When does Shogun become the p4p king again?

So Grim wasn't a quality win? Whatever.

If Fedor beat God, you homers would find a way to discredit it.

In 6 wins

if he was to successfully defend his belt against say, rampage, lil nog, and machida, id rank him up there

May 3, 2012....that's when.

Rua would have to beat Silva,Lil Nog and the Page vs Rampage winner to have a chance at cracking the top three.

If he beat those 3 he's #1 in my book

Also depends on how Fedor,GSP and Silva do in the future.

When Fedor, GSP, Silva, and Aldo would all have to lose. This coming from one of the biggest Shogun fans.

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

When Fedor, GSP, Silva, and Aldo would all have to lose. This coming from one of the biggest Shogun fans.

You have Aldo ahead of Shogun ?

Ali_1748 wrote:

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

When Fedor, GSP, Silva, and Aldo would all have to lose. This coming from one of the biggest Shogun fans.

You have Aldo ahead of Shogun ?

Yes, I do. Destroying Faber and MTB is more impressive than what Shogun has done recently.

I see Wolf's point on this... With the injuries, I have a real hard time being over critical on Shogun for the Gump and Coleman fights. I have him at 4 right now (Had him at 5 before the fight)... In his next couple of fights he will be facing Rampage or Evans and Lil Nog. If he wins those two convincingly while Anderson puts us to sleep while allowing Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance and GSP does the same with Kos and whoever's next... I could definitely see him shooting to #2 on my list in a hurry. I'll give a guy props all day for dismantling and embarrassing others over guys who can't finish those who have no business being in there with them...

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

When Fedor, GSP, Silva, and Aldo would all have to lose. This coming from one of the biggest Shogun fans.

Thank you .

Wolf, you are all over the dude's nuts because of one great win. Maybe Shogun does get to number one in the future, I wouldn't be overly surprised by that. The problem is that there are at least three guys ahead of him that need to lose. It's like a team that is 7 games out of the wild card in baseball...they need a couple other teams to tank...and they have to keep winning...in order for them to make the playoffs. Shogun needs at least 3 guys to tank a fight before he can even sniff number one. If you have Shogun at number 4 or 5 right now I have no problem with that. In fact, I would rank him in that range. However, after this one great win you can't just rocket him back to number one when there are 3 other guys who have been dominating for years without a blemish on their record. The fact of the matter is that Shogun, in all likelihood, won't hold the belt for long and this discussion will be over. The 205 division is to deep, no one is going to make it through the gauntlet without a loss. That being said, I hope Shogun proves me wrong because he's fun to watch and I'd like to see him hold onto the belt.

And why is it that when anyone disagrees with your nuthugging and bandwagoning all of a sudden they weren't around back in the day when Shogun was winning the Grand Prix? Fuck you dude. Shogun was one of my favorites when he was in Pride and yes, absolutely, I was around at that time. I've been posting at ESPN and talking with Sooner about MMA for years before I even met anyone here. So get off your high horse and pull Shogun's dick off your tonsils.

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

Yes, when I consider the length of time they have dominated without a loss...I would need one of them to lose before moving Shogun up. Who says the WW division is weak? Just because a division has a dominant champ doesn't mean it's weak. I think WW is one of the deepest divisions in the UFC...the problem is that no one can beat GSP.

Anderson and Fedor are clearly the two best all around fighters in the world IMO. I just can't understand why anyone would move them from their p4p status when they haven't lost.

Regardless, Shogun has one quality win on his record since coming back from injury and all of a sudden people are putting him ahead of GSP, Anderson, and Fedor??? Give me a break.

Shogun is great, but he doesn't deserve to be ranked number one in the world right now unless you're only talking about the LHW division.

He wont be p4p king as long as Fedor, Anderson, and GSP keep winning.

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

LTFG would you atleast agree that it would take a perfect storm to get Shogun to #1 in the next year? Like you said Shogun will have to keep putting guys away(easier said then done). Spider and GSP will have to continue to put on less them impressive wins. Again not out of the question by any means but both guys staying in the "slump" if you will, well I'll just say I wouldn't bet on it.
And then you have Fedor, him losing isn't likely but the level of competiton could give Shogun the room he needs.

Bigs03 wrote:

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

Yes, when I consider the length of time they have dominated without a loss...I would need one of them to lose before moving Shogun up. Who says the WW division is weak? Just because a division has a dominant champ doesn't mean it's weak. I think WW is one of the deepest divisions in the UFC...the problem is that no one can beat GSP.

Anderson and Fedor are clearly the two best all around fighters in the world IMO. I just can't understand why anyone would move them from their p4p status when they haven't lost.

Regardless, Shogun has one quality win on his record since coming back from injury and all of a sudden people are putting him ahead of GSP, Anderson, and Fedor??? Give me a break.

Shogun is great, but he doesn't deserve to be ranked number one in the world right now unless you're only talking about the LHW division.

I agree about #1 for sure. I'm in the camp that moves guys based on wins and performance. Even for me, he would have to have 3-4 amazing HL reel moments in a row embarrassing top talent while everyone above him on the P4P looks pedestrian. My theory was just that... As stacked as LHW is, I can't see him running through everyone. And on the flip side, I can't see GSP and Anderson taking it easy on and going the distance with guys that have half their talent. But, and there's always a but... If Anderson and GSP are so dominant and so far ahead of their divisions, why on God's blue Earth are they allowing people to hang for 25 minutes?... Pretty damn frustrating...

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

LTFG would you atleast agree that it would take a perfect storm to get Shogun to #1 in the next year? Like you said Shogun will have to keep putting guys away(easier said then done). Spider and GSP will have to continue to put on less them impressive wins. Again not out of the question by any means but both guys staying in the "slump" if you will, well I'll just say I wouldn't bet on it.
And then you have Fedor, him losing isn't likely but the level of competiton could give Shogun the room he needs.

ABSOLUTELY... Just covered that somewhat in my post to Bigs. No way I can see him getting to #1 in a year short of 1-2 guys ahead of him losing and the other guys looking like shit in victory...

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

Ali_1748 wrote:

Ninja\Rua/Fan wrote:

When Fedor, GSP, Silva, and Aldo would all have to lose. This coming from one of the biggest Shogun fans.

You have Aldo ahead of Shogun ?

Yes, I do. Destroying Faber and MTB is more impressive than what Shogun has done recently.

The Faber victory was impressive, I'll give you that, but I never really rated Mike Brown, I knew people were to silly to add him to their pound for pond lists.

I still don't see how Aldo should be ahead of Rua, especially when he's beaten Machida,Liddel,Coleman,Overeem,Randleman,Arona,Lil Nog and Ramopage.

Aldo still has plenty time on his hand to overtake Rua, but I still think he's just behind the top 5 at the moment.

Personally I don't think Aldo deserves to be ahead of Shogun. I think being in the best WC in MMA gives all LHW an advantage.

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

LikesToFightGuy wrote:

So Bigs... You need a fighter to actually lose before moving someone ahead of them? If Shogun goes out and walks through the winner of Evans-Rampage and then Lil Nog while Anderson allows Sonnen and Belfort to go the distance or GSP allows Kos and whoever's next to go the distance, your stance isn't going to change? The LHW division is twice the division as those other two and GSP and Anderson are allowing guys that have no business even being in the cage with them to go the distance?

I have them ahead of him now, but knowing what Shogun was prior to injury and seeing that fighter is back really makes it easy for me to move him back up the ladder if he dominates in his upcoming fights... Especially if GSP and Anderson do nothing special against lesser talents...

Yes, when I consider the length of time they have dominated without a loss...I would need one of them to lose before moving Shogun up. Who says the WW division is weak? Just because a division has a dominant champ doesn't mean it's weak. I think WW is one of the deepest divisions in the UFC...the problem is that no one can beat GSP.

Anderson and Fedor are clearly the two best all around fighters in the world IMO. I just can't understand why anyone would move them from their p4p status when they haven't lost.

Regardless, Shogun has one quality win on his record since coming back from injury and all of a sudden people are putting him ahead of GSP, Anderson, and Fedor??? Give me a break.

Shogun is great, but he doesn't deserve to be ranked number one in the world right now unless you're only talking about the LHW division.

I agree about #1 for sure. I'm in the camp that moves guys based on wins and performance. Even for me, he would have to have 3-4 amazing HL reel moments in a row embarrassing top talent while everyone above him on the P4P looks pedestrian. My theory was just that... As stacked as LHW is, I can't see him running through everyone. And on the flip side, I can't see GSP and Anderson taking it easy on and going the distance with guys that have half their talent. But, and there's always a but... If Anderson and GSP are so dominant and so far ahead of their divisions, why on God's blue Earth are they allowing people to hang for 25 minutes?... Pretty damn frustrating...

You can still have a dominating performance without finishing. GSP dominates everyone he faces from start to finish and does so with ease. Anderson's fighting some of the best 185ers in the world and toys with them. Both WW and MW are divisions ruled by an uber-dominant champ so it makes the weight classes look weaker than they really are. I think MW is one of the weaker weight classes overall, however, by default they are still the best in the world on the whole.

And I still think not finishing a guy shows weakness on part of the so called dominant fighter. He either is incapable, or afraid to fully engage as to not put himself at the slightest risk of his opponents strength. What you see as domination, I see as playing it safe... There's no reward without risk in my world and I have a hard time rewarding guys like Anderson and GSP on my P4P sheet. They are 2 and 3 by default for me since no LHW has stepped up to have a run, BJ lost to GSP head to head and "lost" to Edgar... I'd like to give Aldo more credit but he's defended once and has a resume of relative nobodies prior to MTB and Faber.

BTW - I give Aldo as much a chance to move up if he keeps laying waste to the FW division and its "elite" guys.

ohiovol62 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya but if Fedor keeps beating giant Damian Maia's like Werdum in Strikeforce and GSP keeps not finishing guys he is rubbing his armpits on for five rounds while Shogun is knocking top guys out in the sports premier division...?

Fedor hasn't even fought a giant Damian Maia yet. Why can't he fight just one? Is there any more giant BJJ guys after Werdum? Grim was a top 5 guy and still is. Spider just fought a regular sized Damian Maia. I can see putting Shogun in front of GSP and Spider if they keep not finishing guys but Fedor finishes fights and finishes them quick.

That said, he's prolly gonna hang around the 4 spot on Sherdog's rankings for a while.

LMAO at Grim ever being a top 5 guy. I can't wait till Roid boy fucks him up Saturday so maybe we don't have to hear about him for a while.

Yo bigs eat the right dick too. You get all personal after you jumped into this thread "yo stop suckin his dick" and you expect me not to say some shit back? Then you neg me? I should call you a gaywad, but instead I think I'll just tell you to STFU and grow up.

Anyway surprisingly this thread is full of a bunch of guys who are all like "yo its gonna take years and losses from a bunch of people before he could be even close" and ten - one says all these same people will have him around 2 in a year or less.

205 is the crown jewel of the sport. Shogun schooling another top 205'r impressively is nearly an automatic bid to the 2 spot. Look where Machida wound up after knocking Rashad out?

The one thing that really puzzles me is Jose fucking Aldo over Shogun fucking Rua? Huh? Seriously? Beating the only two real fighters in a division still in it's infancy and literally no one his entire career else isn't the same as beating Lyoto Machida. It isn't the same as winning at 205 and this isn't Shogun's first rodeo. He was a top p4p fighter for years in the past, Jose Aldo has been on the p4p lists for a matter of months. Hell, had Machida-Shogun 2 happened a month ago and Aldo-Faber last weekend, everyone who stuck Aldo at 3 would have Shogun there right now and Aldo at 4...

If in a year and a half Machida drops down and knockout Anderson Silva or moves up and knocks out whatever HW champion is atop the UFC division it would hardly be nuthuggery to ask this same question of him.

Quote :

You can still have a dominating performance without finishing. GSP dominates everyone he faces from start to decision and does so with ease. Anderson's fighting some of the best 185ers in the world and toys with them. Both WW and MW are divisions ruled by an uber-dominant champ so it makes the weight classes look weaker than they really are. I think MW is one of the weaker weight classes overall, however, by default they are still the best in the world on the whole

fixed