CHAVEZ-TAYLOR

The debate on this fight almost always centers on whether or not Richard Steele acted wisely in stopping the fight. I want to focus on something else.

After eleven rounds Dave Moretti had it 107-102 Taylor (8-3 in rounds). Jerry Roth had it 108-101 (nine rounds to two) Taylor. Chuck Giampa had it 105-104 (6-5) Chavez. Now watching it that night I had it 7-3-1 Taylor at that point. Yet when the twelfth round began Chavez looked like he hadn't yet been hit and Meldrick looked as if he'd had his hands tied behind his back all night long. As Flip Homansky noted "Taylor suffered a facial fracture, was urinating blood and his face was grotesquely swollen.

Now here is my question. If the first rule of scoring a round is who landed the cleaner punches, and the second is "effective aggressiveness" how in hell could Chavez have been behind? How likely is it that somehow Chavez caused all or most of that damage in five rounds or less? The word "effective" means "producing or having a striking effect." It seems to me that Taylor's injuries could ONLY have been caused by repeated blows over an extended period. In other words Chavez's blows were EFFECTIVE. Taylor's, as flashy and impressive as they were, simply weren't. Talyor landed clean punches, Chavez landed clean, vastly more damaging punches. In fact Taylor landed an incredible 457 shots compared to Chavez's under 300. But whose punches told the tale?

In hindsight, doesn't Chuck Giampa seem to have understood the fight a little better?

The I have a nearly bizarre query. Is it possible that the scoring of this fight, and the incongruity of Taylor's post fight condition, got embedded in the heads of Jack Woodruff, Mickey Vann and Franz Marti the night of the Chavez-Sweet pea fight? Is it possible the judges figured something HAD to be happening that wasn't? Call it my conspiracy theory for the week.

Ring Generalship belonged to Taylor that night.Taylor was the busier fighter which gave him a clear advantage in my eyes.

Pea getting screwed in the Chavez fight would not explain him getting screwed in the Ramirez fight.I think judges get jaded by a fighter's style and tend to penalize him for it.The same thing happened to Jimmy Young.

sorry marble, in my eyes it seemed Taylor was outlanding Chavez damn near 5 to 1 the problem was Taylor wasnt no sweet pea, those 1's that were landing were landing flush as shit

no way did Giampa have the right score, Taylor was winning that fight hands down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=porsK2f9emo

especially early he was eating the living fuck out of Chavez with sick combos, I know it sounds sick, but some say oh Chavez would have killed Tqaylor in those 6 seconds

look at Taylor

what do you think he would have rather had? the victory he earned and deserved or the sadness that came after this fight

I am sure his family and loved ones are glad he is still around but lets say he does die in the ring. Meldrick Taylor wanted to continue and it is clear by the look on his face of utter disgust when Steele stopped the fight that he was still there mentally IMO.

sorry Don King was a snake and Steele had a history of weird stoppages in Kings fighters favor, not saying he was necessarily wrong cause maybe he did save meldricks life but it is a controversial fight for a reason

Meldrick deserved to win that fight and 6 seconds longer and he does, also his left hook was landing 3 to 1 on Chavez's it was a masterful performance by both men shows how great they both were. But Meldrick got fucked that night IMO.

Lou Duva also screwed the pooch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=porsK2f9emo

5 seconds left I cannot believe they stopped that fight

- Larry Merchant

taylor clearly had a large lead in that fight..many times a winner can look like a loser by apearance.pac-clottey for example and that fight was far from close.steele did the right thing and even that night i felt he did...taylor yes could of continued and won the fight which he not only earned but deserved....as i remember it since i havent look at clips of that fight since it happened was that taylor commited a cardnial sin in boxing...that sin was simply not nodding yes when the ref approached him...we all have seen it many times over when a fighter gets knocked down he gets up and nods yes fast indicating hes ok..even before the ref asks the usual question are you all right..taylor was asked a few times and did not respond at all leaving steel no choice but to do whats in the best interest of that fighter at that time...there should be no conspiracy or even controversy involving steele..taylor is to blame for that stopage.all he had to do was nod yes and the fight was his...

maybe taylor just marked up easily, and suffered damage more frequently, be it his skin type or his bone structure, as for the pissing blood? what the hell even causes that? lol

several fighters have peed blod after a fight.

it doesn't matter if there is 2 seconds or 2 minutes, a proper stoppage is a proper stoppage...


to the point of the thread: it would seem that Chavez' punches had more on them or Chavez absorbed Taylor's punches better.

I've got a good question Marble: If the fight hadn't been stopped, and Taylor wins a split decision, who do you think most boxing fans would pick as the 'real' winner of that fight?

Clue: yeah Taylor would have won on points, but in the process he got the shit beat out of him.

Damn, I got my butt kicked in this thread!

sugarrayhatton wrote:

maybe taylor just marked up easily, and suffered damage more frequently, be it his skin type or his bone structure, as for the pissing blood? what the hell even causes that? lol

getting the kdneys pounded, you know how you always see fighters take a drink of water then spit it back out

its cause they dont want their kidneys to expand during the fight

also marble on your alst question I flat out think those judges were worried they would get lynched if they gave the fight to Pernell

According to the HBO documentary on "The Tale of Taylor vs. Chavez" the following things happened which led to the stoppage and actual conclusion of the action.

1. Lou Duva and Benton telling "Taylor" he needed the last round to win. It's a little embarrassing watching the interview when Lou Duva stated "We told him to box. Be like Muhammad Ali, but don't fight." That compared to the actual footage which shows Duva imploring Taylor to win the last round because he needed it.

2. The Flashing Red Light: This light signals "10 seconds left in a round." Richard Steele missed it.

3. Lou Duva on the ring apron while Richard Steele is talking to Meldrick Taylor. Lou Duva was shouting instructions to Taylor. At the same time, Steele was asking him, "Are you alright? Are you alright?" This led to Taylor looking at Duva and not answering Steele's very important question. Steele figured Meldrick was out of it and stopped the action.

4. My conclusion, based on the facts discussed in this thread, is that everyone is to blame for the fight being stopped. Should the fight have been stopped with 3 seconds left? It's better to be safe than sorry, though it's hard to see Chavez getting to him in 3 seconds. I have a whole different take on this fight which is more controversial than anything discussed here, however, I have no proof.

The I have a nearly bizarre query. Is it possible that the scoring of this fight, and the incongruity of Taylor's post fight condition, got embedded in the heads of Jack Woodruff, Mickey Vann and Franz Marti the night of the Chavez-Sweet pea fight? Is it possible the judges figured something HAD to be happening that wasn't? Call it my conspiracy theory for the week. [/quote]Very interesting theory here. There's no way to find out what was going on in the heads of the judges although I did think a theory similar to this was why Lennox Lewis was given the decision over Evander in the 2nd fight. As far as Pernell vs. Julio, I saw that as a glorified sparring session for Whitiker. At no time did Chavez seem to threaten and Pernell's face showed no damage at all. Good theory, but I'm sticking with the "Don King Skank" hypothesis. LOL

I have a whole different take on this fight which is more controversial than anything discussed here, however, I have no proof.

what is it? im curious lol

sugarrayhatton wrote:

I have a whole different take on this fight which is more controversial than anything discussed here, however, I have no proof.

what is it? im curious lol

LOL: Me and my big mouth. There are lot of people here who respect Chavez and I'm one of them. Sugar Ray, If I have no proof, it would be less than honest to attack a man's reputation. I've done it once and I was sorry then. I don't want to make the same mistake twice. It's not a Sherlock Holmes philosophy. Just think about the fight. You may come up with the same thought. But these guys would get angry at me if I started making accusations without a thread of evidence.

ahhh fuck PM it to me then lol, im not old enough to have watchd the fight live, and dont know any of the back story leading up to the fight or anything like that.

I still to this day think Taylor got screwed out of the biggest win of his life. That man went through hell that night and had noting to show for it.

4445Frank wrote:

sugarrayhatton wrote:

I have a whole different take on this fight which is more controversial than anything discussed here, however, I have no proof.

what is it? im curious lol

LOL: Me and my big mouth. There are lot of people here who respect Chavez and I'm one of them. Sugar Ray, If I have no proof, it would be less than honest to attack a man's reputation. I've done it once and I was sorry then. I don't want to make the same mistake twice. It's not a Sherlock Holmes philosophy. Just think about the fight. You may come up with the same thought. But these guys would get angry at me if I started making accusations without a thread of evidence.

heres my 2 guesses

1. the gloves
2. Don King

bird is clever lol

and possibly a 3

Lou Duva was in on it somehow? telling Meldrick he needed the round (but i dont think Georgie Benton would do that), but getting on the ring apron is weird and then misremembering his last round advice

ill just say, taylor suffered injuries that looked like cotto against margarito

sugarrayhatton wrote:

ill just say, taylor suffered injuries that looked like cotto against margarito

Agreed and thats not the first time I ever heard those rumors either with all the damage that was done to him that night. Looked like he was hitting Taylor with Bricks!

only sadly i think they were worst

I will say this, Taylor and Cotto damn near foguht perfect fights and came out looking like they were put through meat grinders