| Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. | |
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+6Bigs03 boomer sooner LA oggy420 killerofchicken Wolfgangsta 10 posters |
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Best guard? | BJ Penn | | 38% | [ 5 ] | Frank Mir | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Shinya Aoki | | 54% | [ 7 ] | Nate Diaz | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Nick Diaz | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Big Nog | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Damian Maia | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Gegard Mousasi | | 0% | [ 0 ] | Paulo Filho | | 8% | [ 1 ] | Dan Hornbuckle(lol) | | 0% | [ 0 ] |
| Total Votes : 13 | | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:20 pm | |
| I will add a poll to this but I want to get all the canidates lined up first.
Damian Maia, Fedor, Werdum, Aoki, BJ Penn, Nick and Nate Diaz and Frank Mir are my initial ideas.
Anyone else we should add?
Last edited by Wolfgangsta on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total | |
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killerofchicken Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Mauricio Shogun Rua, BJ Penn, AXE MURDERER,Fedor, CroCop, Vitor Belfort, JDS Posts : 16162 Join date : 2010-02-28 Age : 38 Location : Iowa
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:37 pm | |
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oggy420 Bronze Belt
Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:38 pm | |
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oggy420 Bronze Belt
Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:39 pm | |
| are we going with established fighters? Cause Roger Gracie is pretty good on the ground i've heard | |
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killerofchicken Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Mauricio Shogun Rua, BJ Penn, AXE MURDERER,Fedor, CroCop, Vitor Belfort, JDS Posts : 16162 Join date : 2010-02-28 Age : 38 Location : Iowa
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:42 pm | |
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oggy420 Bronze Belt
Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:44 pm | |
| yea i know i was questioning it | |
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LA Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo Posts : 15046 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 37 Location : Boston, Mass and Los Angeles, California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:46 pm | |
| Oggy's questioning it if anything | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:54 pm | |
| I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)
Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him. | |
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boomer sooner Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, since way back Posts : 1191 Join date : 2009-09-30 Age : 43 Location : Flint, MI
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:56 pm | |
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Bigs03 Black Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Fedor and GSP Posts : 3124 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 44 Location : Houston, TX
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:07 pm | |
| Condit, Torres, Filho
Nate the Great...kidding.
And yes, Mir should absolutely be included. When you isolate the discussion to only guard play, Mir is one of the best in MMA. | |
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KingsOwn19 Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva,Dan Henderson, Emelianenko Fedor, Josh Barnett Posts : 12421 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Northern California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:10 pm | |
| The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.
Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir
LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.
MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.
WW: Nick Diaz
LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki
Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total | |
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killerofchicken Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Mauricio Shogun Rua, BJ Penn, AXE MURDERER,Fedor, CroCop, Vitor Belfort, JDS Posts : 16162 Join date : 2010-02-28 Age : 38 Location : Iowa
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:11 pm | |
| - Wolfgangsta wrote:
- I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)
Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him. yeah, true... earlier in his career he was subing ppl from guard a lot more | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm | |
| The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.
Paulo Filho is a great add. | |
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LA Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo Posts : 15046 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 37 Location : Boston, Mass and Los Angeles, California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm | |
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KingsOwn19 Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva,Dan Henderson, Emelianenko Fedor, Josh Barnett Posts : 12421 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Northern California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:15 pm | |
| Bigs, good adds with NBK and Paulo.
However. Miguel Torres guard seemed like it was some big urban legend and everybody was afraid to go in it even though i'm not sure if Torres ever displayed his amazing guard in a WEC match. Bowles and Benavidez were completely unphased by his guard. I mean, i guess if everybody believes he has one of the most dangerous guards in MMA, i guess we should believe it but as soon as people stopped backing off when Torres fell on his back, he really got the shit kicked out of him. | |
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KingsOwn19 Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva,Dan Henderson, Emelianenko Fedor, Josh Barnett Posts : 12421 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Northern California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm | |
| - Wolfgangsta wrote:
- The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.
Paulo Filho is a great add. I disagree. If the guy inside the guard is not doing anything from the top except fighting off submission after submission...i say the person on the bottom is the agressor and the person on top is vulnerable...and losing *cough* Jared Hess vs. Shlemenko *cough*
Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Bigs03 Black Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Fedor and GSP Posts : 3124 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 44 Location : Houston, TX
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm | |
| - KingsOwn19 wrote:
- The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.
Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir
LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.
MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.
WW: Nick Diaz
LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki
Everyone has good sub defense these days, that's a big reason why the guard offensive guard is dying a slow death. Also, judges don't score correctly for guys fighting off their backs. It's sad but that's the way it is. I think we should also add Mousasi. | |
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KingsOwn19 Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva,Dan Henderson, Emelianenko Fedor, Josh Barnett Posts : 12421 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Northern California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:20 pm | |
| I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia. | |
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Bigs03 Black Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Fedor and GSP Posts : 3124 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 44 Location : Houston, TX
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:24 pm | |
| - KingsOwn19 wrote:
- I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia.
I don't know, Mousasi has good subs from guard also and after seeing the damage he did to King Mo from his guard I was pretty impressed. Condit and Mousasi have very effective guards even if they're not attempting as submission. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:37 pm | |
| Deigo and Bas had fights where their guard attack was vicious. | |
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oggy420 Bronze Belt
Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 35
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:41 pm | |
| Hazelett is still pretty good off his back | |
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LA Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Lyoto Machida, BJ Penn, Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo Posts : 15046 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 37 Location : Boston, Mass and Los Angeles, California
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:46 pm | |
| I agree on Mousasi and was gonna post him when Kings said he was blanking on LHWs, but it was a combo of subs and his kicks/strikes off his back and wasn't sure what we were going for. | |
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acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 pm | |
| Voted for Penn because I am a homer. Condit impressed the hell out of me a few times. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:01 pm | |
| Condit doesn't sub top ten guys off his back like Aoki and Maia do on the regular. I think it boils down to those two. John Fitch would agree. I went with Aoki because he got both Hellboy and Eddie in recent times. | |
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GDPofDRC Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Shogun, Fedor, Wand, Saku, Hendo, BJ, Bas, Cain, Mike Vallely Posts : 21274 Join date : 2009-08-04 Age : 104 Location : Fresyes, CA
| Subject: Re: Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:05 pm | |
| The guard is dead.
10 years ago people won from it often. Today it has morphed into a defensive position primarily. Top game has gotten a lot better. Few can use the guard offensively and be effective anymore.
I might say Aoki or Daiz maybe now.
Aoki has shown he can't do a lot with good top guys though and Diaz first line of offense is on his feet. I'm not convinced he will fare much better against an opponent with solid top game.
The ground/guard/back game has been established. The top/power/gnp game has responded to that establishment over the years and neutralized it for those who are good at it. | |
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| Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010. | |
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