What level boxer all-time is Lennox Lewis as a HW?

4445Frank wrote:

I think when you put together a list of ATG heavyweights, the question is what style would be most effective against all other styles. For example, would Jersey Joe Walcott be an easy fight for anyone? The answer is no. Sure, Joe Louis was a great champion but looking at his fights against Jersey Joe and Billy Conn, I don't think any of you would put money on him against Ali. However, not all boxers are full proof. Say what you want about Larry Holmes, but he got caught with flush shots and probably wouldn't do very well with a iron fisted champion that could cut off the ring (make Larry take 4 steps for his one). Lennox Lewis? Not a mystery. Out of shape, he was a disaster. He was knocked out by Oliver M. and Rachman. In shape, well, there's a reason he never faced a man he didn't beat. He took the best of a new and improved Ray Mercer, knocked out Tyson, took care of Holyfield, and many other fighters who'd have little trouble with the men that beat him. I think his style would've troubled ANY HW. Picture Dempsey trying to get best the Lewis jab or an out jabbed Holmes. Lewis will be forever underrated for a lot of reasons, however, You Tube is a click away. Watch all these fights again and compare champs. Not that he's the best ever, but nobody would've wanted any part of Lewis. Nobody.

I disagree. I think Lewis had a glass jaw. I think most of the greats would have KO'd him easy. Lewis avoided fighting anyone that was in their prime. Like when he beat Rahman. He decided to fight the guy who just got knocked out of the fucking ring by Oleg instead of fighting anyone credible. I look at the ATG's and see a bunch of guys who would have cleaned his clock. How would he do against Ali? Marciano? Louis? Frazier? Big George? He would have been killed. I think the guy is overrated. Does anyone remember how he avoided the best guys until they were done?

Does anyone remember how he avoided the best guys until they were done?

to use some Lennox words:

DEFINITELY

ABSOLUTELY


Lennox was not that appreciated for alot of his career, but a win against a shot Tyson and over Vitali Klitschko and people started giving him too much credit.

captainanddew wrote:

Does anyone remember how he avoided the best guys until they were done?

to use some Lennox words:

DEFINITELY

ABSOLUTELY


Lennox was not that appreciated for alot of his career, but a win against a shot Tyson and over Vitali Klitschko and people started giving him too much credit.

Vitali was kicking his ass too.

simply put.lennox lewis anywhere from 13 to 15..

dmar5143 wrote:

simply put.lennox lewis anywhere from 13 to 15..

I cant believe you put him that high.

Damn some1 got this thread back out LOL???

why is that..thats where i place him..its a fair honest and very knowledgeable assesment...some fans vastly overate him some vastly underate him..13-15 is exactly where he belongs.

I havent really seen no 1 vastly overrate him?? He isnt really in any1s top 10 and normally is any where from 11-20 which probably about right for him.

4445Frank wrote:

I think when you put together a list of ATG heavyweights, the question is what style would be most effective against all other styles. For example, would Jersey Joe Walcott be an easy fight for anyone? The answer is no. Sure, Joe Louis was a great champion but looking at his fights against Jersey Joe and Billy Conn, I don't think any of you would put money on him against Ali. However, not all boxers are full proof. Say what you want about Larry Holmes, but he got caught with flush shots and probably wouldn't do very well with a iron fisted champion that could cut off the ring (make Larry take 4 steps for his one). Lennox Lewis? Not a mystery. Out of shape, he was a disaster. He was knocked out by Oliver M. and Rachman. In shape, well, there's a reason he never faced a man he didn't beat. He took the best of a new and improved Ray Mercer, knocked out Tyson, took care of Holyfield, and many other fighters who'd have little trouble with the men that beat him. I think his style would've troubled ANY HW. Picture Dempsey trying to get best the Lewis jab or an out jabbed Holmes. Lewis will be forever underrated for a lot of reasons, however, You Tube is a click away. Watch all these fights again and compare champs. Not that he's the best ever, but nobody would've wanted any part of Lewis. Nobody.

Lewis has two major failings and they are MAJOR failings. The first is he only fights well at a moderate tempo. He got very clumsy and awkward very fast when guys were able to accelerate the pace of the fight. The second is his jaw which is vulnerable. So think of guys who could really push the pace and every one of them troubles him.

dmar5143 wrote:

why is that..thats where i place him..its a fair honest and very knowledgeable assesment...some fans vastly overate him some vastly underate him..13-15 is exactly where he belongs.

I just dont think he is in the top 15 ever. Here are 15 of the greats and I am missing some.
Ok we have. Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano, Foreman, Holmes, Frazier, Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Jim Jefferies, Tunney, Langford, Charles, Walcott, Max Schmeling, Baer
What do you think? Am I off on LL? I just dont see it.

sooner max baer is a joke.schmeling not a top 20 or 25 at all....if we realy want to strech it 14-17 for lewis..and yes im one who thinks tysons a top 20 HW..i consider langford more a LH..and sorry i rate lewis over this boards very popular hollifield.yes listons in the top 12 anyway and harry wills a top 20..or top 16 perhaps.

Lennox was superior to Holyfield, Bowe, and Tyson, which were the best of their era. Ranking ATG's is kind of a waste of time IMO.

Probably a top 10 ATG, but anything that can't be proven can be argued.......


I will say a focused in-shape Lewis could beat anybody and everybody.

Canvas wrote:

Lennox was superior to Holyfield, Bowe, and Tyson, which were the best of their era. Ranking ATG's is kind of a waste of time IMO.

Probably a top 10 ATG, but anything that can't be proven can be argued.......


I will say a focused in-shape Lewis could beat anybody and everybody.

Except a focused Rahman and a drugged up McCall.

canvas lewis was very good..yes a notch above bowe tyson and hollifield..lewis was always in shape..and well focused all the time..so focused to the point and the reason why he fought cautious to extra cautious..now mccall and rahdman did beat a well in shaped fcused lewis..lewis is a excellent comentator but he could not recognize that for 2 and a half rounds rahdman was closing the distence on him with his jab while measuring him for the right hand..as soon as he got the real estate he wanted he nailed lewis.

Lewis was not in shape or very interested in either of those fights.

He was for the rematches.

Dmar, Lewis hardly trained for Rahman 1, he was too busy filming Oceans 11 and partying with Clooney et all..

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

uhuh...was that his excuse...was he the star of the film that consumed a lot of time on the set...the second mccal fight you say he was in great shape.totaly focused...dam mccall had his arms down crying stood there to be hit..did lewis take him out..did not lewis show extra caution even then..what would a tyson done to mccal be extra cautious or foreman liston louis etc all..he was in shape and got koed..early..shortcuts in training show up in the late rounds not the first 5 usualy..the pace was not torrid either..he was outsmarted that night.

Canvas wrote:

Lewis was not in shape or very interested in either of those fights.

He was for the rematches.

But doesn't that fact count? Now you're conceding Lewis was an inconsistent trainer and lacked focus.

Getting knocked senseless by two different mediocrities while in one's prime? That has happened to how many other "great" fighters?

NBrooks5 wrote:

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

That's kinda what I see as well.

dmar5143 wrote:

sooner max baer is a joke.schmeling not a top 20 or 25 at all....if we realy want to strech it 14-17 for lewis..and yes im one who thinks tysons a top 20 HW..i consider langford more a LH..and sorry i rate lewis over this boards very popular hollifield.yes listons in the top 12 anyway and harry wills a top 20..or top 16 perhaps.

See I have a hard time putting him above Holly. He fought everyone in their prime and that to me puts him even or above Lewis.

As for Tyson He was like the 4th or 5 best of his own era. I have a really hard time thinking he is anywhere close to the top 30 or even 50.

NBrooks5 wrote:

Yet you give so little credit for Wlad and Vitali taking Chambers, Arreola, Peter, Rahman, Chagaev and all of those guys out.

I don't think the Klits resumes show any less than Lennox's.

They beat their conquerors and kept fighting.

They aren't leaving any questions. Why Lennox has his mythical image is beyond me.

I would say both Klits have fought more prime comp than Lennox did. Note I said Prime.

b] Lewis avoided fighting anyone that was in their prime[/b].quote]

I have to comment on that. Lennox Lewis was slated to take on the winner of "Holyfield - Bowe I." After Bowe won, he vacated the WBC version of his title rather than fight the man who knocked him out in the Olympics. Also, Don King knew Lewis was the number one contender for the WBC belt upon Mike Tyson's release from jail. Instead of fighting Lewis, Tyson and King paid him a 6 million dollar step aside fee to allow Tyson to take on Bruce Seldon in a farce of a fight. Foreman openly stated that he wouldn't fight Lewis. As far as how Lewis would've done agains the ATGs is a matter of opinion. However, it's almost fact that he may have been the most avoided Heavyweight ever, and certainly the most avoided of his time.

frank 6 million to step asside tells me they didnt start off at that figure.maybe it was one then 2 then 4 finaly 6 is my line of thinking.that would suggest lewis said nooo lets do the fight.for 6 million line up all the fights you can and i would step aside each time for sure..

on hollifield sooner saying at least he fought everyone in there prime..realy.2 old men holmes and foreman early 40s and go the distence with him..foreman one round came close to doing him in but missed a follow up punch..prime please..tyson was at the end of hisprime.if it was a bell or curve grafic it would show the big downward slide..buster douglas what prime..a 1 fight prime and that nite he returned to the old douglas against hollifield..a heartless quiter..throwing uppercuts at long distence etc etc..bert cooper who knocked him down..a plow horse top tier club fighter..mike dokes was very talented in his youth..the time he fought hollifield he was well past his best..drugs partying and disipline did him in..well past his best yet gave EH fits untill he ran out of gas.vaughn bean..thats a joke..rated somehow number 1 when 10th or 12 th was accurate and it goes the distance with a fighter who never had a prime..ray merser..he started fighting very very late in life.he peaked at the morrison fight and was downhill from there..lewis yes was in his prime and realy beat EH twice..soo its not a win over a fighter in his better years..ruiz..did he even have a prime.

im not a fan of lewis but at least galota ruddick were at the top of there game ..mediocre talent at times yes....to say now tyson in your book is out of the top 30 and 50 of all the HWS is said realy based on dislike or hatred towards him and not facts..tyson im far from a fan and rooted against him in most of his fights..the lewis fight i rooted for him but not top 30 or 50..come on..when ranking fighters too many timesw folks get confused saying xy z fighter could beat him..its not a case sometimes of who can beat who.
so outside the names mentioned give me 20 tyson..if you feel max baer or smelling were then that says something to me..is it patterson ingo sharkey burns corbett fitz hart galento norton williams simon layne valdes gunboat smith willie meehan tom sharkey arthuro godoy .ceasor brion farr john l sullivan joe jeanette..etc etc which one or more of thoses are greater than tyson..bearcat wright canera spinks cooney any others...see what i mean..you a great fan but tyson not in the top 50 maybe but surely not top 30..lets then place him at 40..i doubt very much any boxing historian or poster here will agree mikes number 40...

The Lewis losses don't bother me as he avenged them quickly and conclusively. There is no doubt he clearly handled Holyfield and Tyson. As Frank mentioned, Tyson, Foreman, and Bowe all made moves to avoid Lewis earlier.

What I don't understand is the adoration for everything Holyfield. I was a big fan and excited by Holyfield when he started his heavyweight campaign. Unfortunately his disgusting title reign of hand picked opponents turned me off of him and I could never look at him the same. He has also received some very questionable decisions. I felt he lost all 3 fights to Bowe and both fights to Lewis. He got an absolute gift against Fres Oqeundo. The only time Evander ever was robbed was versus Valuev.