Would Frankie Edgar have beaten the real BJ Penn?

An in shape and motivated one, the one that beat down Florian, Sanchez, Pulver and Stevenson?

Or did Frankie actually beat the real BJ Penn, a front running rich kid who can't seem to keep his head on right or keep himself in shape.

I think we might need to begin questioning the level of comp Penn has been fighting. Flo Sanchez Pulver and Joe Daddy? Maybe not as good as we thought going in.

Ouch, but you have a point there. Joe Stevenson hanging by a thread onto relevancy, Florian disposed of again, Pulver being murdered on the local circut, and Diego dominated by a (then) nobody.


It appears that The Last Emperor isn't alone.

I just think Frankie is that good. After watching the fight again Frankie looked like the strongest and fastest LW BJ has ever fought.

Hard to say because that was the slowest and most ineffective BJ Penn that has ever stepped into a cage.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Hard to say because that was the slowest and most ineffective BJ Penn that has ever stepped into a cage.

Even a greyhound looks slow when racing a cheetah. BJ was a bit slow, but Frankie has rediculous hand speed now.

BJ looked like garbage man. A greyhound he was not. He had no cardio. That's why he doesn't go to the ground. BJ's body, unlike Couture and Edgar, probably retains lactic acid at a normal, perhaps even greater than normal level. Taking the fight to the ground and failing to win zaps his muscles and heart. Edgar I'd imagine is like Couture in that his body is naturally made to remove lactic acid.

I am going to say yes, BJ seems baffled by Frankie's speed and movement.

LOL Bj is in his prime didn't you hear him? After he gets past frankie he's gonna take over the world......

keep making excuses for the guy, theres always a couple to throw around anytime this guy loses a fight so why would this be any different?

that WAS the real BJ Penn.

Penn looked normal to me. His conditioning to take the fight to the ground may not have been up to par, but Penn was throwing with his usual hand speed.

Frankie just made him look that much slower with his hand speed, head movement, and footwork. Frankie became one of my favorite fighters in this fight. I like the work he puts in and I like his boxing techniques that you rarely see in the octagon.

wolf is cracking me up here lol.

Yeah, this thread is a FAIL.

so let me get this strait.... BJ was the best he's ever been in his career against Kenny and Diegio, but just a couple months later when Frankie beats him he iw washed up and not the same. And im sure the "real" bj would have just gone in there and owned Frankie right? LOL some of you are too much sometimes (wolf).

I'm constantly dismayed by the novice crap I hear from some of you guys. You guys are not new to the sport and there is no excuse for this garbage. Anderson Silva was tagged by a wrestler when a year ago he was matrixing Forrest. Chuck Liddell was top three P4P and a year later was a KO prone has been. LT was still one of the best backs in the league and over night he was washed up and out of San Diego. Priest Holmes was winning the rushing title and was out of the league shortly there after. Oscar De La Hoya was getting flat out robbed against Pretty Boy Floyd and was completely shot a fight later.

This concept is nothing new in sports, especially brutal ones like boxing and MMA where reflex speed of a fraction of an inch mean all the difference.

This article deals more with the skin's ability to heal, but the study logically carries over into this debate. This is scientific proof that people can become Old Overnight One of the most telling things in the article is how stress can cause this to happen. Trauma of various kinds can cause this to happen. Maybe he pushed himself too hard for a while after the GSP loss and he left too much in prior training camps.

This aint your first rodeo guys, I expect more from you(or at least should expect more out of you two) BJ Penn was horrible last night. I knew as soon as I watched him enter the cage something was wrong. He was flat and expressionless, not that heat seeking missile of death that licked the blood off the corpses of his victims.

It's a difficult line to walk when discussing a changing of the guard between the challenger's skill and the champion's decline(speaking broadly on the era, I know Edgar was the "champ" before hand) Especially with fanboys who don't want to hear anything other than praise for the victor and won't accept that something was amiss with the loser. I'm not taking anything away from Edgar, because he dominated BJ and anyone who does that deserves credit, but who slams BJ Penn three times in a round like that? So you can stop getting pissy, no one is discounting your new hero's win, but this is reality were talking about. Not video game universe where every champion is better than the guy he beat before, and losses don't happen due to age, lack of heart/training or injuries.


What is really more likely?

Edgar's wrestling in a single training camp is all of a sudden the best in LW history and enabled him to do things he couldn't a fight ago and that larger and more accomplished wrestlers besides only GSP never could? Or is it more likely that BJ Penn just isn't the same fighter he was a year ago?

Which is really more likely guys? It won't set the Edgar bandwagon on fire to acknowledge the truth. His win won't vanish and disappear if we question Penn's place in the sport right now.

Guys don't turn into takedown machines overnight, but they do get old overnight. Especially the guys who started fighting early. As a general rule, explosiveness and athleticism for MMA fighters who started fighting at a young age is depleted by their mid 30s, where as guys who started later tend to compete into their 40s at a higher level. The same is true in the NBA.

In short - I'm not attacking the Edgar bandwagon, I'm simply being objective.

Also, a big LAWLFAIL right back at both of you for not reading the second half of my original post where I criticized Penn and left the option open for Edgar beating a version of the "real" Penn anyway. I know the excitement of believing you have an area you can finally challenge wolf in must be too much for you oggy, but please try and keep a level head. You'll do much better if you wait for me to actually fuck up instead of flying off the handle assbabbling a bunch of stupid shit.

LOL

No response? Why do you fruitcakes see the world through a black and white telescope, where anything short of flat out cock-fluffing of the winner's performance is considered "hating" or making excuses? Wolf don't roll like that. I don't think Edgar's best night and Penn's worst night are mutually exclusive concepts. You should be embarrassed with yourself if you do.

BJ looking as horrible as we've ever seen him + Edgar's best performance of his career = 50-45.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

No response? Why do you fruitcakes see the world through a black and white telescope, where anything short of flat out cock-fluffing of the winner's performance is considered "hating" or making excuses? Wolf don't roll like that. I don't think Edgar's best night and Penn's worst night are mutually exclusive concepts. You should be embarrassed with yourself if you do.

BJ looking as horrible as we've ever seen him + Edgar's best performance of his career = 50-45.

I just think you are an idiot that is blinded by nut huggery in all honesty. Why should I try to defend myself when the proof is in the pudding that BJ just cant beat Frankie Edgar?

How is it nuthuggery to say a guy who put in the worst performance of his career and is flat out mulling retirement publicly is washed up? What seems like the nut huggery here is pretending that was the same ol BJ Penn and Edgar is just better when that just isn't the whole story here. I don't buy it. The real world is more complicated than that. I'm no BJ Penn fan. I called him a fucking front runner in my original post. This is some of the worst posting you've ever done.

You've just got Edgar's dick so far up your ass you're refusing to admit BJ Penn looked like a shell of himself. Why? Would it really devalue the win that badly to you to admit that?

Further it is pretty childish and stupid to think anyone who thinks BJ Penn looked faded and spent has some secret pro BJ or anti-Edgar motive.

Considering i scored Crappy B.J version 1 beating Edgar in Abu Dhabi then i say NO!

Edgar outclassed Penn last night, but that does not change the fact that a somewhat less crappy but not very good Penn got robbed against Edgar a few months prior. So an in shape, motivated, out for blood Penn that showed up against Sherk, KFlo and Sanchez would beat Edgar. You can tell the difference in Penn between now and then physically and you can tell his mentality has changed a lot.

Thanks Kings.

No Wolf. How would BJ go from being the most "dominant" LW according to you less than a year ago...to now being washed up?

That DOESNT HAPPEN WITHIN A YEAR.

You should be the one to talk about some of the worst posting someone has had in a while. This topic absolutely has me appauled by you.

The Iceman Chuck Liddell or Wanderlei Silva ring a bell? How about Priest Holmes?

I explained old-overnight already. If you're not going to read my posts don't respond to them.

Anyway, washed up is a relative concept. When you're facing an already lighting fast guy with fast hands and great footwork, the loss of even a small amount of explosiveness and athleticism can be the difference between a dominant win and a bad loss.

This is a game of inches my friend.

Penn just does not have the drive to stay consistant with the hardcore conditioning program he was doing in the short span between getting ready for Florian and his fight with Diego. It's clear he only spent about a half year doing that training before he decided he can get by on simply talent again. Just look at him physically in those two fights near the end of 2009..he was leaner, quicker, more explosive.

Edgar is significantly quicker than him but it's not simply BJ looking slow next to a quicker guy, BJ is just slower because he's not training as hard as he was at the end of 2009.

BJ still has the game but he has simply relapsed into half assed training camps and approaching fights with arrogance. They said in the countdown that BJ was not working nearly as hard as he was for his two title defenses in 2009 and he had gone back to old BJ. I thought that was Dana talking shit but turns out he was right and it shows in BJ's body, demanor, step and overall approach.

If BJ gets back to working his conditioning program that made Florian and Sanchez look like club fighters, he'll probably beat the shit out of any LW in the same fashion but the fact is, this is the 3rd or 4th time in his career BJ has gone from highly motivated and dominant to half assed and nothing special...

it's safe to say this is the real BJ Penn. Consistantly inconsistant.

Quote :

it's safe to say this is the real BJ Penn. Consistantly inconsistant.

Ya, I'd agree. But what is disturbing here is the loss didn't motivate him. Every time he lost before he came back even stronger and hurt someone. This time he got worse. I don't think it's all mental anymore.