Bigger freakshow : Uncompetitive old timers fighting for a title shot or two former pro athletes on an undercard?

What is worse ;

Former pro athletes in a match where part of the purse goes to charity on an undercard of an up and coming promotion or being lied to and told that the winner of a fight between two old knockout prone slow dinosaurs is a top five talent worthy of a title shot in the sports biggest and best promotion?

Whether the UFC really plans to give Couture a titleshot or if this is just a ploy is irrelevant. This is how the fight was marketed. Whether or not Coleman and Couture are still competitive with some fighters is also irrelevant. I sincerely hope none of us are stupid enough to believe either would ever stand chance against a Rashad, Shogun or Machida at this stage.

You wanna worry about making MMA look bad, lets start at the top and with the real mistakes MMA promotions make.

Gaurentee Walker vs. Canseco would be on the main card first off

Secondly, you are the only one whose under the assumption Randy truly near a title shot, Everything else says otherwise. Page/ Shad winner will most likely get next shot, then you'd have either Nog or Forrest. And bro, Randy is an all-time legend of the sport, and despite age, is still competitive. After losing to Brock, he has a real close fight with Nog (top 5 HW) then beats Vera and schools Coleman. did Shogun beat Coleman like that? The fight might not have been the greatest main event ever, but when you have two legends of the Org and sport fighting, it's not that ridiculous. The fight was marketed by the way, as a fight between two all-time legends, and nothing more.

I think he meant undercard as in "not the main event" but i agree with LA here. Couture is a top 10 LHW and Coleman is atleast a hall of famer who was coming off a dominant win over somebody the UFC still tricks people into thinking is good in Bonnar. Weak main event, but nothing i would consider close to a freakshow.

I do agree with Wolfy that having these pro athletes test themselves in the cage is fine. I've always seen the cage or ring as a proving ground and if guys like Walker and Canseco want to prove themselves in the cage, i have no problem with them doing so. If peole will tune in, it's good business for Strikeforce to let them do it on their platform because their business model is in fact dependent on ratings. It does not interfer with the guys who figure into rankings and whatnot. If they want to prove themselves, let them. If a significant amount of people want to see it put it on a show everybody can watch it.

Like i've said. As long as they are actually fighting and not putting on some fuckin work i'm fine because if they are in there having an MMA fight, that should be good enough for everybody.

LA are you going to sit here and tell me you've been duped to think Randy is actually a top talent at this stage? You can't be this fucking stupid. Especially you kings, who I expect to be cynical of UFC sideshows like this. LA I have somewhat come to expect to be a retard in situations but you... come on.

Randy has no business even signing to fight top fighters at his age much less fighting for a fucking title.

And LA the UFC has repeatedly said over and over that the winner would be close to or getting a title shot, and they're still saying that is possible for Randy.


Make no mistake, by any fighter in the top ten, Randy would suffer a severe concussion.

Let us look at our top ten LHWs and see if Wolf is right:

Light Heavyweight
1. Lyoto Machida 124
2. Mauricio Rua 115
3. Gegard Mousasi 85
4. Rashad Evans 82
5. Quinton Jackson 71
6. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira 62
7. Anderson Silva 47
8. Thiago Silva 40
9. Forrest Griffin 31
10. Randy Couture 20

Well I can see ways Randy can beat...all of them. I am not saying he would, I am saying he has the ability & know how to do it. Wolf, LA is right too. Shogun didn't look so hot against a gasless Coleman a year ago and now ppl are talking about him like he never had some issues in the ring/cage. Like it or not Randy is a stud, even at 46.

Guess it depends on how you define freakshow. I don't think Randy vs Coleman was a freakshow. Prolly shouldn't have been a main event but the fact that it was a main event doesn't make it a freakshow.

Ya but fighting for a possible title shot?

Very disappointed in the vote.


I am also disappointed people are suckered into "age is just a number" babble and this nonsense that a 47 year old Couture will do anything other than fall asleep on contact with his chin.

Quote :

Gaurentee Walker vs. Canseco would be on the main card first off

Quick vocabulary recap for LA.

Quote :

The undercard, or preliminary matches, consists of preliminary bouts that occur before the headline or "main event" of a particular boxing,[1] professional wrestling,[2] horse racing,[3] auto racing, or other sports event. (In auto racing, however, the term "support race" occurs more commonly.) Typically, promoters intend the undercard to provide fans with an opportunity to see up-and-coming fighters or fighters not so well-known and popular as their counterparts in the main event. The undercard also ensures that if the main event ends quickly fans will still feel that they received sufficient value for the price of their admission.

In boxing, undercard matches usually only last for four rounds, to ensure that the crowd does not have to wait too long for the main event. In professional wrestling, undercard matches usually last for five to ten minutes: the audience does not have to wait too long for the main event and the promoters often have to fulfil contractual television agreements. Professional wrestling unofficially subdivides the undercard into uppercard, midcard and lower card matches,[4] which roughly correlate to the fame and quality of performance of the wrestlers involved.

Randy vs Mark was not a freakshow, it was just a joke of a fight and a payday for Mark. Randy is not freakshow material.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

LA are you going to sit here and tell me you've been duped to think Randy is actually a top talent at this stage? You can't be this fucking stupid. Especially you kings, who I expect to be cynical of UFC sideshows like this. LA I have somewhat come to expect to be a retard in situations but you... come on.

Randy has no business even signing to fight top fighters at his age much less fighting for a fucking title.

And LA the UFC has repeatedly said over and over that the winner would be close to or getting a title shot, and they're still saying that is possible for Randy.


Make no mistake, by any fighter in the top ten, Randy would suffer a severe concussion.

I'd love to see one link that would back up your claims that the UFC was marketing this as a title eliminator or that the winner was close to a title shot. Coleman would never sniff a title shot at 205 even if he had beaten Randy senseless. Randy (understandably) is always a couple wins from a title shot. He just beat your boy Vera before whipping Coleman's ass, if he gets one more good win I wouldn't be surprised at all if he gets a shot. I wouldn't have a big problem with it either because at this stage in his career Randy's earned this treatment.

No one (or at least hopefully no one) thinks Randy is going to beat any top 5 205ers, however, he will always be on the fast track to a title shot. The name of the game in the UFC is not p4p or divisional rankings, it's whoever can sell the fight so long as the UFC can reasonably justify giving them a shot at the belt. This is why Dana and Joe Silva keep the power, they like to make fights that sell ppvs and the fans want to see.

ehhh semantics, randy vs coleman was a 5 yr ago type fight that happened now. No way true mma fan could think it was main event worthy at this point. Not a freak show but a definite slap in the face from UFC.

walker vs canseco sucks IMO. Walker showed me nothing to think that he can be competitive against even some better Competition in SF. Canseco just wants money

Randy will headline any card that he's a part of. He and Coleman were probably just below Evans/Silva in terms of credibility. Besides, neither fights were for a title shot, but were the best of whats around since there were so many injuries of the past few months. Nitpicking at its best.

BIGS

http://forum.nokaut.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32206&start=0

Quote :

"From what I've been told the winner of this fight could be next in line for the title, though that's not something that is guaranteed so I really need to come in at my best and make a case for myself."

Google found me that in 45 seconds.(the first link in my search was this thread tho, 666)

Dana also said it like three times in some interview leading into the fight, Goldy said it a bunch at the last fight night or whatever free card was on Spike, hyping the event, and in the post fight comments at the event too.

Bigs you really haven't seen anything about that?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

BIGS

http://forum.nokaut.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32206&start=0

Quote :

"From what I've been told the winner of this fight could be next in line for the title, though that's not something that is guaranteed so I really need to come in at my best and make a case for myself."

Google found me that in 45 seconds.(the first link in my search was this thread tho, 666)

Dana also said it like three times in some interview leading into the fight, Goldy said it a bunch at the last fight night or whatever free card was on Spike, hyping the event, and in the post fight comments at the event too.

Bigs you really haven't seen anything about that?

OK that's not UFC hype, that's Couture giving a quote. Not the same.

Again, Coleman could've pounded Randy through the canvas and he wouldn't have gotten a title shot IMO. If there were title implications in this bout they only involved Randy.

I still don't recall the UFC marketing this as a title eliminator.

This thread is a freakshow

Dana mentioned it a few times saying the winner could be in title contention. Really just trying to hype the fight as being more important then it was.

http://www.411mania.com/MMA/columns/129583

This column I just found mirrors my feelings about this.

Quote :

Prior to UFC 109, Dana White made the declaration that the winner of the Coleman vs. Couture fight "would be in the LHW title mix". He didn't guarantee a title shot, but most figured if Couture won, he would get one. Well Couture did win, and he should have. He not only won, but he finished Coleman, which he should have. And now the talk is that Couture could get a LHW title shot. First of all, don't count on the Machida bout right away, as Machida still has to rematch with Shogun. Secondly, we still have the whole Rampage vs. Rashad bout to deal with. The winner of that fight should be in the mix for a title shot for sure. Thirdly we have Forrest and LIL NOG. The winner of this bout could also lay claim to a title shot rather easily. Now I will say this, with all of that being considered, Randy Couture is NOT a LHW title contender. Getting a skin of his teeth win against Vera and dominating a sad looking Mark Coleman doesn't exactly scream #1 contender to me. Now if there were no other options, like when he came back to win the HW title, then sure thing. His reputation and the respect people have for him would simply be enough to give him that. That and the fact that Couture battling for a title is PPV buys, it is as simple as that. But right now, he isn't a top contender. But also I have to say that it is not totally out of the question. If he were to face the winner of Forrest and LIL NOG or Jon Jones once he destroys Brandon The Boredom Vera, maybe even Rich Franklin, and win, I could see a more sound argument. It isn't the worst idea from the business side of things, but logistically, he doesn't deserve it right now.

It's hype for a promotion Wolf. I wouldn't read too much into it. And there's no question your above quote is right on the money.

You could always argue that being fed promotional lies about contenders to sell a fight represents "freakshowism" or something equally as harmful to the sport, right sooner?

Take away the loaded term "freakshow" and what is really worse? Some fight between athletes on an undercard or being purposely mislead for promotional/sales purposes? What really looks worse to outsiders?

If the UFC was lying and just saying that to sell PPVs, doesn't that actually make it worse? Wouldn't that put it more in the Kimbo category, where EliteXC lied about how good their star was?

Here is everyone's favorite freskshow

farmer, what are your thoughts on the UFC lying about the significance of a fight and it's fighters in order to better sell PPVs? Read my comments in this thread.

Is Jose Canseco really worse than the flagship promotion distorting their rankings and title picture for the bottom dollar?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

You could always argue that being fed promotional lies about contenders to sell a fight represents "freakshowism" or something equally as harmful to the sport, right sooner?

Take away the loaded term "freakshow" and what is really worse? Some fight between athletes on an undercard or being purposely mislead for promotional/sales purposes? What really looks worse to outsiders?

If the UFC was lying and just saying that to sell PPVs, doesn't that actually make it worse? Wouldn't that put it more in the Kimbo category, where EliteXC lied about how good their star was?

I guess you COULD, but I would not classify that as a "freakshow" or any variation of that phrase. Hurtful to the sport? Ehh yeah slightly, I guess so. Most of the public thinks UFC's/Dana's word is law. Real fans know better.

The people "freakshows" are supposed to offend or whatever are outsiders, sports writers. Sports writers know how to research a sport.

Them looking at a so called title eliminator among two clearly shot fighters when there are other, more deserving fighters such as Little Nog, Jon Jones, Rampage and others does a lot more real harm than a sideshow fight.

freakshow denotes circus competitors, so is a poor choice of words, but in reality, the UFC is doing much more harm than Walker with their title handling. The same is true of Strikeforce with Overeem.

I don't think they're lying per say. Couture is in the title picture with his recent 2-0 streak. But he isn't the #1 contender and probably isn't #2 either. People get title shots for various reasons even though they haven't truly earned the #1 spot. Look at Maia. Hendo, Belfort, and Sonnen were all ahead of him for the title fight, but because of certain circumstances he got it. Same goes with Shogun. We all thought it was a joke that he got a title shot after beating old man Coleman & Liddell when really it should have been Rampage, but he was tied up with TUF and Rashad. I think its best to let it rest and see ow everything plays out.

As for Walker and Jose... I think it is okay to call it a "freakshow", but who really cares. Its going to draw more views, but not nearly as many as you think. The only thing that sucks is if knocks off another fight that I wanted to see from the main card. Why not let the freakshow fight headline a challengers card since that is probably more their level. It gets the eyes on MMA that normally wouldn't be watching and gets the young up and comers some attention too. It'd be a good way to build a star.

Walker vs Jose is the epitome of a freak show.

Randy vs Coleman was the epitome of an awful ppv main event.