Girl suspended for nose piercing... Claims religious freedom

Wolfgangsta wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Sorry Wolf....you cannot wear your little hat in school.

I'd just as soon nuke Israel bro, I'd just let the survivors wear their hats. Don't get it twisted.

mazel tov!

malatov! cocktail...for a pizza parlor in an illegal Israeli settlement.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

A Parents Guide:

The National Congress of Parents and Teachers, and the Freedom Forum's First Amendment Center jointly published "A Parents Guide to Religion in the Public Schools." It states in section 11: "Students who must wear religious garb such as head scarves or yarmulkes should be permitted to do so in school. Students may also display religious messages on clothing to the same extent that other messages are permitted." The First Amendment Center also lists other materials on religion and the public schools of interest to teachers and administrators. 7

religioustolerance.org

Quote :

"Schools enjoy substantial discretion in adopting policies relating to student dress and school uniforms. Students generally have no Federal right to be exempted from religiously-neutral and generally applicable school dress rules based on their religious beliefs or practices; however, schools may not single out religious attire in general, or attire of a particular religion, for prohibition or regulation. Students may display religious messages on items of clothing to the same extent that they are permitted to display other comparable messages. Religious messages may not be singled out for suppression, but rather are subject to the same rules as generally apply to comparable messages." (Emphasis ours).

religoustolerance.org

The RFRA unfortunately has been partially repealed, but if this ever became an issue, the supreme court unequivocally would rule in favor of the Jewish kid. Period.

As evidenced by

Quote :

TULSA, Okla. — The Muskogee school system has agreed to pay an undisclosed sum and change its dress code to settle a lawsuit involving a sixth-grade Muslim girl who was suspended for wearing a religious head scarf to school, officials announced yesterday.

"We are happy and glad it's over," said Rose Hearn, whose daughter Nashala Hearn was the focus of the case. "My daughter stands up for what she believes in."

The agreement requires the Muskogee Public School District to change its dress code to allow exceptions for religious reasons, said R. Alexander Acosta, assistant U.S. attorney general for civil rights.

"This settlement reaffirms the principle that public schools cannot require students to check their faith at the schoolhouse door," he said.

Acosta said school officials raised their initial objections on Sept. 11, 2003 — exactly two years after the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington — even though the girl had worn the scarf for several weeks. The officials, Acosta said, told her that other students were "frightened" by her scarf.

"It is un-American to fear and to hate," Acosta said.

Hearn has been allowed to wear the scarf pending settlement of her lawsuit, which sought $80,000 in damages and requested the dress-code changes. The Justice Department joined the lawsuit in March. The settlement was filed in U.S. District Court in Muskogee.

The Rutherford Institute, a Virginia-based civil liberties group, sued the district in federal court on the Hearn family's behalf in October, claiming the district's dress code violates Nashala's rights to free speech and exercise of religion.

The district suspended Hearn twice in October for wearing a head scarf to Benjamin Franklin Science Academy that officials believed violated the district's dress code.

The sixth-grader wears the hijab as part of her observance of the Muslim religion. She was allowed to continue wearing the scarf after returning to school but the district's policy has remained intact.

"It's been hard on her," Rose Hearn said. "She lives day by day with her head up high. I tell her she's got to be strong.

"Every day there is a lot of discrimination going around. People just need to get along, no matter what your race or religion."

The settlement requires the district to put in place a training program for all teachers and administrators about the new dress code and to publicize the change.

Muskogee Superintendent Eldon Gleichman said yesterday that he could not comment on the settlement because he had not yet received a copy of it. In the past, he has said the district's ban on headwear is fair and consistent. He has said other groups, including gangs and Satanists, could take advantage of any change in the headwear policy.

A recently passed law in France forbids conspicuous religious symbols and clothing in schools. The law was enacted mainly to defuse controversy about Muslim head scarves but also applies to such things as the Jewish yarmulke and large Christian crosses.

The Justice Department has taken pains after the Sept. 11 attacks to address complaints of discrimination and hate crimes brought by Arab-Americans and other Muslims. Some Muslim groups have been critical of government anti-terrorism efforts as singling them out for harsh treatment and extra scrutiny.

Soonermark, admitting you are wrong isn't a sign of weakness, but going down with your ship in the face such things is.


You're up to 2.5 million dollars.

And again none of that means jack shit. If its not a supreme court rulling it means nothing. Good luck making it to a court decision anyways. Besides Wolf I said that I think they should be able to. I just know they cant. If someone challenges it fine but right now you dont know a damn thing about it.

Quote :

And again none of that means jack shit. If its not a supreme court rulling it means nothing. Good luck making it to a court decision anyways. Besides Wolf I said that I think they should be able to. I just know they cant. If someone challenges it fine but right now you dont know a damn thing about it.

You've painted yourself into a corner and are just blabbing lalalala with your fingers in your ears at this stage. The only reason there was not a court decision in this this decade is the school caved before it made it that far. What you're arguing is out of step with every modern trend in Education and our government's view on religious freedom.

You're creating an "out" to not "lose" this discussion here by creating an arbitrary qualifier that a supreme court case is the only way I'd be right. That is petty.

Again, the Justice Department specifically joined with the kid being oppressed. Are you an Oki just like SOONERs? I know I was able to slay his position with that link, as that case is precedent in all of Oklahoma.


If today you told a kid to take his yamaka off, he would refuse, he would sue, you would likely lose your job, this would be debated on Fox News and CNN, where you would be painted as a Nazi, the Justice Department would join the case and the kid would be wearing his Yamaka and all this would happen before the first report cards were issued.

soonermark, have you asked your boss about this? What state do you live in?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

And again none of that means jack shit. If its not a supreme court rulling it means nothing. Good luck making it to a court decision anyways. Besides Wolf I said that I think they should be able to. I just know they cant. If someone challenges it fine but right now you dont know a damn thing about it.

You've painted yourself into a corner and are just blabbing lalalala with your fingers in your ears at this stage. The only reason there was not a court decision in this this decade is the school caved before it made it that far. What you're arguing is out of step with every modern trend in Education and our government's view on religious freedom.

You're creating an "out" to not "lose" this discussion here by creating an arbitrary qualifier that a supreme court case is the only way I'd be right. That is petty.

Again, the Justice Department specifically joined with the kid being oppressed. Are you an Oki just like SOONERs? I know I was able to slay his position with that link, as that case is precedent in all of Oklahoma.


If today you told a kid to take his yamaka off, he would refuse, he would sue, you would likely lose your job, this would be debated on Fox News and CNN, where you would be painted as a Nazi, the Justice Department would join the case and the kid would be wearing his Yamaka and all this would happen before the first report cards were issued.

To be a precedent it would have to go to court Wolf. I hope you know that.
BTW no I wouldnt lose my job over something that has no precedent because it has not been to the supreme court yet. I really hope you understand how the legal system works. Its awesome how you avoid the fact that there is no precedent set by any court and I love how you fail to understand that right now the schools can say no hats (including Yamaka).

Ok Back on the topic. Whats going on with the girl? My bet is that she will have to remove it and then she will have to return to school.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

soonermark, have you asked your boss about this? What state do you live in?

Didnt I already answer this? Go back and read my posts.

Oh BTW I asked my jewish student today about why he doesnt wear his Yamaka and his answer was "We cant wear hats in school." LOL not that it means shit he is a 15 year old kid. I just thought it was funny.

I should have been clear, it wouldn't be a binding legal precedent that a court would follow, but in terms of an Oklahoma school it would be persuasive precedent. As in, a school would know about the Justice Department throwing the hammer down on that Oklahoma school which tried to stop that girl from wearing her headgear and wouldn't dare make a stink about it as they would rightfully know they would also face a federal lawsuit.


I hope that Jewish kid walks into class tomorrow with a yamaka on. A Yamaka ISN'T A HAT. It is protected first amendment religious expression. The case in Oklahoma proves that.

Did you not read what happened in Oklahoma? Are you cut and pasting the elements of this thread that don't make you completely and totally wrong?

The Feds sued when this was attempted in Oklahoma, why wouldn't they do it it again here?


I must have missed where you are from, repost it.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I should have been clear, it wouldn't be a binding legal precedent that a court would follow, but in terms of an Oklahoma school it would be persuasive precedent. As in, a school would know about the Justice Department throwing the hammer down on that Oklahoma school which tried to stop that girl from wearing her headgear and wouldn't dare make a stink about it as they would rightfully know they would also face a federal lawsuit.


I hope that Jewish kid walks into class tomorrow with a yamaka on. A Yamaka ISN'T A HAT. It is protected first amendment religious expression. The case in Oklahoma proves that.

Did you not read what happened in Oklahoma? Are you cut and pasting the elements of this thread that don't make you completely and totally wrong?

The Feds sued when this was attempted in Oklahoma, why wouldn't they do it it again here?


I must have missed where you are from, repost it.

I dont disagree with you on the point you are making here. IF the kid fought it I would not doubt that they would side with the kid. BUT the point I made was right now not ifs and buts. Secondly, If that kid does come in with it on I would probably support him to be honest. I never said I was on the schools side. Hell I usually am not on the schools side. But again I know exactly how this shit works.

I live in Oklahoma Wolf.

I knew we'd reach an understanding. Glad I could help.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I knew we'd reach an understanding. Glad I could help.

LOL all you had to do is ask what side I would be on?

Ya. Sure. I would let you save face on this if you didn't call me a bigot for absolutely literally only saying 100% truths about the social problems of the homosexual community.

Quote :

You dont know shit about this do you? Who pays for our schools? THE STATE DOES. So yes it does wolf.


Yamakas are considered a hat by the schools. I know the law and the court cases wolf maybe you should do some research like I said. Schools are not the same as regular society. They override a ton of rights in order to educate students. So stop talking out of your ass about shit you dont know a damn thing about.

Then I posted a specific example from your own state where a kid successfully sued and was allowed to continue to wear her "hat". Clearly something you hadn't heard about. Then your tune changed to "well you're right they'd probably win".

You flat out lost this one, and I am in the process of smoking you in all those other threads too.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya. Sure. I would let you save face on this if you didn't call me a bigot for absolutely literally only saying 100% truths about the social problems of the homosexual community.

Quote :

You dont know shit about this do you? Who pays for our schools? THE STATE DOES. So yes it does wolf.


Yamakas are considered a hat by the schools. I know the law and the court cases wolf maybe you should do some research like I said. Schools are not the same as regular society. They override a ton of rights in order to educate students. So stop talking out of your ass about shit you dont know a damn thing about.

Then I posted a specific example from your own state where a kid successfully sued and was allowed to continue to wear her "hat". Clearly something you hadn't heard about. Then your tune changed to "well you're right they'd probably win".

You flat out lost this one, and I am in the process of smoking you in all those other threads too.

Man you are crazy. I am not kidding I think you have problems. You need to get help Wolf.

LOL.



The trilogy of threads between you and me have been utterly epic if not one sided. Thanks for the entertainment.

ttt