JDS needs a contender

Dude Kongo has some of the best striking technique in the entire division. K-1 level kickboxing isn't a monicker. That said, Dos Santos looks to be the stronger of the two in comparison. But that doesn't mean much when you match him up with guys 30-40-50lbs heavier than he is who have a knowledge of keeping even the most resilient jiu jitsu practitioners on the ground and neutralized. Lets not kid ourselves here, the chances of Dos Santos catching someone with the wrath of god while they shoot on him for the takedown when even Gonzaga was able to lock him up briefly are slim and none. He needs to evolve with the division or go the way of Tank Abbott.

However if there's anywhere he can gain the tools to do that, it's where he's at. We will have to see what happens when he gets a step up in competition.

Farmer1906 wrote:

These guys are top strikers in the UFC HW division. Who do you put ahead of them? Not many people.

I'd say Kongo is a better striker then any of em. Heck I'd prob pick Buenetello to beat Cro Cop, and he vs Yvel would be a good fight as well.

what i'd like to know is why everyone is shitting on his grappling abilities. Because he was taken down for a split second by someone who by-the-way is one of the best grapplers to ever compete in mma? I think when his ground game is truly tested some of you will be surprised at how good he is. And Lesnar is still human last time i checked. And it remains to be seen how he deals with getting hit, and getting hit by JDS isn't comparable to being hit by randy couture. If JDS lands clean he can and will knock out anyone in the division. As for how he does against wrestlers, well im sure we wont have to wait too long to find out.

Straight grappling ability for jiu jitsu tournaments doesn't translate to phenominal takedowns. Frank Mir is arguably the most accomplished MMA heavyweight grappler(based solely on his octagon fights and subs) but his takedowns aren't great.

oggy420 wrote:

what i'd like to know is why everyone is shitting on his grappling abilities. Because he was taken down for a split second by someone who by-the-way is one of the best grapplers to ever compete in mma? I think when his ground game is truly tested some of you will be surprised at how good he is. And Lesnar is still human last time i checked. And it remains to be seen how he deals with getting hit, and getting hit by JDS isn't comparable to being hit by randy couture. If JDS lands clean he can and will knock out anyone in the division. As for how he does against wrestlers, well im sure we wont have to wait too long to find out.

Im not shitting on his grappling, but it is wholly unproven, and he's in a division with 2 elite level wrestlers. One of whom would have a good 30 lbs on him, and another very big wrestler with a great chin.

Gonzaga got Carwin down though didn't he? So how does him taking JDS down for literaly a split second prove that prove that JDS would get dominated by anyone with wrestling ability?

oggy420 wrote:

Gonzaga got Carwin down though didn't he? So how does him taking JDS down for literaly a split second prove that prove that JDS would get dominated by anyone with wrestling ability?

Nothing's proven until it happens, but we have seen time and again big time wrestlers gobble up good strikers. And Gonzaga will never be confused with a big time wrestler.

according to Wolf Carwin is a dominant wrestler though, and i was just pointing out that Gonzaga got him down. And Gonzaga get's alot of people down to the ground so let's not act like he has no wrestling abilities. Is it comparable to Brock or Cain? No but it's still alot better than most of the HW division.

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JDS has never faced a dominant wrestler like Brock. Brock has never faced a dominant striker like JDS or even a decent striker. So how can you be so sure of how the fight will go? JDS ia actually a much more proven fighter than Brock at this point. He's beaten the best Jiu Jitsu guys and some very good strikers. Brock has beat Mir, but also lost to Mir, Herring who's basically a can at this point, and Old Man Couture.

Oggy be serious. This isn't your first MMA rodeo. Striker vs wrestler almost always goes the way of the wrester.

Carwin isn't a dominant wrester because he was taken down for a split second and pop'd back up? That nullifies his wrestling pedigree?

Also, Kongo does not have K1 level strikes. Cheick Kongo would get murdered in K1 and badly in my opinion.

Dos Santos has power oggy, but it isn't superhuman like you say it is.

I don't think I can stop the inevitable hype train from rolling out of control, but I implore you men to withhold crowning Dos Santos the best fighter in the division until he actually fights and beats at least a few of the very real, very bad match ups that await him that he mysterously hasn't had to face in five fights.

well by all means Cain should be next for him. That will let us know where he stands for sure.

Gonzaga got Carwin down after rocking him with 3 unanswered shots to the chin that were meant to put his lights out. When Carwins knees wobbled is when Gonzaga went for the takedown, got him against the cage, then pulled his feet out from under him. After about 25 seconds or so Carwin popped up and put Gonzaga out.

Lets not act like his wrestling and takedown abilities are anywhere near the level of Cain and Lesnar. Be serious.

It will be cain which sucks to me. I really believe they are the 2 best fighters in the division and the UFC is putting them on hold for an unproven carwin and a possible rematch with mir and brock. I say get rid of that dumb interim championship title first let Cain or Dos Santos fight Brock.

Well it's kind of hard to do that since neither one deserves to fight Brock right now without fighting the other and beating him. Same with Mir and Carwin. What we have is a 4 way contention for the title. Mir, Carwin, Cain, and Dos Santos. As it stands right this moment none of them deserves a title shot. But someone has to fight for the title, so why not eliminate one and simultaneously vault another into the number one contender slot. Same thing after that with the remaining two.

I would pick Cain over JDS. People are high on JDS right now for good reason but how quickly we forget how dominant Cain has been. His takedowns and wrestling are so powerful. Even if JDS gets back up he will end up on his back shortly thereafter against Cain.

If the UFC wants to continue building JDS they won't give him Cain next. They'd be better served by giving him Kongo or even Mir. I think Mir would beat him too but Mir doesn't have the wrestling that Cain or Brock have.

Bigs03 wrote:

I would pick Cain over JDS. People are high on JDS right now for good reason but how quickly we forget how dominant Cain has been. His takedowns and wrestling are so powerful. Even if JDS gets back up he will end up on his back shortly thereafter against Cain.

If the UFC wants to continue building JDS they won't give him Cain next. They'd be better served by giving him Kongo or even Mir. I think Mir would beat him too but Mir doesn't have the wrestling that Cain or Brock have.

good point on Mir. Without the takedown ability, it may be a better matchup for JDS. Though he would have a pretty big size adv.

+1 bigs

I don't see the UFC putting JDS and Cain up against each other.

The UFC HW division is still not a deep division.

Mir vs Carwin, winner gets Lesnar. Two of those three guys are going to be coming off losses and one will have the title.

If Cain fights JDS and the winner gets a title shot - who is next after that? Nog? Randy? Kongo? There is nobody else.

The UFC learned it's lesson with the Middleweight division Sonnen-Maia-Marquardt circlejerk. When the number of contenders in a division is limited, you can't have them all fighting each other or you risk a situation where nobody really deserves a shot but you're still forced to stick someone in there.

This situation is different than MW's though, where Anderson lords over the division with an iron fist. HW has a lot more parity.

Should Nelson win, he is a good fight for JDS. Todd Duffee is booked for 114 but he is another option. The UFC said they were going to fast track him, what better way than giving him a JDS fight. Either way a title contender is created with that fight.

I think a JDS-Cain fight would go a lot like the Rashad-Thiago fight (without the gassing hopefully). Rashad was able to win easily because of the constant takedowns, but when they stood Thiago won. I'm not sure JDS could keep it on the feet enough to beat Cain. I think Cain would be taking way too much of a risk to just try to outstrike JDS.

Cain is a better wrestler who wouldn't give up as much size to JDS. Cain gets him down and it looks like all other Cain fights.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Cain is a better wrestler who wouldn't give up as much size to JDS. Cain gets him down and it looks like all other Cain fights.

All the other Cain fights don't look the same. You see what Kongo did to him? JDS just might finish him if he catches him.

As for giving up size, Rashad and Thiago are both 205ers.

Kongo did hurt Cain, this is true, but I don't think Cain would make any of the mistakes he made there again. Cain will take JDS down and prison rape him. So would Carwin or Lesnar, end of story. The striker-wrestler match up always has a footnote regarding the possibility of a wrestler not making it that far, but Cain for my money just isn't that wrestler.

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As for giving up size, Rashad and Thiago are both 205ers.

Did you even watch that fight? All 205'rs are the same size eh? You're smarter than this opinion and this statement. I'll chock it up to you being your typical contrarian self, looking to disagree for the sake of.