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 Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.

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Bigs03
boomer sooner
LA
oggy420
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Wolfgangsta
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Best guard?
BJ Penn
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap38%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 38% [ 5 ]
Frank Mir
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Shinya Aoki
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap54%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 54% [ 7 ]
Nate Diaz
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Nick Diaz
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Big Nog
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Damian Maia
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Gegard Mousasi
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Paulo Filho
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap8%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 8% [ 1 ]
Dan Hornbuckle(lol)
Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_lcap0%Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Vote_rcap
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 13
 

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Wolfgangsta
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PostSubject: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:20 pm

I will add a poll to this but I want to get all the canidates lined up first.


Damian Maia, Fedor, Werdum, Aoki, BJ Penn, Nick and Nate Diaz and Frank Mir are my initial ideas.


Anyone else we should add?


Last edited by Wolfgangsta on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:37 pm

Big Nog?
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:38 pm

Mir?
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:39 pm

are we going with established fighters? Cause Roger Gracie is pretty good on the ground i've heard
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:42 pm

he listed mir...
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:44 pm

yea i know i was questioning it
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:46 pm

Oggy's questioning it if anything
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:54 pm

I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)

Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:56 pm

Cheick Kongo
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:07 pm

Condit, Torres, Filho

Nate the Great...kidding.

And yes, Mir should absolutely be included. When you isolate the discussion to only guard play, Mir is one of the best in MMA.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:10 pm

The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.

Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir

LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.

MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.

WW: Nick Diaz

LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki




Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:11 pm

Wolfgangsta wrote:
I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)

Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him.
yeah, true... earlier in his career he was subing ppl from guard a lot more
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm

The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.

Paulo Filho is a great add.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm

Filho and Palhares

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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm

Bigs, good adds with NBK and Paulo.

However. Miguel Torres guard seemed like it was some big urban legend and everybody was afraid to go in it even though i'm not sure if Torres ever displayed his amazing guard in a WEC match. Bowles and Benavidez were completely unphased by his guard. I mean, i guess if everybody believes he has one of the most dangerous guards in MMA, i guess we should believe it but as soon as people stopped backing off when Torres fell on his back, he really got the shit kicked out of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm

Wolfgangsta wrote:
The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.

Paulo Filho is a great add.

I disagree. If the guy inside the guard is not doing anything from the top except fighting off submission after submission...i say the person on the bottom is the agressor and the person on top is vulnerable...and losing *cough* Jared Hess vs. Shlemenko *cough*


Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm

KingsOwn19 wrote:
The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.

Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir

LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.

MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.

WW: Nick Diaz

LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki



Everyone has good sub defense these days, that's a big reason why the guard offensive guard is dying a slow death. Also, judges don't score correctly for guys fighting off their backs. It's sad but that's the way it is.

I think we should also add Mousasi.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:20 pm

I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:24 pm

KingsOwn19 wrote:
I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia.

I don't know, Mousasi has good subs from guard also and after seeing the damage he did to King Mo from his guard I was pretty impressed.

Condit and Mousasi have very effective guards even if they're not attempting as submission.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:37 pm

Deigo and Bas had fights where their guard attack was vicious.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:41 pm

Hazelett is still pretty good off his back
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:46 pm

I agree on Mousasi and was gonna post him when Kings said he was blanking on LHWs, but it was a combo of subs and his kicks/strikes off his back and wasn't sure what we were going for.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 pm

Voted for Penn because I am a homer. Condit impressed the hell out of me a few times.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 6:01 pm

Condit doesn't sub top ten guys off his back like Aoki and Maia do on the regular. I think it boils down to those two. John Fitch would agree. I went with Aoki because he got both Hellboy and Eddie in recent times.
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PostSubject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.   Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 7:05 pm

The guard is dead.

10 years ago people won from it often. Today it has morphed into a defensive position primarily. Top game has gotten a lot better. Few can use the guard offensively and be effective anymore.

I might say Aoki or Daiz maybe now.

Aoki has shown he can't do a lot with good top guys though and Diaz first line of offense is on his feet. I'm not convinced he will fare much better against an opponent with solid top game.

The ground/guard/back game has been established. The top/power/gnp game has responded to that establishment over the years and neutralized it for those who are good at it.
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