When does Shogun become the p4p king again?

Sherdog had him at number 1 coming into the Forrest fight. You probably had him there, or close, too. How many fights would it take for you to rank him there again?

Wow, you are really taking him deep down your throat aren't you Wolf?

Yeah, He'd have to dominate for like 2+ years to even break top 3 because of the holy triumvirate.

LudoCain wrote:

Yeah, He'd have to dominate for like 2+ years to even break top 3 because of the holy triumvirate.

And that's only if one of them falls from grace...Shogun isn't even close right now.

i have him 3 already sorry GSP

Birdofthad wrote:

i have him 3 already sorry GSP

LOL, that is silly.

i dont care, its my rankings

Birdofthad wrote:

i dont care, its my rankings

I suppose, I'd love to hear you justify that, though.

shogun just beat a guy IN HIS DIVISION in the P4P top 5 before last weekend on almost all rankings

GSP has beaten Fitch and Alves, 2 top 10 guys in his division since beating Serra, Hardy borderline (I think he is top 10), and Kos as well. But none of those is as big as the Shogun win was, and I think Shogun won the 1st so I got him at 3 as of right know.

See.

Yo, suck my left dick Bigs, what maybe you weren't around when he was the p4p king at Sherdog and elsewhere? It's not a reasonable question to ask when and if he would be considered that again? If Fedor or Anderson fell off for a couple years but came back to win the undisputed world title, would that question be considered cocksucking as you suggest for them too?


2 years to break into the top three? It could be weeks with a loss in the current top three. Who is even in your trinity Ludo? Fedor, BJ Penn, Anderson, Machida, and GSP I assume? If Shogun schools even one more top UFC LHW fool, people will be ranking him 1 and 2 all over the place. He is already number 4 for me, which means he is someones unimpressive fight or loss away.

Only way Shogun moves into the top 3 is if he beats Anderson Silva.

Because GSP and Fedor wont be losing anytime soon.

Ya but if Fedor keeps beating giant Damian Maia's like Werdum in Strikeforce and GSP keeps not finishing guys he is rubbing his armpits on for five rounds while Shogun is knocking top guys out in the sports premier division...?

wolf thats why i have him 3 already

Shogun was top 1-3 p4p depending on where you look before Griffin. He lost that fight and looked bad. He has improved and won every fight since then. Fedor has never lost so it's hard to bump him. Being the clear best at 205, again, trumps. Best division still.

205 has been and always will be (200 and under in early days) the best division IMO with the deepest talent pool

My top three consist of Anderson Silva, Fedor Emelienanko, and Jose Aldo. I had Machida 5th behind GSP(GSP would have been 3rd for me but he doesn't finish his fights with guys who have no business in there to begin with and thus he loses points based on that). Since beating Machida I bumped Shogun to 5th from 9th in My rankings. When he was 9th he was behind BJ Penn, Jake Shields, and Jon Fitch and it would be incredibly hard to justify having had him any higher than that when those guys are in the mix.

Jose Aldo has taken 145 by storm. Finishing every single fight in the last 2 years(and had it been anyone else in there when he fought Faber the fight would have ended long before decision. Faber being as tough as he is would be why that fight didn't end in the 3rd).

BJ just had his first loss in seven years at 155 in a close fight in which many view the judges decision to be incorrect(just as many had when Machida was announced winner of the first fight). Before that loss he dominated Jens Pulver, Joe Stevenson, Kenny Florian, Sean Sherk, and Diego Sanchez with a power some might deem to be god like. His only losses coming to GSP, and Matt Hughes in that time.

Shields is on an 18 fight win streak across two divisions and just beat the consensus #2 or #3 middleweight in the world in devastating fashion(despite not finishing, if he had any power in his ground and pound he'd have ended that in the second round). Hasn't lost in 5 years while amassing wins over Yushin Okami, Carlos Condit, Jason Miller, Robbie Lawlor, and Dan Henderson. Some of them may be overrated but the streak spans two weight classes and is still impressive.

Jon Fitch has only been beaten one time in the last seven years and that was by GSP while amassing a 12-1 record in the UFC. I don't remember many guys to have ever had 12 wins in the UFC. Enough said.

Beating the #4-#5 guy doesn't instantly catapult you to 1st or even 3rd for that matter. Exposing a guy who's top win in the division was Rashad Evans isn't top 3 Pound for Pound worthy work. However Shogun rests at 5th in My pound for pound rankings at the moment. I'm sorry but beating Coleman and Liddell before fighting Lyoto doesn't impress me nearly as much as the above.

The short answer(s) to the original question however is "when Fedor and Anderson are both retired/when Shogun fights and beats Anderson at 205" Whichever comes first.

Gee, let me think Wolf? If I made him my number 3, then that would knock Fedor to number four and with whatever respect you want to take it as his last opponents: Machida he went 1-1, he beat up a washed up Chuck Liddell, could barely hang with an old Coleman, and got submitted by Forrest Griffin. I think I will wait a while to put him in my top 5, much less than my top 3. I have him a 7, and he deserves to be there based on his last 5 fights.

Who cares if gsp finishes people or not. The aim of the game is to win and gsp does that easily. Aldo is in a weak division and this is shown by manny gamburyan being no 1 contender. Fedor, Anderson and gsp r easily the top 3.

I think Shogun can get there (Top 3, not #1) without Fedor, GSP, or Silva losing, but he's going to need help from a different source - Machida.

Sure, Timmy and Arlovski were high ranked HW's at the time Fedor beat them, but since then, they've kind of sucked. People start to question the legitimacy of them being ranked so high in the first place, thus leading them to question how big of a win it really was for Fedor. If Arlovski and Timmy both continued to be successful after losing to Fedor, there would be no question about who was #1.

If Machida continues to tear everyone other than Shogun up, he's going to get back in (remain?) in the Top 10 P4P himself, thus giving Shogun a win and a half over a guy who was very highly ranked at the time (AND deserved to be so). That should factor heavily into the rankings IMO.

There's just different ways of looking at P4P, that's all it comes down to. In my opinion P4P rankings should be a little like college football rankings and weigh heavily on record, but also include strength of schedule, so that a team going 10-1 against top competition could still be ranked higher than an 11-0 team beating up on C-level competition.

Arlovski and Sylvia suck now because Fedor stole their soul.

Seriously, Fedor could fight at middleweight if he wanted to. The fact that he is beating guys much bigger than him shows he's number 1 p4p.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya but if Fedor keeps beating giant Damian Maia's like Werdum in Strikeforce and GSP keeps not finishing guys he is rubbing his armpits on for five rounds while Shogun is knocking top guys out in the sports premier division...?

Fedor hasn't even fought a giant Damian Maia yet. Why can't he fight just one? Is there any more giant BJJ guys after Werdum? Grim was a top 5 guy and still is. Spider just fought a regular sized Damian Maia. I can see putting Shogun in front of GSP and Spider if they keep not finishing guys but Fedor finishes fights and finishes them quick.

That said, he's prolly gonna hang around the 4 spot on Sherdog's rankings for a while.

ohiovol62 wrote:

Grim was a top 5 guy and still is.

Dude..just no

Beating a #7ish ranked fighter at the time (Arlovski) in a 22 second fight and James Thompson does not make you Top 5, and losing, regardless of how awe inspiring you were for all of 12 seconds against Fedor, doesn't help keep you there. Competent MMA fans saying things like this just baffles me.

thessy11 wrote:

ohiovol62 wrote:

Grim was a top 5 guy and still is.

Dude..just no

Beating a #7ish ranked fighter at the time (Arlovski) in a 22 second fight and James Thompson does not make you Top 5, and losing, regardless of how awe inspiring you were for all of 12 seconds against Fedor, doesn't help keep you there. Competent MMA fans saying things like this just baffles me.

Fuckin A!