Most dangerous guard player in MMA in June 2010.

Last edited by Wolfgangsta on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:56 pm; edited 2 times in total

I will add a poll to this but I want to get all the canidates lined up first.

Damian Maia, Fedor, Werdum, Aoki, BJ Penn, Nick and Nate Diaz and Frank Mir are my initial ideas.

Anyone else we should add?

Big Nog?

Bronze Belt Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 36

Bronze Belt Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 36

are we going with established fighters? Cause Roger Gracie is pretty good on the ground i've heard

he listed mir...

Bronze Belt Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 36

yea i know i was questioning it

Oggy's questioning it if anything

I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)

Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him.

Cheick Kongo

Condit, Torres, Filho

Nate the Great...kidding.

And yes, Mir should absolutely be included. When you isolate the discussion to only guard play, Mir is one of the best in MMA.

Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total

The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.

Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir

LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.

MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.

WW: Nick Diaz

LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki

Wolfgangsta wrote:: I wouldn't vote for him, I don't think that much of his ground game and everyone knows that, but I'd add him to the poll based on his reputation and past wins(Lesnar, Sylvia especially)

Big Nog has pulled I think one sub off his back in years, but ya I'll add him.

yeah, true... earlier in his career he was subing ppl from guard a lot more

The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.

Paulo Filho is a great add.

Filho and Palhares

Bigs, good adds with NBK and Paulo.

However. Miguel Torres guard seemed like it was some big urban legend and everybody was afraid to go in it even though i'm not sure if Torres ever displayed his amazing guard in a WEC match. Bowles and Benavidez were completely unphased by his guard. I mean, i guess if everybody believes he has one of the most dangerous guards in MMA, i guess we should believe it but as soon as people stopped backing off when Torres fell on his back, he really got the shit kicked out of him.

Last edited by KingsOwn19 on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

Wolfgangsta wrote:: The guard is not an advantagous position these days. On your back - losing.

Paulo Filho is a great add.

I disagree. If the guy inside the guard is not doing anything from the top except fighting off submission after submission...i say the person on the bottom is the agressor and the person on top is vulnerable...and losing *cough* Jared Hess vs. Shlemenko *cough*

KingsOwn19 wrote:: The guard is almost dead in MMA...even though i can't stand the reasons why. I think the guard should considered an advantage position unless the person on top is actually causing damage but nothing annoys me more than somebody sitting in his opponents guard and getting points for "being on top"...FUCK THAT. The person inside the guard is at much greater risk of being finished then the man applying the guard. Unless it's Fedor-Kohsaka or Fedor-Nog levels of punishment from inside the guard, then the person on top should be considered the one losing the fight.

Heavyweight: Fabricio Werdum, Big Nogueria and Frank Mir

LHW: I don't even know..Lil Nog?...Shogun? I've always been impressed with Griffin in the gaurd. I'll probably slap myself in the face when somebody drops a name. Total brain fart.

MW: Demian Maia based on work displayed off his back in his career. Jacare is usually on top controlling.

WW: Nick Diaz

LW: BJ Penn and Shinya Aoki

Everyone has good sub defense these days, that's a big reason why the guard offensive guard is dying a slow death. Also, judges don't score correctly for guys fighting off their backs. It's sad but that's the way it is.

I think we should also add Mousasi.

I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia.

KingsOwn19 wrote:: I say Mousasi has one of the most dangerous open guards in MMA because he's incredibly accurate with his upkicks and if you come in lazily he can lock a submission in real fast..but the actual guard he is not on the level of Filho, Palhares(great add LA, can't believe i missed it) and Maia.

I don't know, Mousasi has good subs from guard also and after seeing the damage he did to King Mo from his guard I was pretty impressed.

Condit and Mousasi have very effective guards even if they're not attempting as submission.

Deigo and Bas had fights where their guard attack was vicious.

Bronze Belt Posts : 6483 Join date : 2009-07-15 Age : 36

Hazelett is still pretty good off his back

I agree on Mousasi and was gonna post him when Kings said he was blanking on LHWs, but it was a combo of subs and his kicks/strikes off his back and wasn't sure what we were going for.

Voted for Penn because I am a homer. Condit impressed the hell out of me a few times.

Condit doesn't sub top ten guys off his back like Aoki and Maia do on the regular. I think it boils down to those two. John Fitch would agree. I went with Aoki because he got both Hellboy and Eddie in recent times.

The guard is dead.

10 years ago people won from it often. Today it has morphed into a defensive position primarily. Top game has gotten a lot better. Few can use the guard offensively and be effective anymore.

I might say Aoki or Daiz maybe now.

Aoki has shown he can't do a lot with good top guys though and Diaz first line of offense is on his feet. I'm not convinced he will fare much better against an opponent with solid top game.

The ground/guard/back game has been established. The top/power/gnp game has responded to that establishment over the years and neutralized it for those who are good at it.

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