 7 legit heavy champs canera would be on that list..you again proved tysons a top 20 HW where he belongs..manny stewart is a moron..ill place mike at 17..you teach history and track..certinaly not math lol..you named 10 and liston was already mentioned by me and others..that leaves 9 and all 9 are not ahead of mike ..canera sooner dont embares yourself please.

I put Lewis in my top 5-15 range. He was very strong, and had good hands and feet for his size. He was the best of his time in a fairly competitive era, so that counts for a lot.

dmar5143 wrote:

lol sooner the discussion my good friend is over..the K brothers also by the way have not beat any great heavyweight.patterson sullivan fitz lol come on baer who did baer beat that was great also. corbett is a joke liston was already named..you are showing your desperation by saying maybe moorer hmm bradock as a stretch again canera..if i had to make a list of the worst 7 legit heavy champs canera would be on that list..you again proved tysons a top 20 HW where he belongs..manny stewart is a moron..ill place mike at 17..you teach history and track..certinaly not math lol..you named 10 and liston was already mentioned by me and others..that leaves 9 and all 9 are not ahead of mike ..canera sooner dont embares yourself please.

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I dont see how a guy like Tyson who never beat anyone is so far ahead of the guys I mentioned. Thats the joke. The hype of Tyson is so great that no one can see what he really did which is not much.

soonermark890 wrote:

Canvas wrote:

NBrooks5 wrote:

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

who is this directed at? I give the Klitschkos full credit and am convinced they will one day be viewed in much the same way Lewis is now. All three suffered bigotry in their primes. Lewis' career capping victory over a prime Vitali gets better each passing year.

Except for the fact that Lewis was getting his ass kicked in that fight and is lucky to have won. Also he ducked him into retirement. I say that is one of the reasons Lennox gets bashed.

Yeah he got real lucky by ripping a hole in Vitali's face

3 questions.

(1)Did anyone notice that Lennox Lewis defeated every man he ever fought and retired as champion?

(2) Did anyone take note that nobody would fight Lennox until they were forced to following his status as the recognized Heavyweight Champion?

(3) Did anyone notice that Vitali Klit's face was falling off in his fight against Lennox Lewis and this was the reason the fight was stopped? Maybe it's just me, but either one or two things happened in this fight. Vitali's trainer secretly shot him in the corner, or Lennox beat the hell out of him. My guess is that it's the latter, but what do I know?

I agree with all of the above. And there are plenty of Tyson threads to debate his rank. Lennox was a great fighter.

He retired at age 38 as heavyweight champ having just defeated the toughest young challenger(and future great) in the world and he gets called a ducker. I don't get it.

Lennox had the brains and honesty to realize he was in decline and chose to retire on top with his health intact and wealthy. He (and Calzahge) set the perfect example for other fighters to follow.

Canvas wrote:

He retired at age 38 as heavyweight champ having just defeated the toughest young challenger(and future great) in the world and he gets called a ducker. I don't get it.

Lennox had the brains and honesty to realize he was in decline and chose to retire on top with his health intact and wealthy. He (and Calzahge) set the perfect example for other fighters to follow.

...i agree lenox retired on top and at the right time..he knew that was it and yes other fighters hopefully will follow lennox and joe c...

Lewis rankd outside the top 10. Probably around 15 or so. He had a good career, but look at it this way. Muhammed Ali is generally regarded as the Greatest of all Time along with Louis. It can be argued either way. BUT if Ali had lost by one-punch Ko to Richard Dunn and Jurgin Blinn he is OUT of the conversation and probably not considered top 5. Same for Louis, If Galento one-punched him. Lewis losses to McCall and Rahman when Lewis was absolute physically prime, will forever deny him entry into the top 10.

Gotta mention it too. Holyfield was OLD and on a VERY steep decline when Lewis went 1-1 against him. Lewis cleary deserved the decision in the first fight, but he was clearly outboxed, outpunched, outjabbed and outfought by an old Evander in the rematch. If the first fight never happened, Holyfield would have taken the second fight by unanimous 116-112 decision.

4445Frank wrote:

3 questions.

(1)Did anyone notice that Lennox Lewis defeated every man he ever fought and retired as champion?

(2) Did anyone take note that nobody would fight Lennox until they were forced to following his status as the recognized Heavyweight Champion?

(3) Did anyone notice that Vitali Klit's face was falling off in his fight against Lennox Lewis and this was the reason the fight was stopped? Maybe it's just me, but either one or two things happened in this fight. Vitali's trainer secretly shot him in the corner, or Lennox beat the hell out of him. My guess is that it's the latter, but what do I know?

I agree with all that. That's why he's as high as 15ish despite getting KO'd in his prime by two journeymen. It's hardly an insult.

top 20 HWs in my opinion

everyone says oh he was lucky to beat Vitali

lets examine this

the fattest, most out of shape Lennox ever damn near punched a prime Vitalis eye off

a cut developed..lets not get carried away bird...lenox was behind i felt by 1 point not getting his ass kicked per sooner....both fighters were running out of gas..lewis wasnt used to a fast paced fight.both were ready to go but missed follow up punches in the last few rounds...at the time of the stopadge it looked like lewis had a little more left then vitali who also was tireing..what fucking fight where they watching.both got there asses kicked both were low on gas and lewis wasnt fat.

that was one of the worst cuts ive seen in recent memory, I remember Vitali landing nice right hands but Lennox was fat and still landing the ol Manny Steward right straight left hook, hooks, and uppercuts

go look it up

fattest weight of Lennoxs career 250 +

hes 6 foot 5 plus.gets a little older and puts on a little weight..9 pounds thats not fat..ever think maybe because he was fighting a bigger guy he thought a few extra pounds was needed..ive seen several cuts as bad..in the third fight with leanord duran with about 15 seconds left hits ray flush and his eye lid exploeded with a bad cut..did old man duran punch rays eye out...nope...your being to dramatic here...cuts happen even bad ones..1 punch is all you need...fat is aerola toney butterbean..was marquez fat when he fought floyd..lewis increased his weight by 4 percent marquez by 9 percent...132 to 144.

both were floundering and sloppy..i havent seen it since it happened..you go rewatch it...my memories excellent.

hahah just telling ya Lewis was flabby in that fight and the heaviest of his career if your arguieng that your memory aint as good as ya think

lewis weight 3 and a half pounds more than he did 6 years ago against mccal..5 pounds heavier then he did a few years earlier in the second rahdman fight..he weight a whole huge 3 and a half pounds more then he did 6 years ago..thats getting fat huh..give me a break.

so he wasnt flabby and the heaviest of his career?

someone cant admit it

nope he want flaby..he weighed 3 n a half pounds more then he did 6 years earlier ..yes thats his heaviest by 3 and a half pounds more then before..you make it sound like that 3 pounds is 50 and out of shape..see my memory isnt that bad and im 3 times your age lol..

dont give me an invalid exuse why klitchko gave him a hell of a fight..