RING'S REPORT CARD

This is going to be fun, Ring.com is rating twenty fighters on the following criteria

Talent

Achievement

Marketability

Support System

Growth Potential

They are starting with heavies and working their way down. It'll be interesting to see who they choose and then how they rate them

They begin with Wladimir Klitschko http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2359/the_ring_allstar_rerport_cards_wladimir_klitschko/

They rate him the following

Talent-A-
Achievement-A-
Marketability-A+ in Europe and C- in the USA
Support System-A
Growth Potential-B

What do you think of those ratings and why? I'll post mine below.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

This is going to be fun, Ring.com is rating twenty fighters on the following criteria

Talent

Achievement

Marketability

Support System

Growth Potential

They are starting with heavies and working their way down. It'll be interesting to see who they choose and then how they rate them

They begin with Wladimir Klitschko http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2359/the_ring_allstar_rerport_cards_wladimir_klitschko/

They rate him the followingi

Talent-A-
Achievement-A-
Marketability-A+ in Europe and C- in the USA
Support System-A
Growth Potential-B

What do you think of those ratings and why? I'll post mine below.

Talent has to be compared to the current crop of heavies and his uncontrollable opposition.

The only thing he's short of achieving is beating his brother.

Marketabilty is tough in the states. But I like his attitude. If you don't like me fuck off i'll go get money somewhere else.

Support system. In my opinion is excellent. He's willing to everyone. He makes tons of cash and pays his victims handsome sums of money. Steward is most dedicated to him than his other fighters. He plays the father figure type roll as well as trainer and has made him the dominant force in the division.

Father time stops everyones growth. If he was five years younger doing the things he's doing now he'd be atg potential based on fighting record.

In my view these ratings must be measured against something other than all fighters or ALL of these guys are going to get A's across the board. So I'm going to rate them against THE MAN champions. C represents an average grade (in my view only) for a THE MAN champion across boxing history.

Talent-Wlad has an awful lot going for him. He is immense, long, is extremely powerful and he has exceptional discipline in terms of both training and sticking with what works. But a man with that kind of chin is simply NOT an A- talent level as Ring argues. I think the competition level masks a major failing. It's likely the weakest chin on a heavyweight champion since Floyd Patterson. I'd give him a B-.

Achievement-This is a category that to some degree is beyond a fighter's control. As Nino Benvenuti says in my signature "It is better to win where there is a lot of competition than when there isn't." Wlad is doing everything we can ask, but he has D level material to work with and that must be taken into account. By heavyweight champion standards he is no better than average C.


Marketability-The notion that this category should somehow be divided is just silly. Does anyone think past American heavyweight champions couldn't have drawn in Europe? In terms of marketability he's got to be the weakest heavy champion (excepting Shannon Briggs or Hasim Rahman) since, I dunno, Braddock? The grade by heavyweight champion standards has got to be a D.

Support System-I really have no good way of judging this except to say that Wlad's massive improvement, willingness to take on all comers and showing up in shape and ready to go means someone's doing something right. A.

Growth Potential-This is a strange category that in a perfect world runs inversely to Achievement. But in this world other than continuing to beat second rate challengers with a seemingly impregnable strategy, what more can Wlad do and how can he really grow? Thirteen is the fight folks want to see. But if Wlad buries him in three, does it really change how we think about Wlad? Call it a D. Mostly not his doing.

i guess the hard thing about grading is that im not sure what im basing it off of. i mean, do i grade his talent in general compared to every fighter that has ever lived? i will do the best i can.

talent: B-, ill go with marb here. his chin brings his talent level down and even not thinking about his chin, he isnt an A talented fighter. he definitely has talent but not the talent that you look at and say "we are watching an ATG."

achievement: D, in reality, he hasnt achieved much. his main achievement is reigning as the champ for so long but even at that, his brother is better in my opinion so if they fought, i dont think that wlad would even be the champion in the division anymore. so really, he is a strap holder because he wont fight his brother. he hasnt beaten anybody of any worthiness other than byrd.

marketability: C, i think that being marketable in europe will get him a C. he can sell out any stadium if he fights there but the problem is that the US is a big country with a lot of fans and he cant even get his fights on HBO or showtime anymore.

support system: i have no idea. im not even sure what im grading. how much support they have?

growth potential: D, he is getting old. he has grown about as much as he is going to. also, you grow as you fight good competition and i dont see that happening. if he just keeps fighting bums and destroying them, he just wont get much better.

Talent B
tall, good feet, tremendous punch, willing to learn

Achievement C+
Ruling the division

Marketability B-
Wlad's been in movies, music videos, TMZ, and dates a Hollywood actress. Has drawn in the US before fighting in Vegas and NY, except he stunk out the joint with his style.
If his people really wanted to push him out here, they could easily do it.

Support System A
Klistschko has a solid team behind in

Growth Potential D
He's a the top, only serious challenge is Vitali

powerpuncher wrote:

i guess the hard thing about grading is that im not sure what im basing it off of. i mean, do i grade his talent in general compared to every fighter that has ever lived? i will do the best i can.

talent: B-, ill go with marb here. his chin brings his talent level down and even not thinking about his chin, he isnt an A talented fighter. he definitely has talent but not the talent that you look at and say "we are watching an ATG."

achievement: D, in reality, he hasnt achieved much. his main achievement is reigning as the champ for so long but even at that, his brother is better in my opinion so if they fought, i dont think that wlad would even be the champion in the division anymore. so really, he is a strap holder because he wont fight his brother. he hasnt beaten anybody of any worthiness other than byrd.

marketability: C, i think that being marketable in europe will get him a C. he can sell out any stadium if he fights there but the problem is that the US is a big country with a lot of fans and he cant even get his fights on HBO or showtime anymore.

support system: i have no idea. im not even sure what im grading. how much support they have?

growth potential: D, he is getting old. he has grown about as much as he is going to. also, you grow as you fight good competition and i dont see that happening. if he just keeps fighting bums and destroying them, he just wont get much better.

Pretty hard to argue with that point of view.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

This is going to be fun, Ring.com is rating twenty fighters on the following criteria

Talent

Achievement

Marketability

Support System

Growth Potential

They are starting with heavies and working their way down. It'll be interesting to see who they choose and then how they rate them

They begin with Wladimir Klitschko http://www.ringtv.com/blog/2359/the_ring_allstar_rerport_cards_wladimir_klitschko/

They rate him the followingi

Talent-A-
Achievement-A-
Marketability-A+ in Europe and C- in the USA
Support System-A
Growth Potential-B

What do you think of those ratings and why? I'll post mine below.

Talent has to be compared to the current crop of heavies and his uncontrollable opposition.

The only thing he's short of achieving is beating his brother.

Marketabilty is tough in the states. But I like his attitude. If you don't like me fuck off i'll go get money somewhere else.

Support system. In my opinion is excellent. He's willing to everyone. He makes tons of cash and pays his victims handsome sums of money. Steward is most dedicated to him than his other fighters. He plays the father figure type roll as well as trainer and has made him the dominant force in the division.

Father time stops everyones growth. If he was five years younger doing the things he's doing now he'd be atg potential based on fighting record.

Yup. Gotta like the attitude.

I don't know enough about the sport to give remotely accurate talent and achievement ratings. I do think that his growth potential and marketability is higher than what everyone has rated. He would need to fight less cautious and the right set of circumstances to occur, but he could become big in America. He is a big, powerful heavyweight that knocks out his opponent after dismantling them. If he can get the KO in 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11, people would already love him. I see several fighters that the public would like to see him get a hold of. Valuev would be a freak show fight but I believe he would knock him out. Haye is a loudmouth, skilled model/fighter. That fight with a preview show would do big numbers IMO. The 24/7 like show would feature Haye being Haye and then have Wlad's KO of Valuev and Hayden appearances. I also think Vitali is getting older and someone may get to him sooner rather than later. If Wlad then takes out that guy, he is undisputed and a star here. This plan only needs about 3-5 fights and Wlad fights 3 times a year. He should have 4 or 5 near top level years left.

I'm comparing him to his peers:

Talent-A-. I don't see anyone in the division right now who can touch Wlad 3.0.
Achievement-A-. I think he's surpassed his brother's achievements and done everything that can be asked of him.
Marketability-C+. He makes $, but people everywhere don't care about him. He doesn't generate worldwide interest in the sport.
Support System-B+. His team is solid, but he isn't the name he could be and can't make the fights he needs to grow (through no fault of his own).
Growth Potential-C. Wlad doesn't have anyone to push him in the ring and doesn't act like enough of a character to make himself into an attraction outside of it.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

I do think that his growth potential and marketability is higher than what everyone has rated. He would need to fight less cautious and the right set of circumstances to occur, but he could become big in America. He is a big, powerful heavyweight that knocks out his opponent after dismantling them. If he can get the KO in 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11, people would already love him. I see several fighters that the public would like to see him get a hold of. Valuev would be a freak show fight but I believe he would knock him out. Haye is a loudmouth, skilled model/fighter. That fight with a preview show would do big numbers IMO. The 24/7 like show would feature Haye being Haye and then have Wlad's KO of Valuev and Hayden appearances. I also think Vitali is getting older and someone may get to him sooner rather than later. If Wlad then takes out that guy, he is undisputed and a star here. This plan only needs about 3-5 fights and Wlad fights 3 times a year. He should have 4 or 5 near top level years left.

This plan makes sense. I might be underselling him. However, your idea seems too unrealistic to me. I doubt Wlad changes his style given his chin in the past and absolute dominance recently. Valuev and Haye want no part of him. And if he does get them in the ring and beats them, he would have to do so spectacularly. Just a win would be too expected. Lastly, I think Vitali retires before he gets beaten.

This is from the current issue right ?

Ali_1748 wrote:

This is from the current issue right ?

It's on Ring.com right now, today.

Gumby wrote:

UBeeg9cats wrote:

I do think that his growth potential and marketability is higher than what everyone has rated. He would need to fight less cautious and the right set of circumstances to occur, but he could become big in America. He is a big, powerful heavyweight that knocks out his opponent after dismantling them. If he can get the KO in 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11, people would already love him. I see several fighters that the public would like to see him get a hold of. Valuev would be a freak show fight but I believe he would knock him out. Haye is a loudmouth, skilled model/fighter. That fight with a preview show would do big numbers IMO. The 24/7 like show would feature Haye being Haye and then have Wlad's KO of Valuev and Hayden appearances. I also think Vitali is getting older and someone may get to him sooner rather than later. If Wlad then takes out that guy, he is undisputed and a star here. This plan only needs about 3-5 fights and Wlad fights 3 times a year. He should have 4 or 5 near top level years left.

This plan makes sense. I might be underselling him. However, your idea seems too unrealistic to me. I doubt Wlad changes his style given his chin in the past and absolute dominance recently. Valuev and Haye want no part of him. And if he does get them in the ring and beats them, he would have to do so spectacularly. Just a win would be too expected. Lastly, I think Vitali retires before he gets beaten.

I don't think he needs to change his style too much just start throwing a couple rounds earlier. I doubt he will do that. However, I think that Valuev is ready to cash out. He has lost is trinket and is old. One of the Bros will get him and KO him in spectacular fashion next year. Haye is the question mark. He is in such a great position as the other belt holder. Most of the HW's are scared of the Bros and will look for an easier trinket. I fear Haye is going to stay away for as long as possible. You might as well think of him as an adopted brother of the Klitschkos cause those fights ain't happenin.

UBeeg9cats wrote:

Gumby wrote:

UBeeg9cats wrote:

I do think that his growth potential and marketability is higher than what everyone has rated. He would need to fight less cautious and the right set of circumstances to occur, but he could become big in America. He is a big, powerful heavyweight that knocks out his opponent after dismantling them. If he can get the KO in 6 or 7 instead of 10 or 11, people would already love him. I see several fighters that the public would like to see him get a hold of. Valuev would be a freak show fight but I believe he would knock him out. Haye is a loudmouth, skilled model/fighter. That fight with a preview show would do big numbers IMO. The 24/7 like show would feature Haye being Haye and then have Wlad's KO of Valuev and Hayden appearances. I also think Vitali is getting older and someone may get to him sooner rather than later. If Wlad then takes out that guy, he is undisputed and a star here. This plan only needs about 3-5 fights and Wlad fights 3 times a year. He should have 4 or 5 near top level years left.

This plan makes sense. I might be underselling him. However, your idea seems too unrealistic to me. I doubt Wlad changes his style given his chin in the past and absolute dominance recently. Valuev and Haye want no part of him. And if he does get them in the ring and beats them, he would have to do so spectacularly. Just a win would be too expected. Lastly, I think Vitali retires before he gets beaten.

I don't think he needs to change his style too much just start throwing a couple rounds earlier. I doubt he will do that. However, I think that Valuev is ready to cash out. He has lost is trinket and is old. One of the Bros will get him and KO him in spectacular fashion next year. Haye is the question mark. He is in such a great position as the other belt holder. Most of the HW's are scared of the Bros and will look for an easier trinket. I fear Haye is going to stay away for as long as possible. You might as well think of him as an adopted brother of the Klitschkos cause those fights ain't happenin.

Nicely put.