Lesnar is 2-7, 28% on takedown attempts vs wrestlers in the UFC.

1-3 against Couture, and Couture immediately popped up and took him down momentarily. 1-4 againt Carwin and that was only facilitated by the fact Rashad Evans could have got Carwin down at that stage. When they were both fresh the D-2 champion from ten years ago wasn't threatened.

And Cain is the youngest and closest to prime wrestler he will have ever faced. All those who pick the fight based on Lesnar being the bigger wrestler - good luck with that.

Just throwin' that out there.

nice one wolf I hope that is the case as I am rooting for my boy cain

You're really trying to convince everyone that Cain is a better wrestler than Brock aren't you? are you a bookie or something? because we're not buying it. Brock by destruction.

Damn dude, you got a serious hatred hard-on for the guy. Go get laid or something, I can't believe this is the best thing you can do with your time...

Cain would maul Lesnar in a college match, but even if he lost, he still is in very little danger against Lesnar's takedowns in MMA. Lesnar doesn't set his shots up and he has only been effective when he catches non wrestlers off guard in the open field. That powerdriving shot he has is his best takedown weapon. Carwin blocked it, and Cain could block it.

LOL@lesnar fan kids ignoring the stats and making it personal. The dude has the most overrated wrestling in MMA history. My job is to expose your myths. Don't hate me, hate yourself for being stupid enough to be duped into these cartoonish notions.

Yeah, because your predictions are always right. I'm 2nd in GOR so I know more than you

Wolfy is 100% correct on this. I don't see the issue here?

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Wolfy is 100% correct on this. I don't see the issue here?

The issue is since saturday we've heard a million reasons from him on how Cain is going to destroy Brock. He's making it sound like Brock needs a miracle to win. Give the champ his props.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Wolfy is 100% correct on this. I don't see the issue here?

The issue is since saturday we've heard a million reasons from him on how Cain is going to destroy Brock. He's making it sound like Brock needs a miracle to win. Give the champ his props.

That isn't the point I'm talking about. Wolfy's point of Brock's wrestling vs Cain's wrestling is spot on. Brock will have a very, very difficult time getting Cain to the ground. Cain very well could have better wrestling then Brock. Remember Cain has been wrestling larger men for years. He was a smaller HW in college. Saying Cain has better wrestling technique is probably a pretty fair statement.

Cain has yet to fight someone on Brock's level in MMA

End/

Realistically, Carwin only defended takedowns against Lesnar in the first round when Lesnar was visibly hurt and was dropping levels to avoid further punishment. Of course Carwin was going to stop his takedowns when he was hurt. In the second round, not seeing stars, Lesnar took him down quickly (or is the excuse that Carwin was gassed?). Anyway, Wolf is right that Cain has better technical skills in wrestling, but will that be enough? Cain was skillwise better then Konrad when they wrestled in the semis of NCAA's, but still lost, because of the size disadvantage. Also, you cannot call a NCAA Division 1 National Champion's wrestling overrated. I think this is a great fight and if Cain wins, it will be with his hands and activity imo. These stats on takedowns/takedown attempts are also misleading. The reason they are misleading are because Lesnar still got the job done, in both fights against high level wrestlers. Wolf, if Lesnar beats Cain, does he earn your respect or is he still horrible and overrated in your opinion?

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

Cain has yet to fight someone on Brock's level in MMA

End/

I'm not saying Brock won't win. I'm saying Brock won't dominate the wrestling. It just won't happen.

I think SOONERS this is related to Lesnar's build and the shape of his jawline. His broad shoulders and strong comic book action figure jaw are barbie like in their usual real world unattainability, yet are constantly represented in cartoons and similar media as the absolute masculine male stereotype. The stereotype is used in both media for children like superman and small soldiers, and in media designed to mock overt masculinity, like Johnny Bravo and American Dad.

Must be subconcisous. People see his huge shoulders and throw logic out the window, even otherwise smart people who otherwise use data to break fights down. However in this case, I provide numbers, they react with anger. This is the same reason Lesnar was an immediate splash in the WWE. He looked the part of the stereotype and connected on a subconcisous level with young males looking up to the masculine ideal.

Is it any wonder there are almost no people who are staunch Fedor AND Lesnar supporters, considering they are polar opposites in physique, skill and background?

Quote :

Cain was skillwise better then Konrad when they wrestled in the semis of NCAA's, but still lost, because of the size disadvantage.

Completely misleading. Konrad's wrestling style only works in college wrestling, and has proven poor in MMA. Anyway Cain also beat Konrad once too. So take it for what it's worth.

Anyway Jimbo, Lesnar will be 25-30 pounds heavier, but he is ten years removed from his college wrestling days, where as Cain made the transition immediately. Somehow the notion that wrestling skills are like riding a bike has come about. Foolishness entirely.


Depressing the lessions of UFC 1 are forgotten by so many people.

I'm just gonna sit back, watch some people talk talk talk, and laugh in the end.

You've probably got 100-200 posts on how awesome Lesnar is and how he'll destroy Cain in the last week kiddo. Just sayin.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

Cain was skillwise better then Konrad when they wrestled in the semis of NCAA's, but still lost, because of the size disadvantage.

Completely misleading. Konrad's wrestling style only works in college wrestling, and has proven poor in MMA. Anyway Cain also beat Konrad once too. So take it for what it's worth.

Anyway Jimbo, Lesnar will be 25-30 pounds heavier, but he is ten years removed from his college wrestling days, where as Cain made the transition immediately. Somehow the notion that wrestling skills are like riding a bike has come about. Foolishness entirely.


Depressing the lessions of UFC 1 are forgotten by so many people.

Well, I dont know how Konrad's style has proven not to work in mma, he is undefeated and improving each fight. He just needs more time to transition because he had a much slower, more plodding wrestling style then a guy like Cain or Lesnar. Also, its not that wrestling is like riding a bike, but more that Lesnar trains with Konrad who is just as recently removed from wrestling as Cain is, which keeps Lesnar's wrestling sharp. I'll be the first to say that Lesnar's technical prowess in wrestling is nothing to be astonished by. But, that doesnt mean that he still wont be able to put Cain on his back.

Which lessons from UFC 1 are you referrring to?

Size<Skill.

Konrad rode people to victory and almost never got or looked for takedowns, Lesnar working with him doesn't help at all unless he was going to wrestle again. Styles make fights. Wrestling is like boxing and other forms when it has styles that are best suited for mixed fighting. Konrad may have been an epic college wrestler but he struggles to get D-3 journeyman down who give up 30 + pounds. The kind of guys Lesnar or Cain would plow through the cage.

I've been saying that Brock, trains with Konrad all the time.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

I've been saying that Brock, trains with Konrad all the time.

You said that once and so what if he does? Konrad is a shit MMA wrestler and watch any of his fights for proof. He'd get murdered in the UFC or Strikeforce where real HW's are.

Lesnar's wrestling is overrated, not bad. It's overrated because a lot of people think it's the end all to any discussion. He could barely get a much smaller Randy doen and couldn't stike him while doen or even keep him there for longer than a few seconds. Granted Randy knows a thing or two about the craft himself. Still, size is the weapon for Lesnar, wrestling is an asset to utilize his his size but not above and beyond better than everyone else's talent or capabilities in that department. His combo can keep him in it but the dude needs to keep working that stand-up to save himself because he is gonna get crumpled.

So because Royce Gracie used Gracie Jiu Jitsu to beat guys who were bigger than him yet had no knowledge at all of Jiu Jitsu suddenly translates 16 years later into Cain beating Brock in wrestling...How? What UFC1 taught us was that fighters in MMA need to know a little bit of everything and prepare for all situations less than it taught us about skill>size. As is demonstrated by Matt Hughes when he beat Gracie. By then the game had passed Gracie by, like a lot of the Gracie's he didn't bother training a decent stand up game and when Matt Hughes dominates you in striking that's not exactly a flattering fact.

Side note: Brock may be 2 for 7 on takedowns against Randy Couture and Shane Carwin but how is it Cain fighting Cheik Kongo and Jake O Brien is even comparable? Lets not lose focus here. If anyone is untested against wrestlers in MMA it's Cain right now.

Cleaned up

Quote :

So because Royce Gracie used Gracie Jiu Jitsu to beat guys who were bigger than him yet had no knowledge at all of Jiu Jitsu suddenly translates 16 years later into Cain beating Brock in wrestling...How? What UFC1 taught us was that fighters in MMA need to know a little bit of everything and prepare for all situations less than it taught us about skill>size. As is demonstrated by Matt Hughes when he beat Gracie. By then the game had passed Gracie by, like a lot of the Gracie's he didn't bother training a decent stand up game and when Matt Hughes dominates you in striking that's not exactly a flattering fact.

Side note: Brock may be 2 for 7 on takedowns against Randy Couture and Shane Carwin but how is it Cain fighting Cheik Kongo and Jake O Brien is even comparable? Lets not lose focus here. If anyone is untested against wrestlers in MMA it's Cain right now.

How is it possible for you to sound so smart and still miss the point so horribly? Like GDP said, the end to all Lesnar discussions is "well fuck whatever his opponent has hes bigger and stronger".

Ludo surely you didn't miss that point? Surely?

O'brien was a D1 wrestler himself and three time state wrestling champion He was an average wrestler in the Big Ten in college but Cain still had his way with him.