Lesnar is 2-7, 28% on takedown attempts vs wrestlers in the UFC.

and Couture was an Olympian, not to mention the O Brien fight ended rather quickly. In fact not one time did O Brien shoot on Cain. Cain hurt him with the first few punches and when O Brien went to clinch to recover Cain turned him and pushed him down then used a whizzer to stay on top of him.

http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Jake_O_Brien_vs_Cain_Velasquez_UFC_Fight_Night_14?vid=10000889&tid=100

So again, Cain is untested against Wrestlers shooting on him in MMA.

And don't call me sherley.

This is hysterical! Cain stands an excellent chance of winning...he also stands an excellent chance of losing. To deny that is foolhardy. But gee guys give Lesnar his due, this is his week. If Cain wins, we will give him his due.

My job with andrew is done. Pretty sure a few days ago he gave cain no chance.

Anyone who doesnt give Cain a chance doesnt fully understand how good Cain is. However, anyone who can boldly pick a winner of this fight, beyond a shadow of doubt is simply either a fanboy or a hater. Again, this is just like Lesnar vs. Carwin to me (although different in terms of strengths and weaknesses) in that it is a toss up fight.

I'm gonna say that I'm not a Brock hater at all. In fact, I've defended Brock for a long time. But his reign is almost over. Cain is a better wrestler, a better striker, and he's tougher than Brock. I see Cain getting inside, throwing a two piece and a biscuit, and Brock not being able to do anything about it. Brock's standup defense is attrocious. Hell, his offense isn't much better. The fact is, Cain is waaaaaaay better than Brock while the fight's standing, and Brock is gonna have a hell of a time getting on top of Cain and riding him Cole Konrad style to a decision victory.

Chork you just went from -1 to 2. Bravo.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Chork you just went from -1 to 2. Bravo.

lol Chorky....dont you feel honored?

I'm kind of curious Wolf... Will you ever give Brock any credit at all? I mean if he beats Cain and then JDS will you still be pioneering the anti-Brock sentiment and laying down endless "Brock's still overrated" threads for this board?

Yea I noticed his shot is not all that. Couture stuffed him rather easily despite a 60 lb weight disadvantage.

If he won those fights he wouldn't be overrated would he? He was ruined by Carwin who had no cardio. He didn't win with skill. Lets see him get a takedown and an arm triangle on a fresh fighter.

Didn't I post an article I wrote about him earning the respect of a champion? Didn't I praise his heart and chin?

However LTFG, fighting ability has more to it than heart and chin. Lesnar has both of those, and a lot of muscles, and average wrestling compared to the elites in the division, and horrible striking offense and defense.

I'm I not stating facts? Is Lesnar's wresting not universally considered to be this unstoppable force?

Chorky, why is Cain tougher than Brock? What reasoning is there for this statement?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

If he won those fights he wouldn't be overrated would he? He was ruined by Carwin who had no cardio. He didn't win with skill. Lets see him get a takedown and an arm triangle on a fresh fighter.

Didn't I post an article I wrote about him earning the respect of a champion? Didn't I praise his heart and chin?

However LTFG, fighting ability has more to it than heart and chin. Lesnar has both of those, and a lot of muscles, and average wrestling compared to the elites in the division, and horrible striking offense and defense.

I'm I not stating facts? Is Lesnar's wresting not universally considered to be this unstoppable force?

Wait wait wait. What heavyweights have better wrestling then Lesnar? Even if you say Cain and Randy (debatable due to age), who else is better? That hardly makes him an average wrestler in the heavyweight division.

before Marquardt fought Soennen with a minimum of 20 takedown attempts Marquardt was the 3rd most accurate in UFC history

Landing 21 of 29 attempts with a percentage rate of 72 percent
he also was 5th all time in takedown defense only being taken down 4 out of 29 times with a sprawl percent of 86 percent

Sonnen had succeeded on 27 of 45 takedown attempts with a 60 percent success rate

just saying dont put all your stock in numbers

Wolfgangsta wrote:

If he won those fights he wouldn't be overrated would he? He was ruined by Carwin who had no cardio. He didn't win with skill. Lets see him get a takedown and an arm triangle on a fresh fighter.

Didn't I post an article I wrote about him earning the respect of a champion? Didn't I praise his heart and chin?

However LTFG, fighting ability has more to it than heart and chin. Lesnar has both of those, and a lot of muscles, and average wrestling compared to the elites in the division, and horrible striking offense and defense.

I'm I not stating facts? Is Lesnar's wresting not universally considered to be this unstoppable force?

No, I agree with many of your points, but disagree about the wrestling. I don't think it's an unstoppable force, but do think against smaller guys like Cain, he has a distinct advantage (That I think we will see in that fight). I'm just wondering if there will ever come a time when you actually give him some credit. Despite his obvious MMA shortcomings, the guy keeps winning fights. I think if he gets past Cain and JDS, you owe this board a longwinded love for Brock post...

And the clock strikes 12

There is absolutely zero reason to assume that a skilled wrestler in this division won't stop a Lesnar takedown LTFG, smaller or not. Still putting too much stock in size, ignoring reality.

Anyway I said if Brock beats Cain I'll give him his credit and take back what I said about him numerous times. If you insist on referencing "all my posts" as hate, ignoring what they are, please reference the other posts I make on Lesnar as well, where I give him props or say I'd give him credit if he wins. Thank you.

Quote :

average wrestling compared to the elites in the division, and horrible striking offense and defense.

Jimbo this is what I said. I said he has average wrestling compared to the divisional elite. Modify that to elite wrestlers. Carwin, formerly Couture, and now Cain.

WHO NEGGED ME FUCKIN HATERS!!!! IM GONNA STOP POSTIN HERE!!!!

Wolfgangsta wrote:

WHO NEGGED ME FUCKIN HATERS!!!! IM GONNA STOP POSTIN HERE!!!!

your in the wrong account, LA

Now it all makes sense. Excuse me while I divide by zero.

Wolf- I'm a staunch Fedor and Brock fan. You don't have to like 1 style over another. Along with GSP and Jon Jones they are my favorite 4 and they all fight completly different.

You really are The Freakzilla.

Lol. Thanks. I'll take that as a compliment

bobbitt15 wrote:

Chorky, why is Cain tougher than Brock? What reasoning is there for this statement?

Because Brock runs away when he gets hit hard. Cain comes forward. Simple as that. Just my opinion on that one. But it's a fact that Cain's a better wrestler.

How could it be a fact Cain is a better wrestler unless they've actually had a wrestling match and Cain won.