Ultimate Fedor thread.

Fedor is a liar and is ducking the best compeition and that is a fact because of what he said in the past mixed with what he has said in the past month. You are in a Fedor Coma if you don't realize that. It isn't the UFC's fault he isn't fighting there. It is Fedor and M-1's fault. I was saying the exact opposite last year and even a two months ago. Wish you guys could see the truth that has been put in your lap. I have to study. bbaknabit

Brock Mir 3(if it happens) in 2 years has little to do with Brock's injury, their respective roads crossed injury or no injury.

The Brock Fedor trilogy is a hypothetical based off the Mir Brock possible trilogy, and imo very much calls into question the idea the UFC has all these dream matchups for Fedor.

IMO their is one big time matchup, Brock vs Fedor, and then a bunch of other good possibilities, and if Im Fedor Im questioning why the one big time matchup has to happen on the UFC's watch, when he can find a bunch of good matchups outside the UFC.

And beast please tone done the Fedor Coma rhetoric.

Or alternatively BBC, not everything is cut and dry and black and white blame games for either side are stupid.

Neither side was to blame, or both sides were, how ever you want to see it, and for a laundry list of reasons.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

ohio I feel what you're saying, and I've been saying it for years, but for now, I'll accept Mur as a valid top ten HW until he gives me reason not to.

Then I'll say I knew it all along.

I think he's a top 10 guy too but here's my thing, people say Fedor doesn't fight good fighters very often but these same critics don't mention the fact none of these other elite HWs are doing anything that compares to the guys Fedor is fighting. Mur's clearly a top 5 guy, but if one can complain about Fedor's opponents, they should complain about just about all the other HWs too. Lets say Fedor signed with the UFC instead of SF, would the fight with Brock have happened by now? I don't think so, he had a hole in his stomach. Would the fight with Carwin have taken place? Prolly not, he was hurt too. The only fight that coulda happened was with Cain, and he wasn't really in the conversation 6 months ago, he was atop 10 guy but wasn't regarded like he is this second (clearly an elite guy). Fedor fights legit top 10 guys every time out. There isn't a HW out there who can hold a candle to the caliber of fighters Fedor is going against. He goes against top 5 guys every time out and he finishes those fights. If people want to complain about Fedor's comp thats fine, just complain about every other HWs comp too while you're at it.

Fighters say things about Fedor BECAUSE he IS the best HW ever and they know it. Why else would someone with such small drawing power get attention from Dana and all the fighters. I think it is a dumb argument because both sides are right. I think Fedors inactivity hurts him more then his opponents.

Farmer1906 wrote:

ohiovol62 wrote:

Farmer1906 wrote:

ohiovol62 wrote:

Atleast he fights top 10 fighters. No HW in the UFC fights top 10s on a consistant basis. Maybe JDS. Mur sure as shit doesn't. Brock hasn't fought in damn near a year. Neither has Carwin. Who else is there? Cain, Nog?

What?
Mir has been fighting Brock, Nog, Brock, and Kongo
Nog has been fighting Sylvia, Mir, Couture, and Cain

Carwin, JDS, and Cain are all up and comers. They are just made their name, but between them they have wins over Werdum, Nog, Cro Cop, Rothwell, & Gonzaga.

Mir beat Nog (staph) in January of last year. He beat Brock in his second career fight and was nowhere near a top guy then. Then got shit canned in epic fasion. Kongo? Lol at Kongo being a quality win. Nog fights top 10 guys day in day out but we've been there done that. When I said Nog it came out wrong. I meant to say he fights top guys but it didn't come out that way. My bad.

If you aren't going to count fights vs Brock (2x) and Nog as top 10 fights then what are you going to count. it just seems like no matter what any HW does, it isn't good enough. There is no HW that fights top guys!!!

I can give Mur the win over Nog as legit but a win over a guy who's 1-0 in pro MMA? I just don't think you can say Brock was a top guy then, he was very very green. Which is evident by the fact that he stood up to rest after pounding Mur and promptly got sub'd. JMO

Ohio you know Brock is for real now. Mir is a decent top 5 fighter. Neither are anywhere close to Fedors body of work and will never be. They both would have a legit chance against him. Cain is the future(my opinion).

muayjitsu wrote:

Fighters say things about Fedor BECAUSE he IS the best HW ever and they know it. Why else would someone with such small drawing power get attention from Dana and all the fighters. I think it is a dumb argument because both sides are right. I think Fedors inactivity hurts him more then his opponents.

That is my point and the inactivity is what started me. Everyone cannot say that Fedor in SF would be fighting better competition. I see one guy that is an up and comer in Del Resario. Other than that Overeem, which probably won't happen for atleast 20 months at Fedor's rate. Werdum was beaten already by JDS and others and doesn't deserve a shot at Fedor but people are talking about him being worthy. Why? He did what GG did in BJJ and the same people are making fun of GG or Carwin because that is the only guy Carwin beat. It is a joke all around. I do think Fedor is the #1 HW in the world, but he can't keep ducking the best fighters in the world.

I see what you are saying Wolf. I just feel like it is mostly Fedor's fault that he didn't go to the UFC. He clearly lied about a few things and I think he only wanted to fight once every 8-10 months like he has been doing. Prolly didn't want to fight as much as DW wanted him too also.

I don't think anyone is terribly concerned with Fedor not being in the UFC [I was kind of happy for Coker when I heard he signed Fedor]. We just want to see him in action, period. He's obviously not ducking fights because he's scared, but because M-1 wants more control over Strikeforce and a CBS deal that it has zero stake in. I just want to see the man fight. I don't even care if it's against freakshows anymore, just get him in the cage!

How can you diminish the UFC's HW roster? At least they're active. Cain, and Frank for that matter, accomplished something Fedor never did: finishing Nog [insert "Frank Mir didn't really beat Nog, he had staph infection!" or "Nog sucks now!" comments here]. Not saying they're better than Fedor, but they are damn good. Shane has not done enough to earn a title shot, but he looks impressive, and JDS is on a tear against talented competition [beat the piss out of Werdum]. And Brock had a potentially career ending illness that has kept him on the shelf. This is by far the best HW division since Pride's glory days.

Everyone did complain about Anderson fighting Leites and Cote. I actually think Leites earned his shot though, but the fight sucked. But at that point, Anderson had cleaned out the division's top guys like Hendo, Marquardt and Rich Franklin. He's fighting Maia because Belfort got injured and at least he's fighting. GSP has done the same in his division. Who should he fight that he hasn't already tooled? I guess you guys would rather them sit on the shelf for a year.

With Ninja and Captain, Fedor is always on the side of right and everyone else in opposition to him is evil, or sucks. I guess they don't mind being jerked around. You guys have more patience than me.

Why is it people don't get what I am saying about Fedor? Almost everyone thinks I am hating on his ability when I repeat he is the top fighter. He just doesn't or won't do what is best or what he says he wants to do. He has contradicted himself many times lately and he belongs in an organization fighting better competition.

BBC the reason people think you are hating on his ability as a fighter stems from the fact you also say shit like "fedor is a big chicken ducking ufc fighters", "everything is Fedor's fault, not the UFC's" and "that whole pile of top 10 wins he has is actually proof he only fights hand picked bums", so an obvious assumption is made on the fact that one who thinks this must clearly be a blind Fedor hater.

For years people have pitted the pure and perfect Fedor against the evil/greedy UFC. Now that the UFC is starting to turn out to be right, it's just too hard for some to accept. It doesn't make sense in their world, even when it's not just hte UFC struggling with Fedor anymore. But no one has been able to refute your points arguing that Fedor hasn't exactly come clean on his career's direction so they seem to change the debate about whether or not he's a great fighter. Of course Fedor is the greatest HW, but if he continues this nonsense and the UFC fulfills its HW tournament, those days will be over in my mind.

"turn out to be right"

What does that mean?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

"turn out to be right"

What does that mean?

That his handlers are nearly impossible to deal with.

I love Fedor in the cage, but I get sick to my stomach with all of his out-of-the-cage antics. I get that same feeling from Anderson SIlva's manager, but thankfully there's been no bark to his bite, and Anderson is competing regularly.

Fedor has taken on a steady diet of quality fighters since 2008 though and brutalized them all, so I don't see that side of what you're saying, however, I have said his legacy would be at risk if his managers mess the Strikeforce deal up, and comments like yours prove that. People will keep turning on him.

I see blame on both sides. It wasn't Fedor who constantly trashed White or the UFC in the press at every chance, was it? That still happened. The UFC wasn't right all along, all of a sudden.

And Ed Soras is in that same category I'd say; Anderson has been dancing around with hurt not hurt hurt again not hurt elbows and fights he wants and doesn't want for almost a year now.

boomer sooner wrote:

For years people have pitted the pure and perfect Fedor against the evil/greedy UFC. Now that the UFC is starting to turn out to be right, it's just too hard for some to accept. It doesn't make sense in their world, even when it's not just hte UFC struggling with Fedor anymore. But no one has been able to refute your points arguing that Fedor hasn't exactly come clean on his career's direction so they seem to change the debate about whether or not he's a great fighter. Of course Fedor is the greatest HW, but if he continues this nonsense and the UFC fulfills its HW tournament, those days will be over in my mind.

Oh please..... If Fedor were retire today he would still be considered the greatest MMA fighter in history. If he were to fight Japaneses light weights for the rest of his career he would still be considered the best. For you to not consider him being the greatest HW ever because you have a personal grudge against him is just utter non sense. No one even has close to the resume he has at HW, except for Nog which he destroyed twice.

I really hate arguing in Fedor hater threads because it always turns into a mudslinging contest. The people who hate on Fedor are always the people who started watching MMA post Pride. So fucking what if he never fights in the UFC? He already cemented his legacy. He is still facing top HWs and has be for the past 8 years. If you don't think Overeem and Werdum are elite HWs, well your just ignorant. They have better resumes then most of the elite guys in the UFC now. I know this was said before, but Carwin, Brock, Cain, and JDS are no even close to being considered proven fighters. They are looking up to Fedor. It is not the other way around.

Things have got fickle fast, that is what keeps disturbing me. My main interest has always been what happens in the fight. Performance and winning have always been enough for me because that's real. I can't hold someone accountable for unanswered hypothetical questions because those are not real. If I did it wouldn't be fair. I can't cry over things I don't control. I want to see Fedor fight the world but will not hold it against him for not doing so, I would feel selfish for doing so. He fights. He wins. It's our privilege. That's what I know.

Some might say the UFC was right not to lean to the demands of M-1 during negotiations. I think thats what Boomer was getting at since the 3 fight deal is already being restructured after just one fight. But looking deeper into it one of the other few details that got publicized was that the contract was for 3 fights and one year. Since the deal was originally signed in August of 09, the deadline is fast approaching since Fedor won't be fighting until May or June anyway.

I haven't followed the restructuring thing very closely but it could be an extension on the time frame in which these three fights are supposed to happen. It could also be for M-1 to get greedy with things, as they have done before. As far as it goes, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Both sides were wrong in the failed UFC/M-1 negotiations. Both sides could have relented/done more to achieve a deal. It's been a dead horse since Fedor got signed to Strikeforce.

captain organic wrote:

Fedor gets way too much flack.

Mir just fought Kongo. Carwin's best win is Gonzaga. Those 2 are now fighting for a shot at the belt?

Very possible that Brock will be fighting Mir a 3rd time in 6 career fights. Half his fights are against Mir? Doesn't that sound pretty crazy?

the idea of Fedor rematching Grim would send this board into a frenzy.

I guess it comes with the territory of being the goat, but he is put to a different standard.

Meanwhile UFC great's like GSP and Spider are fighting Hardy and Maia.

As far as I'm concerned, this is where this thread should have ended. Bravo Captain

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

And what happens if Fedor comes to the UFC? Does he fight Brock 3 times in 2 years(kind of like what we very may well see in Brock vs Mir)?

If Mir vs Brock III does happen, does that kind of debunk the idea that the UFC heavy division is far better and deeper then the non ufc heavies?

I mean I like Cain, but has he beaten anyone who we think would be a worthwhile fight right now for Fedor? Same for Carwin, is he a more proven commodity then Overeem, Werdum or Grim?

After Brock beats up Mir again why not have him come fight Fedor in a SF sanctioned fight?

Love you 90% of the time, but this is by far the worst Captain. I don't even know where to start? I have to study for a bit anyways. I hope you take this back. I mean the fake hypotheticals based off Brock getting sick/surgery after a grudge match with Mir is a horrible analogy first off. I pray Ninja doesn't come back with something like this. What happened to some of you guys? It is like you are blind or in a Fedor coma. Ninja starts comparing Silva and saying something that didn't have to do with what I said. He is always top notch. Is this like an internet Punked episode? Am I dreaming?

What's the fake hypothetical? Is mir not favored to beat Carwin? And does the winner then not fight Brock? Will that not be the 3rd time Brock has faced Mir in 6 career fights?


As far as a Fedor coma goes. The UFC has a near monopoly, and has swung that ax heavily against fighters with little leverage, if Fedor wants to say "fuck you" to the UFC then Im not going to get too worked up about it.

FAKE HYPOTHETICAL is Brock fights Fedor three times. The fact that it could happen with Mir and Brock is because of the interim bout because of Brock getting sick/surgery. If Fedor just arrived in the UFC he would beat Brock once and move on to the next guy. You didn't get that?

And for the record, Brock vs Fedor III was a question(not a hypothetical) based off a hypothetical(and hypothetical's are by nature not real, and thus do not need to be paired with a word like fake) that has a very legit shot at happening.

And again, the restructuring of the deal looks only to be an effort by M-1 to get what we all thought they originally signed for, and that is co-promotion. I don't see their fault in it. Coker doesn't seem to think it's a big deal and it will prob work out in SF's favor anyway cause they'll prob sign him to a deal longer then the original.

And while some surely scoffed at my "brock showed come to SF to fight Fedor" don't be at all surprised if at least some of the UFC guys do come to SF to get a crack at the goat. Again Coker knows this, and it is why he is more then willing to go the extra mile.

When you're the goat, you have leverage, only a dumass would not use it.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

muayjitsu wrote:

Fighters say things about Fedor BECAUSE he IS the best HW ever and they know it. Why else would someone with such small drawing power get attention from Dana and all the fighters. I think it is a dumb argument because both sides are right. I think Fedors inactivity hurts him more then his opponents.

That is my point and the inactivity is what started me.

So you just ignore the fact that he hurt his hand which accounted for his inactivity while conveniently forgetting that that despite an injury and contract negotiations he is still more active than than the UFC champion.

ohiovol62 wrote:

people say Fedor doesn't fight good fighters very often but these same critics don't mention the fact none of these other elite HWs are doing anything that compares to the guys Fedor is fighting. Mur's clearly a top 5 guy, but if one can complain about Fedor's opponents, they should complain about just about all the other HWs too. Lets say Fedor signed with the UFC instead of SF, would the fight with Brock have happened by now? I don't think so, he had a hole in his stomach. Would the fight with Carwin have taken place? Prolly not, he was hurt too. The only fight that coulda happened was with Cain, and he wasn't really in the conversation 6 months ago, he was atop 10 guy but wasn't regarded like he is this second (clearly an elite guy). Fedor fights legit top 10 guys every time out. There isn't a HW out there who can hold a candle to the caliber of fighters Fedor is going against. He goes against top 5 guys every time out and he finishes those fights. If people want to complain about Fedor's comp thats fine, just complain about every other HWs comp too while you're at it.

Yup Fedor fights more top competition than any HW ever currently in the UFC or of all time.

I don't care a lick if Fedor is not fighting in the UFC, and I recognize that he will go down as the greatest ever. BUt at least compete on a regular basis in Strikeforce [Strikeforce has got three or even four HWs I would love to watch Fedor fight, of course I'm not sure if Overeem is a strikeforce fighter anymore]. And his status as CURRENT #1 HW is in jeopardy as long as he's not competing, and with the emergence of the UFC's active, and talented roster, which is trashing the guys that cemented Fedor's legacy, but that doesn't count anymore for some reason.

Hopefully, this is just a restructuring of the timeline like an earlier poster suggested and not another power grab for M-1. You all do see that M-1 is just trying to create a brand by piggy-backing the efforts of others, right? These years of negotiating have been about that and not getting Fedor in the cage to compete against the best around. Does he have that right? Yes. Do I have the right to call him as money-hungry as the UFC? Yes.

...this one from Yahoo News:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=ArRHK0lha8rIhBxJgpXHiEs5nYcB?slug=dm-fedor031010&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Wolfgangsta wrote:

BBC the reason people think you are hating on his ability as a fighter stems from the fact you also say shit like "fedor is a big chicken ducking ufc fighters", "everything is Fedor's fault, not the UFC's" and "that whole pile of top 10 wins he has is actually proof he only fights hand picked bums", so an obvious assumption is made on the fact that one who thinks this must clearly be a blind Fedor hater.

Wolf I NEVER said that. Stop misleading people. Why do you do that? I said his lies make him look like he is ducking people. Not he is a chicken and he is ducking people. I didn't say he had hand picked bums either. I said Werdum is not worthy and SF has nothing to offer Fedor. That is the truth.