Nick Diaz vs. Marius Zaromskis at Strikeforce: Miami

The argument had changed, when u started acting like Shamrck is a good fighter, "Shamrock would destroy anyone in this discussion period without broken ribs. Dude had no business fighting at all. The Sham that killed Baroni and battled Le would run Nick Diaz. Not even on the same level." He beat Baroni, he beat Baroni, OMG, OMG! give me a break. And Mach is still pretty good, def better than any of those 5 opponents, as stated, and High is a pretty good fighter himself. Give up already bro, my god

Shamrock would smash those dudes without busted ribs if he is as good as he was a couple years ago. Lookin super old in the face lately though, so less enthusiastic about his future admittedly.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

You're twisting the argument again. This was specifically about striking skills in relation to Diaz's opponents and Maruis. I still believe the Shamrock who fought between 06 and 08 would contend with a large portion of the MW division in the UFC. His hand speed hadn't slowed, his chin wasn't a question, and his ground game is renowned. There isn't an argument that is convincing otherwise besides inactivity and speculation.

Do I believe in 2010 Cung le and Frank Shamrock can contend with the best in the world in a complete MMA fight? Doubtful given father time. Even if Shamrock was a top 20 talent then, which I believe he was, I still find it hard to see him being one going forward given the age process.

But good job and not doing well in the discussion at hand, and changing the debate to "are they good fighters". Like changing "do the Rangers have a good offense" to "are the rangers a world series contender".

And before Zaromskis beat the fading Mach, Jason Who and Who Be Myon?, what was he ranked I wonder? Shamrock and Le's resumes are tenfold over anything on Marius' or any of the guys he has faced, and are ten times the striker Diaz or Zaromskis are when healthy.

Cung Le fights Cage Rage level fighters in Strikeforce and he is a joke, Zaromskis fights Cage Rage level fighters in Cage Rage and he is the next Shogun.

Come on Wolf. Do you even believe the non sense your writing? Cung has a better resume than Marius? Take away the Shamrock win and you have him beating a bunch cans who are all natural welterweights. Frank like I said before hasn't beat a decent fighter since 1999. You are really stretching on this one.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Shamrock would smash those dudes without busted ribs if he is as good as he was a couple years ago. Lookin super old in the face lately though, so less enthusiastic about his future admittedly.

Based on what performance? Are you basing it all off of his fight with Le?

He'll never admit he's wrong Ninja, even if he knows it, I'm done with this thread

Ninja, with Le's resume I am more talking about his total fight resume and not his MMA resume, shoulda been clear there.

Ya, the fight with Le and Baroni, and yes, yes, yes, we all know Baroni sucks, but Frank utterly toyed with him like you'd expect an elite fighter too. He fights every so often, looks impressive and doesn't show any decline. Hasn't take blows to the head. Frank is one of the greatest of all time and was the best fighter in a weightclass he was too small for in 2000 and probably in any weightclass, without ruining his body while staying moderately active with mixed martial arts, so maybe I give him the benefit of the doubt somewhat, but I find it hard to believe based on anything my eyes have seen to think Shamrock in 2007 or 8 wasn't at least a top 25 fighter in the MW division.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

The use of Baroni to support an argument is just comical

Let it end already, u two, are the only two delusional people who think either Cung or Shamrock are good fighters.

Neither of these guys is even in the Top 40 MWs

Most of my points in this thread are counterpoints.

The whole Diaz's striking is more annoyance then power is rediculous considering his KO%. And while Diaz may not have great striking skills per se, his length gives many a fighter problems. And his power is at worst deceiving.

My support of Shamrock vs Baroni was in response to Ninja's stance that Baroni tired in that fight. Which did not happen. Baroni was the walking dead due to the beating Shamrock layed down.

Le dropped himself out of any ranking due to his desire to make movies, and then coming into a fight not ready to go more then 4 minutes. But to deny his talent in general, and his striking skills in particular is straight stubborness.

Look, to be clear about my comment regarding Diaz's lack of power. His KO% has no bearing on his power. Most of his KO's and stoppages due to strikes were due to accumulated damage over several minutes/rounds. He doesn't hit hard, that is apparent from both the Shamrock fight and the Scott Smith fight. Let me say that again, he is not a strong puncher. He uses his length and pitter patters people to death. He hit smith with what, 800 punches? Name me a strong puncher who has hit an opponent with 800 punches and I'll show you a dead opponent.

I agree with ChaosCamel on this one. Nick Diaz hits like a bitch. He just happens to use his length well to avoid getting hit while hitting his opponent a trillion times.

yeah it should be noted that Smith's rock hard chin is well known, and both he and Shamrock are natural 185ers while Diaz is a natural 170. But if you guys want to ignore the facts, and say a guy who knocks out dudes on the regular "hits like a bitch" then so be it.

Duly noted, yet unconvinced.

captain organic wrote:

yeah it should be noted that Smith's rock hard chin is well known, and both he and Shamrock are natural 185ers while Diaz is a natural 170. But if you guys want to ignore the facts, and say a guy who knocks out dudes on the regular "hits like a bitch" then so be it.

Smith is a hard guy to knock out, but he is easily rocked. He has be rocked in fights with Cung, Diaz, Radach, Sell, Lawler in both fights, Terrell, Cotto, and was knocked out by Irvin.

He is easily rocked because he isn't very good, but he doesn't give up and people get too overconfident or gassed and make mistakes. Smith has made a living from those mistakes. I can't see this continuing and am surprised its lasted this long.

Farmer1906 wrote:

He is easily rocked because he isn't very good, but he doesn't give up and people get too overconfident or gassed and make mistakes. Smith has made a living from those mistakes. I can't see this continuing and am surprised its lasted this long.

The hands of steel help too. If you're going to bring 2 things into the cage, a good chin and KO power are good choices.

captain organic wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

He is easily rocked because he isn't very good, but he doesn't give up and people get too overconfident or gassed and make mistakes. Smith has made a living from those mistakes. I can't see this continuing and am surprised its lasted this long.

The hands of steel help too. If you're going to bring 2 things into the cage, a good chin and KO power are good choices.

Technique beats sloppy KO power more times than not though.

WOW I mean yeah Nick doesn't have the heaviest of hands but you guys are selling him sort. Nick doesn't throw with all his power in every punch he sets his power up.

Chorky777 Diaz hits like a bitch- Ask Robbie Lawler if Nick hits like bitch