Lesnar is 2-7, 28% on takedown attempts vs wrestlers in the UFC.

jimbojones1950 wrote:

Realistically, Carwin only defended takedowns against Lesnar in the first round when Lesnar was visibly hurt and was dropping levels to avoid further punishment. Of course Carwin was going to stop his takedowns when he was hurt. In the second round, not seeing stars, Lesnar took him down quickly (or is the excuse that Carwin was gassed?). Anyway, Wolf is right that Cain has better technical skills in wrestling, but will that be enough? Cain was skillwise better then Konrad when they wrestled in the semis of NCAA's, but still lost, because of the size disadvantage. Also, you cannot call a NCAA Division 1 National Champion's wrestling overrated. I think this is a great fight and if Cain wins, it will be with his hands and activity imo. These stats on takedowns/takedown attempts are also misleading. The reason they are misleading are because Lesnar still got the job done, in both fights against high level wrestlers. Wolf, if Lesnar beats Cain, does he earn your respect or is he still horrible and overrated in your opinion?

Post of the thread

Wolfgangsta wrote:

There is absolutely zero reason to assume that a skilled wrestler in this division won't stop a Lesnar takedown LTFG, smaller or not. Still putting too much stock in size, ignoring reality.

Anyway I said if Brock beats Cain I'll give him his credit and take back what I said about him numerous times. If you insist on referencing "all my posts" as hate, ignoring what they are, please reference the other posts I make on Lesnar as well, where I give him props or say I'd give him credit if he wins. Thank you.

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average wrestling compared to the elites in the division, and horrible striking offense and defense.

Jimbo this is what I said. I said he has average wrestling compared to the divisional elite. Modify that to elite wrestlers. Carwin, formerly Couture, and now Cain.

Well, he got more takedowns against Couture and Carwin then Couture and Carwin did against him, so i'd say he is winning the wrestling battle at this point. If he gets more takedowns then Cain, it will be a takedown advantage for him against in your opinion, the top 3 wrestlers in the heavyweight division, thereby making him the top guy, right? Look, I know skillwise, Lesnar is not as good of a wrestler as Cain or Couture (better then Carwin imo though), however, this is heavyweight, where weight really does matter and Lesnar's combination of size and skill has so far, outdone Couture's combination of more skill but less size and Carwin's combination of equal size and less skill (my opinion). The question is whether or not Cain's combination of attributes can outdue Lesnar's. All these factors have to be taken into consideration.

Jimbo you're using the final W-L's to write off the reality of his wrestling by saying things like "they're misleading because brock won" and "he has more takedowns than they do".

Couture was like 1-2 against him if you count that half takedown he popped up from, and Carwin tried none, so that stat is misleading because Lesnar has never had to defend many wrestler takedown attempts.

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Also, you cannot call a NCAA Division 1 National Champion's wrestling overrated.

Why the fuck not? You can't hide behind a ten year pedigree that he had lost touch with for 8 years. There is a perception held to this day by otherwise respectable citizens of the world that Lesnar's takedowns are this unstoppable monster, when the reality is quite different. Lesnar's wrestling is one of MMA's great myths at this point. The numbers bare that out.

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I think this is a great fight and if Cain wins, it will be with his hands and activity imo. These stats on takedowns/takedown attempts are also misleading. Cain was skillwise better then Konrad when they wrestled in the semis of NCAA's, but still lost, because of the size disadvantage.

Cain also beat Konrad once in college, so take it for what it's worth.


There is no reason to believe that Lesnar will be able to get Cain down and keep him down. None. If you believe that you likely carried that belief since the Heath Herring fight or earlier. Jake O'brien used his wrestling to win a decision over that same man.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

that is one of the worst photoshops ive ever seen!

killerofchicken wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

that is one of the worst photoshops ive ever seen!

lol yeah I didn't post the text but it was even worse. It is on the fanshot section of mmamania.com

"Here's my version, illustrating what I think REALLY went down at UFC 116. Basically, there was a backroom agreement between Dana and Carwin. Carwin is allowed to show his skills in the first round (minus a knockout) and agrees to get submitted in the second. This keeps the gold around a more marketable champion AND leads people to believe that Brock is actually improving his game. Dana is completely about the money here and NOTHING else. Open your eyes people."

Whoever posted that drivel needs to put his helmet back on and get put back in his cage. Carwin was 100% trying to finish that fight in the first round, and there was nothing to indicate that Lesnar would have been able to take those kind of shots and remain conscious the whole time. Nobody else had taken anywhere near that kind of punishment from Carwin and lived to tell the tale.