Is there any argument now that Jon Jones isn't the numer 1 P4P King?

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

My p4p king is a guy that can dominate his weight class and who has shown in fights that he has crazy skills.

Bones is my #1 guy because of the way he has dominated the toughest weight class against a bunch of champions. GSP lays on people and has greased in atleast one fight that I know of. Silva has fought inferior competition and has been somewhat protected if you compare the guys he has fought compared to Bones.

Agree on the toughest weight class, but let Jones finish it out before we anoint him king. If he beats Rashad and Hendo then I might have to jump on board. I always kept GSP > Andy because GSP has gone through the toughest division. 205 just may be tougher than 170.

Anderson Silva, Jon Jones, Jose Aldo, Frankie Edgar, GSP.

Ninja wrote:

Another problem I have with Bones being number one is his single biggest strength is physical size and reach. Yes, Anderson is one of the biggest 185ers also, but he still is comparable to other guys in his weight class. No one at 205 has as long of reach or cuts more weight than Jones does.

reach should not be considered a negative when judging either Silva or Jones(or anyone) in p4p discussions. They are both long lean fighters and guys like that give away other advantages to shorter stockier fighters. For example long rangy fighters often have trouble with wrestlers. Bones is so dangerous because he is able to combine the length of the striker, with the strong wrestling skills.



Now if Bones or Silva on fight night are consistently significantly heavier then their opponents, then I can see that taken as a negative when discussing p4p, but I need to see concrete evidence that these guys are indeed coming in on fight night much bigger then their opponent.

it's pound-4-pound. Weight based.

captain organic wrote:

Ninja wrote:

Another problem I have with Bones being number one is his single biggest strength is physical size and reach. Yes, Anderson is one of the biggest 185ers also, but he still is comparable to other guys in his weight class. No one at 205 has as long of reach or cuts more weight than Jones does.

reach should not be considered a negative when judging either Silva or Jones(or anyone) in p4p discussions. They are both long lean fighters and guys like that give away other advantages to shorter stockier fighters. For example long rangy fighters often have trouble with wrestlers. Bones is so dangerous because he is able to combine the length of the striker, with the strong wrestling skills.



Now if Bones or Silva on fight night are consistently significantly heavier then their opponents, then I can see that taken as a negative when discussing p4p, but I need to see concrete evidence that these guys are indeed coming in on fight night much bigger then their opponent.

it's pound-4-pound. Weight based.

Actually the term pound for pound refers to the notion that if you took the skillset of a fighter and put him into another weight class, even a higher one, he would still be successful or beat elite level fighters. Take away Jones' 84" reach and replace it with the division average and suddenly the openings he leaves aren't big enough for him to get his balance back and get out of the way.

The difference between Jones and Anderson is that if Anderson has a pretty average length for his division but even if he wasn't quite as rangy as he is he'd still be wrecking people with the fact that he's just so fast and precise with his strikes.

Ludo wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Ninja wrote:

Another problem I have with Bones being number one is his single biggest strength is physical size and reach. Yes, Anderson is one of the biggest 185ers also, but he still is comparable to other guys in his weight class. No one at 205 has as long of reach or cuts more weight than Jones does.

reach should not be considered a negative when judging either Silva or Jones(or anyone) in p4p discussions. They are both long lean fighters and guys like that give away other advantages to shorter stockier fighters. For example long rangy fighters often have trouble with wrestlers. Bones is so dangerous because he is able to combine the length of the striker, with the strong wrestling skills.



Now if Bones or Silva on fight night are consistently significantly heavier then their opponents, then I can see that taken as a negative when discussing p4p, but I need to see concrete evidence that these guys are indeed coming in on fight night much bigger then their opponent.

it's pound-4-pound. Weight based.

Actually the term pound for pound refers to the notion that if you took the skillset of a fighter and put him into another weight class, even a higher one, he would still be successful or beat elite level fighters. Take away Jones' 84" reach and replace it with the division average and suddenly the openings he leaves aren't big enough for him to get his balance back and get out of the way.

The difference between Jones and Anderson is that if Anderson has a pretty average length for his division but even if he wasn't quite as rangy as he is he'd still be wrecking people with the fact that he's just so fast and precise with his strikes.

Exactly, only skill set. It says nothing about changing his reach. Did Anderson Silva beat Okami, Vitor and Sonnen because of his reach advantage? no, it's because he's better skilled. Jones is better skilled than all his opponents also.

Ludo wrote:

captain organic wrote:

Ninja wrote:

Another problem I have with Bones being number one is his single biggest strength is physical size and reach. Yes, Anderson is one of the biggest 185ers also, but he still is comparable to other guys in his weight class. No one at 205 has as long of reach or cuts more weight than Jones does.

reach should not be considered a negative when judging either Silva or Jones(or anyone) in p4p discussions. They are both long lean fighters and guys like that give away other advantages to shorter stockier fighters. For example long rangy fighters often have trouble with wrestlers. Bones is so dangerous because he is able to combine the length of the striker, with the strong wrestling skills.



Now if Bones or Silva on fight night are consistently significantly heavier then their opponents, then I can see that taken as a negative when discussing p4p, but I need to see concrete evidence that these guys are indeed coming in on fight night much bigger then their opponent.

it's pound-4-pound. Weight based.

Actually the term pound for pound refers to the notion that if you took the skillset of a fighter and put him into another weight class, even a higher one, he would still be successful or beat elite level fighters. Take away Jones' 84" reach and replace it with the division average and suddenly the openings he leaves aren't big enough for him to get his balance back and get out of the way.

The difference between Jones and Anderson is that if Anderson has a pretty average length for his division but even if he wasn't quite as rangy as he is he'd still be wrecking people with the fact that he's just so fast and precise with his strikes.

I don't believe this to be true at all. p4p does not require u take away a fighters physical attributes. All it does is ask the observer to consider how the opponents would fare against each other if they were the same weight. Thus the term pound 4 pound. The name says it all.

I mean if we take away guys reach adv, why not take away another guys power, or someone elses speed, or a guys chin.

p4p is by no means meant to be a skills only criteria.