If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

I would take away free will.

as if there is such a thing.

captain organic wrote:

I see no evil in a compelling argument that leads to a positive outcome.

You are mixing up persuasion and compulsion. I am fine with persuasion. Compulsion is "do it my way or you're dead, or jailed, or fined etc."

But even in your post is a hint of the arrogance I'm talking about. You imply YOU get to decide what is a positive outcome for ME.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

captain organic wrote:

I see no evil in a compelling argument that leads to a positive outcome.

You are mixing up persuasion and compulsion. I am fine with persuasion. Compulsion is "do it my way or you're dead, or jailed, or fined etc."

But even in your post is a hint of the arrogance I'm talking about. You imply YOU get to decide what is a positive outcome for ME.

dude where do you get your definitions from?

As far as the arrogance argument goes, that works both ways here. Your pushing an ideal as well.

captain organic wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

captain organic wrote:

I see no evil in a compelling argument that leads to a positive outcome.

You are mixing up persuasion and compulsion. I am fine with persuasion. Compulsion is "do it my way or you're dead, or jailed, or fined etc."

But even in your post is a hint of the arrogance I'm talking about. You imply YOU get to decide what is a positive outcome for ME.

dude where do you get your definitions from?

As far as the arrogance argument goes, that works both ways here. Your pushing an ideal as well.

How's Merriam Webster work for you?

PERSUADE
1: to move by argument, entreaty, or expostulation to a belief, position, or course of action

compel
: to cause to do or occur by overwhelming pressure <public opinion compelled her to sign the bill

The difference is MY ideal lets YOU make your own choices. NOT arrogant at all. Respectful of you.

YOUR ideal makes me subject to your whims because YOU think I'll be better off. Arrogant.

ARROGANCE
: an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions

slightly different definition then the one u put forth in the earlier post.

and what are my ideals? nice assumption.

u might want to read the title of this thread again.

captain organic wrote:

slightly different definition then the one u put forth in the earlier post.

and what are my ideals? nice assumption.

u might want to read the title of this thread again.

Huh?

marbleheadmaui wrote:

captain organic wrote:

slightly different definition then the one u put forth in the earlier post.

and what are my ideals? nice assumption.

u might want to read the title of this thread again.

Huh?

I was arguing within the context of the thread, ie how would u change the world(which u obviously have some opinions on) u switched it up to "fuck the liberals".

Is it cool if I say fuck the liberals and fuck the conservatives?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Is it cool if I say fuck the liberals and fuck the conservatives?

not in this thread

farts

captain organic wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

captain organic wrote:

slightly different definition then the one u put forth in the earlier post.

and what are my ideals? nice assumption.

u might want to read the title of this thread again.

Huh?

I was arguing within the context of the thread, ie how would u change the world(which u obviously have some opinions on) u switched it up to "fuck the liberals".

HUH? You think it is only liberals who are do gooders and try to dictate how others should live under penalties???????WOW!

look i dont want to come across like a now it all at all. These are just some ideas that i have come to after just doing a tiny bit of reading up. This is a new interest of mine so for sure, there is a lot that i still don't know. But unlike a lot of people i don't get mad when someone proves me wrong. I look at it as i am learning something new and will be better for it in the long run. Im not saying a perfect world can exist, but i think there are drastic improvements that can be made. Will they? I realize that in all likelihood not a god damn thing will change and things will continue down it's current slope.

FUCK changing one thing lol

There is too much wrong with OUR COUNTRY ALONE, let alone the world.

One thing I would LOVE to change in our country would be that I would get rid of this crap where minorities can get scholarships on a really low GPA, low attendance levels, and no extra-cirriculars being done.

I think that is just a waste of money, and is unfair to everyone else.

Why should other people get screwed out of money when they get a 3.5 GPA, perfect attendance, do community service, play sports, and are actually trying to EARN the scholarships?

This was a huge case in my high school. I know alot of people that worked their asses off and had 3.5's, all the way up to like 3.8's that didnt get any sort of scholarships. How fucking ridiculous is that? But someone from the inner city with a 1.2 GPA or whatever can get a good amount of money just because he and his family are too lazy to work their asses off.

Its just another case that the hard-working middle class citizens of this country are not appreciated in the least.

NoRegret wrote:

FUCK changing one thing lol

There is too much wrong with OUR COUNTRY ALONE, let alone the world.

One thing I would LOVE to change in our country would be that I would get rid of this crap where minorities can get scholarships on a really low GPA, low attendance levels, and no extra-cirriculars being done.

I think that is just a waste of money, and is unfair to everyone else.

Why should other people get screwed out of money when they get a 3.5 GPA, perfect attendance, do community service, play sports, and are actually trying to EARN the scholarships?

This was a huge case in my high school. I know alot of people that worked their asses off and had 3.5's, all the way up to like 3.8's that didnt get any sort of scholarships. How fucking ridiculous is that? But someone from the inner city with a 1.2 GPA or whatever can get a good amount of money just because he and his family are too lazy to work their asses off.

Its just another case that the hard-working middle class citizens of this country are not appreciated in the least.

How about the fact that with the money we spend on sustaining our wars and foreign occupation of other countries, that money alone would be enough to send every high-school graduate to a 4 year college.....

oggy420 wrote:

NoRegret wrote:

FUCK changing one thing lol

There is too much wrong with OUR COUNTRY ALONE, let alone the world.

One thing I would LOVE to change in our country would be that I would get rid of this crap where minorities can get scholarships on a really low GPA, low attendance levels, and no extra-cirriculars being done.

I think that is just a waste of money, and is unfair to everyone else.

Why should other people get screwed out of money when they get a 3.5 GPA, perfect attendance, do community service, play sports, and are actually trying to EARN the scholarships?

This was a huge case in my high school. I know alot of people that worked their asses off and had 3.5's, all the way up to like 3.8's that didnt get any sort of scholarships. How fucking ridiculous is that? But someone from the inner city with a 1.2 GPA or whatever can get a good amount of money just because he and his family are too lazy to work their asses off.

Its just another case that the hard-working middle class citizens of this country are not appreciated in the least.

How about the fact that with the money we spend on sustaining our wars and foreign occupation of other countries, that money alone would be enough to send every high-school graduate to a 4 year college.....

Dont jump down my throat dude. Im not the guy who said "pick one thing"

And at this point sustaining our wars and foreign occupation is needed. We leave...they're going to re-group, get stronger, and most likely attack.

yea? Just like iraq attacked us right? Just like they had nuclear capabilities right? Oh wait no. Just like they had stock piles of chemical weapons right? Oh wait no thats right. Even if we did find weapons it's not like our government is the one who gave it to them or anything?

So when all else fails, well let's just use democracy as an excuse. Yea there were no weapons, but hey at least they'll have a meaningless democracy.

oggy420 wrote:

yea? Just like iraq attacked us right? Just like they had nuclear capabilities right? Oh wait no. Just like they had stock piles of chemical weapons right? Oh wait no thats right. Even if we did find weapons it's not like our government is the one who gave it to them or anything?

So when all else fails, well let's just use democracy as an excuse. Yea there were no weapons, but hey at least they'll have a meaningless democracy.

I'm not fuckin ARGUING WITH YOU dude.

I NEVER said any of that was over there. I DONT SUPPORT THE WAR.

I am SAYING...IT IS WHAT IT IS SO DEAL WITH IT.

Iraq isnt even where most of our troops are anymore....its Afghanistan, and if you looked into the subject more, you'd know that. Afghanistan, and the taliban poses a HUGE threat for future terrorism, especially if we decided to just pull out right now.

yo im not trying to argue either. Im just passionate about this stuff. On the subject of afghanistan, i am not knowledgeable to really say whats what. Although i just bought this book called "Invisible History" Afghanistan's Untold Story. All i can tell you is that if you think fighting the taliban is the sole reason why we are in afghanistan than you are misinformed.

anyway i have some shit to do today that i totally forgot about.

oggy420 wrote:

yo im not trying to argue either. Im just passionate about this stuff. On the subject of afghanistan, i am not knowledgeable to really say whats what. Although i just bought this book called "Invisible History" Afghanistan's Untold Story. All i can tell you is that if you think fighting the taliban is the sole reason why we are in afghanistan than you are misinformed.

anyway i have some shit to do today that i totally forgot about.

That isnt what I am saying at all. I am saying if we pull out of Afghanistan right now...the taliban will re-group, get stronger, and attack.

Not me. I have jack shit to do til monday unfortunately. Got an invite to go back and work at the haunted house I worked at last year...one of the top ones in the country, but since I will be workin 2nd shift full time, I wont be able to do it...kinda sucks.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

we currently have enough resources on this planet so that everyone could live comfortably. The problem is, most because of the profit structure society, that we rely on non-sustainable energy. Imagine if instead of all those scientists coming together to create the atom bomb, they instead focused all of their time and energy on creating sustainable energy forms? We need to move in a direction that does not impede science and technology. I mean think about it, technology is just going to continue to evolve and soon replace nearly all jobs. You are seeing it everywhere. With this profit structure what will happen to people who lose their jobs because of it. The one thing that has always been the tool that has helped us the most is technology.

The misconception of scarcity on this planet is amazing. We have plenty of natural resources. We have natural resources that are yet to be discovered or harvested properly. But all of these things go against the profit structure. I mean they burn huge piles of diamonds just to keep the supply low and that then creates more profit because there are less diamonds. This is happening all over the world. Wherever there is an option to make a few extra bucks it is taken regardless of cost to the environment or the people.

Define everyone? Every human? It is a complete lie and myth that we have enough resources. The existence of the resources alone is debatable but what is not is any idea that we could ever learn to harvest them practically or responsibly with no damage to the planet. So even if they did exist, which they don't(please see deforestation, fossil fuel supplies, overfishing, man-created extinctions) it's not like we could really use them.


Humans are an evolutionary failure.

This type of thinking will get you no where. Here is a passage from a book i started today

"The notion that there can be no superior alternative to the status quo is more far-fetched today than ever, in this era when there are mind-boggling technologies for bettering the human condition. It is true that it remains unclear how to establish a viable, free, and humane post-capitalist order, and the very notion has a utopian air about it. But every advance in history , from ending slavery and establishing democracy to ending formal colonialism, has had to conquer the notion at some point that it was impossible to do because it had never been done before. It is worth pointing out that organized political activism is responsible for the degree of democracy we have today, for universal adult suffrage, for women's rights, for trade unions, for civil rights, for the freedoms we do enjoy. Even if the notion of a post-capitalist society seems unattainable, we do know that human political activity can make the world we live in vastly more humane. And as we get to that point, perhaps we will again be able to think in terms of building a political economy based on principles of cooperation, equality, self-government, and individual freedom.

Until then, the struggle for social change is not a hypothetical issue. The current neoliberal order has generated massive political and economic crises from east Asia to eastern Europe and Latin America. The quality of life in the developed nations of Europe, Japan, and Nort America is fragile and the society's are in considerable turmoil. Tremendous upheaval is in the cards for the coming years and decades. There is considerable doubt about the outcome of that upheaval, however, and little reason to think it will automatically lead to a democratic and humane resolution. That will be determined by how we, the people, organize, respond, and act.

If you act like there is no possibility of change for the better, you guarantee that there will be no change for the better. The choice is ours, the choice is yours. "

oggy420 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

we currently have enough resources on this planet so that everyone could live comfortably. The problem is, most because of the profit structure society, that we rely on non-sustainable energy. Imagine if instead of all those scientists coming together to create the atom bomb, they instead focused all of their time and energy on creating sustainable energy forms? We need to move in a direction that does not impede science and technology. I mean think about it, technology is just going to continue to evolve and soon replace nearly all jobs. You are seeing it everywhere. With this profit structure what will happen to people who lose their jobs because of it. The one thing that has always been the tool that has helped us the most is technology.

The misconception of scarcity on this planet is amazing. We have plenty of natural resources. We have natural resources that are yet to be discovered or harvested properly. But all of these things go against the profit structure. I mean they burn huge piles of diamonds just to keep the supply low and that then creates more profit because there are less diamonds. This is happening all over the world. Wherever there is an option to make a few extra bucks it is taken regardless of cost to the environment or the people.

Define everyone? Every human? It is a complete lie and myth that we have enough resources. The existence of the resources alone is debatable but what is not is any idea that we could ever learn to harvest them practically or responsibly with no damage to the planet. So even if they did exist, which they don't(please see deforestation, fossil fuel supplies, overfishing, man-created extinctions) it's not like we could really use them.


Humans are an evolutionary failure.

This type of thinking will get you no where. Here is a passage from a book i started today

"The notion that there can be no superior alternative to the status quo is more far-fetched today than ever, in this era when there are mind-boggling technologies for bettering the human condition. It is true that it remains unclear how to establish a viable, free, and humane post-capitalist order, and the very notion has a utopian air about it. But every advance in history , from ending slavery and establishing democracy to ending formal colonialism, has had to conquer the notion at some point that it was impossible to do because it had never been done before. It is worth pointing out that organized political activism is responsible for the degree of democracy we have today, for universal adult suffrage, for women's rights, for trade unions, for civil rights, for the freedoms we do enjoy. Even if the notion of a post-capitalist society seems unattainable, we do know that human political activity can make the world we live in vastly more humane. And as we get to that point, perhaps we will again be able to think in terms of building a political economy based on principles of cooperation, equality, self-government, and individual freedom.

Until then, the struggle for social change is not a hypothetical issue. The current neoliberal order has generated massive political and economic crises from east Asia to eastern Europe and Latin America. The quality of life in the developed nations of Europe, Japan, and Nort America is fragile and the society's are in considerable turmoil. Tremendous upheaval is in the cards for the coming years and decades. There is considerable doubt about the outcome of that upheaval, however, and little reason to think it will automatically lead to a democratic and humane resolution. That will be determined by how we, the people, organize, respond, and act.

If you act like there is no possibility of change for the better, you guarantee that there will be no change for the better. The choice is ours, the choice is yours. "

Read enough history and you'll come to the inevitable conclusion that mankind's greatest disasters have come about as the result of people convinced they have an answer no one else has ever thought of and then trying to implement sweeping social changes.

Not only are small increments less risky, they are all mankind is capable of pulling off successfully.

Utopian goals and utopian believers invariably bring about catastrophe.

i couldn't disagree more really. You're saying to sit back and do nothing and just watch as the world falls apart. Sorry but i don't agree with that line of thinking.

oggy420 wrote:

i couldn't disagree more really. You're saying to sit back and do nothing and just watch as the world falls apart. Sorry but i don't agree with that line of thinking.

Nope. Here's what I am saying. First, DO NO HARM!

Utopians led to HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of deaths in just the last 100 years that books like the one you quoted just pretend didn't happen.

Second, the idea the worlds is in collaps is a cry that began with the Club of Rome in the 1960's and was preached to me when I was in college lo those many years ago. According to that belief system, by now the world would have ALREADY collapsed due to running out of resources, mass starvation and pollution. They were wrong then, ridiculously so, and they are wrong today. A world in collapse doesn't have more human beings than ever before, living longer lives than ever before, wealthier than 99% of ever before and with more people living in freedom than ever before.

Third, we have made ENORMOUS progress over the last century or so by any measure one wishes to choose. It didn't happen because utopians implemented their marvelous ideas. It happened because human beings have embedded within us a desire to achieve and excel. Or at least enough of us do to make a difference. What are the key drivers of that process? Three big things and a bunch of little ones. The biggies include dynamic capitalism in which the price mechanism which assures optimal use of resources, the technological improvements it inevitably leads to and representative governments.

Feel the need to be an activist? OK, but be a humble one. Be always aware of the possibility you may be wrong. Stay open minded enough to change your mind when the data proves you're wrong. Most importanlty don't become a committed ideologue. Keep ALL your beliefs contingent on what you learn tomorrow. Lastly, because you're human, therefore wrong a lot, keep the changes incremental so if you are wrong you cause fixable problems, not catastrophes.

I agree that humans are an evolutionary failure in that we humans have enacted a story in which we believe we are pinnacle of evolution, that the world is here and was made for man, and that we have the inherent right to conquer and rule the world. An idea thought to be capable of reaching utopia as a society. But, the more we think we know and act on it, the more we cause things to collapse because we are flawed.

We don't live by the natural laws of life anymore, by the laws of limited competition, as all other life does. All species who have broken away from these law have gone extinct or become extinct as a result of others who have broken those laws. Our ignorance to this is celebrated daily. The path that led to us becoming known taxonomically as homo sapiens went through by the very laws we now defy.

We don't evolve anymore. We don't adapt. We wage war on the natural process of life. We wage war against the complexity of life. We live in defiance of the natural checks and balances of life. It comes at the expense of, everything.

At least that's what I think.

GDPofDRC wrote:

I agree that humans are an evolutionary failure in that we humans have enacted a story in which we believe we are pinnacle of evolution, that the world is here and was made for man, and that we have the inherent right to conquer and rule the world. An idea thought to be capable of reaching utopia as a society. But, the more we think we know and act on it, the more we cause things to collapse because we are flawed.

We don't live by the natural laws of life anymore, by the laws of limited competition, as all other life does. All species who have broken away from these law have gone extinct or become extinct as a result of others who have broken those laws. Our ignorance to this is celebrated daily. The path that led to us becoming known taxonomically as homo sapiens went through by the very laws we now defy.

We don't evolve anymore. We don't adapt. We wage war on the natural process of life. We wage war against the complexity of life. We live in defiance of the natural checks and balances of life. It comes at the expense of, everything.

At least that's what I think.

Our intelligence is what saved us, and that intelligence has morphed into arrogance, which will undo us.