Gun Laws

im pretty sure there was an executive order passed by Obama stating it was illegal to have more than a 7 round clip for any type of gun.

Which is ridiculous imo, because most guns especially rifles are at least 10 round clips. Which makes my little 22 hunting rifle illegal if I have a full clip instead of 7 rounds in it.

Im not positive if that is in effect yet though cause when I was at the range recently everyone seemed to be loading full clips.

oggy420 wrote:

im pretty sure there was an executive order passed by Obama stating it was illegal to have more than a 7 round clip for any type of gun.

Which is ridiculous imo, because most guns especially rifles are at least 10 round clips. Which makes my little 22 hunting rifle illegal if I have a full clip instead of 7 rounds in it.

Im not positive if that is in effect yet though cause when I was at the range recently everyone seemed to be loading full clips.

Are the laws the same in a controlled environment like a gun range? Seems like in that situation you should be allowed to have a full clip. I understand limiting the number of bullets you can have in a gun in public or at your house. Not saying I agree, just that I get the concept. But at a gun range? That's like limiting the number of golf balls I can buy at a time at a driving range. You pay for it, you are in a controlled environment, you shouldn't have those limitations.

oggy420 wrote:

cheekynffc wrote:

aren't you a heavy weed smoker and conspiracy theory obsessive oggy?

would you still be able to legally own a gun if they took a urine sample and examined your browsing habits?

Yes I smoke marijuana, don't see what that has to do with anything.

Yes I believe in conspiracies, don't see what that has to do with anything.

No one is going to take a urine sample. Don't see what that has to do with anything.

Browsing habits? If you are talking about illegal NSA spying, than yea, that is probably going on.

But still, don't see what an illegal spying program has to do with gun ownership.

Read the 2nd amendment some time

It says my right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

It doesn't say shall not be infringed unless you smoke weed, are politically awake, or use a computer.

if you got popped for marijuana wouldn't that give you a criminal record and cause a problem with regards gun ownership?

i also thought you couldn't own a gun if you had a mental illness, you demonstrate a keen sense of paranoia with much of your conspiracy theory babble.

i admire your passion for the gun laws on some level but i'd have thought a drug user predisposed to paranoia would be the among the last people the lawmakers would want handling guns  

Cheeky i went through the proper background checks. I am not a felon, have never been convicted of a crime in my life.

Being politically awake is not a mental illness, thank you for your concern though.

Unfortunately UK culture has apparently brainwashed you that marijuana is an evil drug, that defending yourself against criminals is wrong, and that having an understanding of the political process means you have a mental illness.

Do us Americans a big favor though, make this anti-freedom wanker Piers Morgan leave America and return to the uk. He keeps trying to criminalize gun ownership through media in America.

If we wanted rape and other violent crime to rise like it has in the UK we would ban guns, but Americans have this thing called the bill of rights, and the 2nd amendment. We believe in the right to defend ourselves against criminals.

Moreover, despite the UK having its gun ban, the violent crime rate is still far above that of the United States, and the country has also earned the title of violent crime capital of Europe.

Despite the very strict ban on guns in the UK, the overall rate of violent crime in the UK is about 4 times higher than it is in the United States. In one recent year, there were 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people in the UK. In the United States, there were only 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people during that same year. Do we really want to be more like the UK?

You can be busted for possession of marijuana cheeky without it being a felony. If you get caught with small amounts it's just a misdemeanor. If you have a felony on your record then you can't purchase a gun. It would be insane to deny anyone that has ever been busted for simple possession of marijuana from purchasing a gun.

Approximately 200,000 women in the United States use guns to protect themselves against sexual crime every single year.

The UK has approximately 125 percent more rape victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does.

OU wrote:

You can be busted for possession of marijuana cheeky without it being a felony. If you get caught with small amounts it's just a misdemeanor. If you have a felony on your record then you can't purchase a gun. It would be insane to deny anyone that has ever been busted for simple possession of marijuana from purchasing a gun.

if i get caught with small amounts it isn't even a misdemeanor, it's a violation. Basically the same thing as getting a parking ticket except car insurance rates don't go up.

bollocks, i thought you'd bite harder than that hahaha.

i smoke marijuana and did all the rest of the drugs when i was younger, i've also had episodes of mental illness at various times....... i've neither owned nor attempted to own guns though.

be careful when fabricating facts though. the UK had 722 recorded murders in 2012, at a rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants. 722 was the highest figure in northern europe though nowhere near the number of russia or ukraine and the UK was nowhere near the highest murder rate per head.

the USA recorded 14612 murders at 4.2 per 100,000 inhabitants as per the 2012 figures of the United Nations Office On Drugs & Crime.

the stats are murders as opposed to gun murders but your argument that gun ownership makes for a safer nation clearly holds no water. there were 386 murders in detroit alone in 2012, that's more than half of the total in the entire UK over the same period.

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

You can be busted for possession of marijuana cheeky without it being a felony. If you get caught with small amounts it's just a misdemeanor. If you have a felony on your record then you can't purchase a gun. It would be insane to deny anyone that has ever been busted for simple possession of marijuana from purchasing a gun.

if i get caught with small amounts it isn't even a misdemeanor, it's a violation. Basically the same thing as getting a parking ticket except car insurance rates don't go up.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the weed laws here are much stricter. When my buddy use to go up to Colorado and go to dispensary up there they use to always tell him if you are going to smoke weed get the hell out of Oklahoma. Damn Bible Belt.
Funny though you guys have stricter gun laws, we have stricter weed laws.

cheekynffc wrote:

bollocks, i thought you'd bite harder than that hahaha.

i smoke marijuana and did all the rest of the drugs when i was younger, i've also had episodes of mental illness at various times....... i've neither owned nor attempted to own guns though.

be careful when fabricating facts though. the UK had 722 recorded murders in 2012, at a rate of 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants. 722 was the highest figure in northern europe though nowhere near the number of russia or ukraine and the UK was nowhere near the highest murder rate per head.

the USA recorded 14612 murders at 4.2 per 100,000 inhabitants as per the 2012 figures of the United Nations Office On Drugs & Crime.

the stats are murders as opposed to gun murders but your argument that gun ownership makes for a safer nation clearly holds no water.

we can play this game if you want

- A study published in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policydiscovered that nations that have more guns tend to have less crime.

- The nine European nations with the lowest rate of gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate that is three times greater than the nine European nation with the highest rate of gun ownership.

- The United States is #1 in the world in gun ownership, and yet it is only 28th in the world in gun murders per 100,000 people.

- The violent crime rate in the United States actually fell from 757.7 per 100,000 in 1992 to 386.3 per 100,000 in 2011. During that same time period, the murder rate fell from 9.3 per 100,000 to 4.7 per 100,000.

- Over the past 20 years, gun sales have absolutely exploded, but homicides with firearms are down 39 percent during that time and “other crimes with firearms” are down 69 percent.

- Overall, guns in the United States are used 80 times more often to prevent crime than they are to take lives.



- The UK has approximately 125 percent more rape victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does.

- The UK has approximately 133 percent more assault victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does.

- The UK has the fourth highest burglary rate in the EU.

- The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU.


Shall i continue?

continue if you want,

murders are murders whether committed with a gun or not, you are arguing guns make the public safer but the families of 14,612 americans might beg to differ. the 2012 murder rate in the US was 4 times that of the UK.

these days you can get done for assault for just looking at someone funny and you can get done for sexual assault if you slap a birds arse in a nightclub.

murders are murders, that's black & white. sexual assaults and assaults can encompass more or less anything these days and are much more useful for bending stats to suit your argument.

So i should just disregard the fact that since the UK gun ban violent crime has exploded?

I don't Deny the murder rate, but if you think that is caused by guns you are mistaken.

The city of Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the United States. So has this reduced crime? Of course not. As I wrote about recently, the murder rate in Chicago was about 17 percent higher in 2012 than it was in 2011, and Chicago is now considered to be “the deadliest global city“. If you can believe it, there were about as many murders in Chicago during 2012 as there was in the entire nation of Japan.

The murder rate in the United Sates is due to cities like Chicago, were gangs are killing eachother in the streets at unprecedented rates over who controls what corner to sell drugs.

I've said it before, i'll say it again. End prohibition against illegal drugs and you take the money, the incentive out of it and you wont have people shooting each other every day in cities like Chicago and Detroit.

On the other hand

After the city of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a law requiring every home to have a gun, the crime rate dropped by more than 50 percent over the course of the next 23 years and there was an 89% decline in burglaries.

Because as it turns out, what criminals really fear isn't police or jail, it's being shot when they commit a crime.

I don't blame guns for murders, I blame fucking idiots for murders. I swear the generation between the ages of 14-22 are mindless, soulless goons and one of the worst generations in the history of mankind. We have set a record this year in my town for murders and it's crazy how many murders and violent crimes those youngsters are committing.

kennesaw is a tiny place oggy, population 30,000. 1 less murder in a year likely has a noticeable effect on the crime rate in kennesaw.

as for assaults in the UK, there are numerous reasons for it. we have a generation of nihilistic youth similar to what OU describes and we've been swamped by irresponsible levels of immigration. add to that that we're an island nation, so the working man tends to enjoy a good ruck from time to time.

as i say though, you don't really have to do much to anyone for it to be classed as assault. you can have x amount of recorded assaults but a huge number of those likely weren't assualt by any sane rationale. you can be charged with assault for pushing someone or pointing your finger aggressively. you'd rather have 1000 minor assaults than even one shooting, unless there's something seriously wrong with you.

im not saying the Uk isn't a police state. It is.

But what i am trying to show you is that guns do not equal crime.

When you pass strict gun control laws, it only hurts law abiding citizens, not criminals. Criminals do not get their guns legally.

if just one person was murdered last year in kennesaw, kennesaw's murder rate would be almost twice that of the UK.

that town is far too small a sample to have any relevance at all

over 50% of people incarcerated in the united states are in there due to drug crimes. Then factor how many shootings are gang/drug related and concentrated in low income cities like Chicago and Detroit.

I know you want to paint the picture that Mr and Mrs. America are out there shooting each other down but that is not reality. Gang members killing each other over drugs massively inflates both murder rates and gun crime rates in America.

oggy420 wrote:

im not saying the Uk isn't a police state. It is.

But what i am trying to show you is that guns do not equal crime.

When you pass strict gun control laws, it only hurts law abiding citizens, not criminals. Criminals do not get their guns legally.

Plenty of laws out there are there because the growing number of idiots that fuck shit up for everyone. Certain people shouldn't be allowed to drink, certain people shouldn't smoke weed and certain people shouldn't own a gun. Unfortunately responsible people suffer for the mistake of morons. Someone gets high and runs over a kid on his bike, it's not the weed, it's the fucking moron behind the wheel. A mentally unstable person shoots and kills someone it's not the gun it's the person holding the gun.

OU wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

im not saying the Uk isn't a police state. It is.

But what i am trying to show you is that guns do not equal crime.

When you pass strict gun control laws, it only hurts law abiding citizens, not criminals. Criminals do not get their guns legally.

Plenty of laws out there are there because the growing number of idiots that fuck shit up for everyone. Certain people shouldn't be allowed to drink, certain people shouldn't smoke weed and certain people shouldn't own a gun. Unfortunately responsible people suffer for the mistake of morons. Someone gets high and runs over a kid on his bike, it's not the weed, it's the fucking moron behind the wheel. A mentally unstable person shoots and kills someone it's not the gun it's the person holding the gun.

agreed.

as Rogan often says: if marijuana ruined your life, it just got there before scratch tickets or cheeseburgers.

oggy420 wrote:

OU wrote:

oggy420 wrote:

im not saying the Uk isn't a police state. It is.

But what i am trying to show you is that guns do not equal crime.

When you pass strict gun control laws, it only hurts law abiding citizens, not criminals. Criminals do not get their guns legally.

Plenty of laws out there are there because the growing number of idiots that fuck shit up for everyone. Certain people shouldn't be allowed to drink, certain people shouldn't smoke weed and certain people shouldn't own a gun. Unfortunately responsible people suffer for the mistake of morons. Someone gets high and runs over a kid on his bike, it's not the weed, it's the fucking moron behind the wheel. A mentally unstable person shoots and kills someone it's not the gun it's the person holding the gun.

agreed.

as Rogan often says: if marijuana ruined your life, it just got there before scratcher tickets or cheeseburgers.

Exactly. Idiots are going to be idiots no matter what. I wish there was a way for me to get super stoned and then take a drivers test so I could legally drive while high. My reaction time and driver safety would still be well above the average driver. Give me a written test or something I'll score above average no problem. But my tolerance and ability to act responsibly is not a factor. Some people out there should not be allowed to drive. But me while high isn't one of them.

Some real facts on guns in America, no b.s. , no fear mongering.

U.S. is first in amount of firearms owned and 28th for firearms related homicides

-  The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people

-  But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people

•CDC - No Proof Gun Laws Reduce Violence: A sweeping federal review of the nation's gun control laws — including mandatory waiting periods and bans on certain weapons — found no proof such measures reduce firearm violence. The review was conducted by a task force of scientists appointed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

•Crime Since the AWB Expired: Since the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired in September 2004, murder and overall violent-crime rates have fallen. In 2003, the last full year before the law expired, the U.S. murder rate was 5.7 per 100,000 people, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Uniform Crime Report. By 2011, the murder rate fell to 4.7 per 100,000 people. One should also bear in mind that just 2.6% of all murders are committed using any type of rifle.

"Assault Weapon" Info: AR-15 and other MSR style rifles are no more powerful than other hunting rifles of the same caliber and in most cases are chambered in calibers less powerful than common big-game hunting cartridges like the 30-06 Springfield and .300 Winchester Mag. AR-15 and other MSR style rifles are NOT "assault weapons" or "assault rifles." An assault rifle is fully automatic and more commonly referred to as a machine gun. Machine guns have been severely restricted from civilian ownership since 1934, obtaining a permit to own one is an arduous, time intensive and expensive process.

•The gun-show loophole myth: The “gun-show loophole” is an exaggeration designed to foster the false impression that this is how the bad guys acquire firearms. A 2001 Justice Department survey found 0.7 percent of state and federal prison inmates bought their weapons at a gun show. Also, all federally licensed firearms dealers must follow existing state and federal regulations pertaining to the sale of firearms, including background checks for the sale of firearms regardless of location.

Fuck a riffle, you want to do damage get a shotgun. They have a good spread.

oggy420 wrote:

over 50% of people incarcerated in the united states are in there due to drug crimes. Then factor how many shootings are gang/drug related and concentrated in low income cities like Chicago and Detroit.

I know you want to paint the picture that Mr and Mrs. America are out there shooting each other down but that is not reality. Gang members killing each other over drugs massively inflates both murder rates and gun crime rates in America.

there are competing drug gangs in every country in the world.

shootings do happen in the UK, but the vast majority of violent crime is committed by either the fist and the boot, knives or improvised blunt/sharp objects. guns are rare, criminals know it's a mandatory 5 years if you get caught with one so even they don't do it casually.

i agree that crazy fuckers will do crazy things, if detroit gangstas didn't have guns they'd use knives and baseball bats instead, that's what they do in half the rest of the world. but they use guns because they're so easy to get hold of.

the only credible argument against gun control is that the situation is already way out of control to the extent there's no going back now, and i'm starting to err that way myself now i've written it out and read it back  

OU wrote:

Fuck a riffle, you want to do damage get a shotgun. They have a good spread.

you don't miss from a few meters with a sawn off.