How can Cain beat Brock?

Brock is bigger
Brock is stronger
Brock is quicker
Brock is a better wrestler

What advantage does Cain have?

with a bat!

his only chance is to avoid the takedown and use his superior striking skill to overcome Lesnar via TKO by an accumulation of shots or outpoint him to a decision. Beyond dropping him and finishing him off(something Carwin couldn't do), or surviving the takedown for 5 rounds while outstriking him, Cain doesn't offer a whole lot.

Brock is not quicker, Brock really isn't a better wrestler.
Big advantage for Cain seems to be cardio...can he survive and wear Brock down?

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Brock is bigger
Brock is stronger
Brock is quicker
Brock is a better wrestler

What advantage does Cain have?

Cain is more athetic.

Cain is younger.

Cain has more well rounded skills.

Cain is much faster.

Cain has better cardio.

Cain has a better camp.

Brock on paper is the better wrestler but that is based on a pedigree he earned ten years ago. Contrary to popular forum fag belief, wrestling isn't a skill that stays the same forever without any atrophy. Brock wouldn't be able to win the NCAA tomorrow. Not by a long shot. Cain isn't nearly so far removed from his wrestling days. Cain may indeed be the better wrestler. Cain's wrestling has been absolutely dominant, Brock's hasn't been quite as overwhelming(though this isn't totally fair with bouts against Carwin and Couture factored in). Time will have to bare out who is the better wrestler. One thing is for sure, Cain will not be dominated in wrestling.

Brock may prove to be difficult to stop with the punishment he absorbed against Carwin but who knows how much Brock's chin may have left cageside after such a beatdown. We've seen classically iron chinned fighters go down easy following performances like this. Think Miguel Torres.

Brock has size, reach and strength but everything else goes to Cain, with wrestling being a push. How much size is in Brock's favor? 25-30 pounds. Lesnar fights at around 265-270 and Cain at 240-245. And Brock will likely push cardio and speed in the camp for this fight, vs power and size, since the match up is different. with his new diet and the best game plan favoring speed/cardio, do not expect Lesnar to cut much for this fight.


I expect Cain to sprawl and brawl with Lesnar, wear him down, and finish late or win a decision. Lesnar has great cardio for a man his size but 5 rounds against Cain Valesquez could tire any gym rat.

Cain is not the better athlete, Brock's cardio is fine and Cain is not faster.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Brock is bigger
Brock is stronger
Brock is quicker
Brock is a better wrestler

What advantage does Cain have?

Cain is more athetic.

Cain is younger.

Cain has more well rounded skills.

Cain is much faster.

Cain has better cardio.

Cain has a better camp.

Brock on paper is the better wrestler but that is based on a pedigree he earned ten years ago. Contrary to popular forum fag belief, wrestling isn't a skill that stays the same forever without any atrophy. Brock wouldn't be able to win the NCAA tomorrow. Not by a long shot. Cain isn't nearly so far removed from his wrestling days. Cain may indeed be the better wrestler. Cain's wrestling has been absolutely dominant, Brock's hasn't been quite as overwhelming(though this isn't totally fair with bouts against Carwin and Couture factored in). Time will have to bare out who is the better wrestler. One thing is for sure, Cain will not be dominated in wrestling.

Brock may prove to be difficult to stop with the punishment he absorbed against Carwin but who knows how much Brock's chin may have left cageside after such a beatdown. We've seen classically iron chinned fighters go down easy following performances like this. Think Miguel Torres.

Brock has size, reach and strength but everything else goes to Cain, with wrestling being a push. How much size is in Brock's favor? 25-30 pounds. Lesnar fights at around 265-270 and Cain at 240-245. And Brock will likely push cardio and speed in the camp for this fight, vs power and size, since the match up is different. with his new diet and the best game plan favoring speed/cardio, do not expect Lesnar to cut much for this fight.


I expect Cain to sprawl and brawl with Lesnar, wear him down, and finish late or win a decision. Lesnar has great cardio for a man his size but 5 rounds against Cain Valesquez could tire any gym rat.

good shit, I like it.

Have you ever watched Cain fight? Like even once? See the combo he laid Nog out with? holy fucking shit. Hell go back to his fight with Jeremiah Constant and look at the speed and intensity he was fighting with.

"HE MOVES LIKE A MIDDLEWEIGHT!"

No, he doesn't, he moves like a fast 265 pound HW. Stop believing this nonsense. Because White or Rogan or some other UFC pitchman said he does doesn't make it true. He is fast and a freak, but everything is relative. Fedor, Dos Santos, Cain, Duffee and Overeem are five HW's alone who are faster than Brock by a lot. His speed was a non factor against the plodding Carwin when he was fresh. Cain likely owns a significant speed advantage.

If Cain comes in healthy and legit for the fight and Brock does dominate him with speed or wrestling I'll take back everything I've said about the man.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

See the combo he laid Nog out with? holy fucking shit.

I could be wrong but didn't Frank knock him out too ? Didn't help Frank out much. Brock will own him. I am not saying Brock can not be stopped in any way. I just don't see Cain doing it.

I am talking about the speed. Nog stood like a statue in front of Mir who is slower than everyone mentioned in this thread. Different fight with different circumstances. Cain Valesquez has incredible speed.

I'm not going to use Cain vs. Nog to show he has great speed, because Nog is slow as hell now, but Cain probably has the edge in overall speed and quickness, though I think it's closer than you'd think.

Wrestling is probably a wash, and it's not like Brock doesn't practice wrestling in training so not sure why someone would think he's lost ability. But, and a big but, Brock will probably end up having the wrestling edge due to his size and strength advantages, which hey 30 lbs ain't nothing, and I'll gaurentee Brock is the much stronger man.

Cardio is probably a wash aswell, Brock has shown to be inhuman for his size in that department, he just had a huge guy banging on him and laying on him and came back like it was nothing, Cain however, when has he actually been pushed in a fight? Sure he hasn't tired when dominating lesser competition, but we'll see when a giant like Brock is holding his weight on him against the cage.

Strength and size obvious, Brock

Overall talent and skill obvious, Cain

Submission skills? Brock, I was very impressed with that arm triangle, Cain however has been in very good positions to get chokes and come up with nothing almost like he had no clue what to do, I remember other people commenting about this on here.

Chin got to go Brock, Cain would not have survived that onslaught from Carwin, infact I don't know if anyone else in the World of MMA would have. And did Wolfy just act like that will destroy Brock's chin? He wasn't even knocked out, and it was the first time in his life anything like that happened.

I've thought about the fight, originally I gave Cain a 10% chance at winning, I've upped that to 20%, but I really don't see it happening. We've seen Brock can take punishment, sure Cain can try and avoid the takedown, use his superior striking and go for the decision, it could happen, but I doubt it. I sure as hell don't see him finsihing Brock, and we're saying Cain will go 5 rds without getting clipped by one of those bricks or getting taken down at least once? Because from what I've see, if Brock gets you down you are not getting up, too much weight and size on top of you.

Of course Lesnar practices MMA wrestling, but how long was he away from legitimate high level training before MMA, 8 years? Skills and ability have declined. Since wrestling is his base and what he already knows, how much do you think he really works on it compared to the rest of what he has to learn?

Cain started MMA training immediately out of college. There is no gap. His wrestling pedigree itself is fantastic anyway. He was the 2002 NJCAA HW champion. He was also a better D1 wrestler than his finish at nationals may reveal because he was eliminated by Cole Konrad who eventually won the title. In MMA terms, the Konrad's wrestling isn't even close to Cain's.

Don't sleep on Cain gentlemen.

Here we go

His only option would be to stick and move, tag Brock with a quick combo then get straight out. Is it possible for Cain to do this for five rounds or survive long enough to wear Brock down ?

Problem is sooner or later Brock will take him down and ground Cain into mush.

Brock was 0-3 against a less pedigree'd wrestler in the first round with takedown attempts. Carwin was only taken down after he was shot. Cain isn't going to be worn out against Lesnar. Cain certainly won't be held down by a tired Lesnar.

If Lesnar wins this fight it will have to do with power and reach not wrestling. Lesnar is a great fighter but let's please stop overrating his wrestling.

I thought Brock showed some real chinks in his armor. He was outstruck by Carwin, outwrestled by Carwin, he out cardio'd Carwin, but that is Cain's bread and butter. Randy was able to hang right in there with the much bigger and faster(at that stage of his career) brock in the wrestling dept, so I think cain hang's in there too.

Brock did show real toughness and an ability to take punishment, while Cain has shown that he's more volume then power, so that could play a role.

But I think Cain could hang. He's got a shot.

Cain was a better wrestler in college. He was wrestling against the 2 best heavyweights ever when he was there. That's why he never won the championships. Cole Conrad always beat him on riding time. He couldn't take him down. Cain's wrestling skills are freakishly good, and he's translated them to MMA as well as anybody. He also does a great job of getting inside on people and throwing some sick uppercuts and hooks up close. I see him being able to do that with Brock and beating him up. Cain wins this fight. I'm almost sure of it. Hopefully it'll be in Indy, cuz I'll be there for it.

Chork when I can merci that I will.

Chork put me down for a sig bet as long as you want

The chinks we saw in Brock's armor were that he doesn't like getting hit by a guy who hits harder then anyone else in MMA and didn't know how to react when it happened, since he'd never been there before, who would have thought???

Like I already said in my post, we'll see Cain's cardio tested when he has a 280lb monster hanging on him against the fence.

By the way I think Carwin would beat Cain too

+1 LA. I couldnt have said it better myself. Brock is too big and strong for Cain and it will show in the fight. I also agree 100 percent that carwin would beat Cain also. Cain is awesome yeah but lets not forget he was rocked pretty good by Chiek Kongo who is no Brock Lesnar.

LA I am curious to why you still say 280 when Lesnar said he cuts five pounds. Don't believe he is that small?

Carwin hits very hard, but lets not get shit twisted here. All HW's hit hard. Lots of guys have one punch power. Brock surviving barely in this fight doesn't make me think he inherently will survive a beating in the next fight or the next or whenever the next time he takes big shots is. Lesnar reacts poorly when hit, the fact it was Carwin with his mythic power doesn't totally negate that for me. Dos Santos has never gone to decision in the UFC and only been out of the first round once. I think it's safe to say his punches would have similar pop. Surviving a Carwin beating for a round doesn't mean he can survive a Cain beating for three rounds. Cain has TKO'd everyone he has faced but Kongo, with 5 of his 8 wins coming in the first round. I am not sure it's wise to write off Velasquez's power either.

Tim I want to remind you Lesnar has never looked like even close the striker Kongo is.

Because Brock will pack on more weight as he's still recovering from losing what 50 lbs? I forget, I think he was between 275-280 against Carwin.

Sure they all hit hard, but Carwin.. I mean come on, the guy hits like no one else, add in the largest fists in MMA, Brock can take some punishment if Cain is dealing it out.

And those 5-8 win or whatever, who were they against? best one against a shot Nog who seems to have lost all his freakish pummel absorbing abilities.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Tim I want to remind you Lesnar has never looked like even close the striker Kongo is.

Good point but Kongo is no where near the fighter Brock is and he gave Cain fits. We can do this all day but it really makes zero sense because in every fight fighters arent going to look great.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Tim I want to remind you Lesnar has never looked like even close the striker Kongo is.

True but if Brock clips him with something and rocks him he isn't going to be able to just duck his head and get an easy double leg like he did multiple times in the Kongo fight