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oggy420
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PostSubject: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 2:58 pm

Is Global Warming really an accurate term when we are breaking records for cold weather too? Very informational video i thought i would pass on for some healthy discussion on Climate change.

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oggy420
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 3:01 pm

this is also informitive if our weakening magnetosphere is news to you
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cheekynffc
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 3:06 pm

i've always wondered how come if global warming was such a problem, why are we getting shorter summers and colder winters here in the uk.

the gulf stream is a pain in the arse.
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oggy420
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 3:09 pm

UK isn't the only place experiencing record breaking cold either. They say Alaska is heading for an ice age...
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cheekynffc
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 3:16 pm

it wasn't as cold as predicted this year but we did get a large amount of rain and more floods than you usually expect.

i agree though, the climate seems to be getting more extreme in lots of places around the world.
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 3:51 pm

Global warming always predicted changing climates and weather extremes.

It was never a matter of a planet warming equally.

Now I don't really see the correlation between the video and the topic. And I wonder if u agree with the video's suggestion that gov't(presumeably on a global level) should be implementing protections because of the weakening magnetosphere.
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oggy420
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 4:17 pm

captain organic wrote:
Global warming always predicted changing climates and weather extremes.

It was never a matter of a planet warming equally.

Now I don't really see the correlation between the video and the topic. And I wonder if u agree with the video's suggestion that gov't(presumeably on a global level) should be implementing protections because of the weakening magnetosphere.


Thats not true. Global Warming has always been paired with showing images of ice shelfs breaking off and a polar bear looking sad (and Al Gore lol). I dont understand how you don't see the correlation. The video is showing that we are experiencing climate extremes, not just warming. The term warming is pretty damn specific, as in the whole planet must be warming. Now we know this isn't true. We are breaking records for cold in many areas. Look at the winter China is having right now. Please show me where the experts for global warming stated that we would also experience record cold in many places and record ice in Antartica?

Also, the term Global Warming advocates that humans are soley responsible for the changes through co2 emissions. I think this video clearly explains that 1) it's hard to believe that co2 is the lone factor in climate change since we are at a 600 million year low right now
2) Methane, water vapor, space weather, and our weakening magnetosphere are possible contributing factors yet are mostly ignored by the "experts" when considering the causes of climate change

As for our weakening magnetosphere, it's hard to be sure what exactly is causing this right now. There just isn't enough resources being spent on this to tell us anyting other than that it is getting weaker and that a possible shift of the poles may be in the future.

Also, i don't really agree that the video maker is suggesting that government should get involved, rather stating that they already are taking measures (chemtrails and/or HAARP). Personally i think playing god is a dangerous thing, however we cant ignore the possibility of the big one. The solar flare powerful enough to completely penetrate the magnetosphere and fry the power grid. I certainly think the Fedreal Gov sould heavily invest in research to combat these issues as well further understanding space weather.

Also the video indicates that these changes are not confined to just our planet, rather our entire solar system. It's hard to believe that humans are responsible for similar climate extremes throughout our solar system, don't you think.

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Ludo
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 6:36 pm

http://news.discovery.com/earth/cold-winter-snow-weather-global-warming-101222.html

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/02/28/433834/warming-arctic-fuels-cold-surges-snowy-winters-another-study-finds/?mobile=nc

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/weather-climate-cold-snap-global-warming/story?id=9505043

Warming melts ice, ice melting in the arctic raises sea levels, raised sea levels create chaotic weather patterns, it can still be cold in places while the whole of something heats up. Think about the last time you ate a tv dinner and didn't quite microwave it enough. The outer edges are very hot, but the middle of it is still very cold. Same basic principle.

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Farmer1906
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 6:43 pm

Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 6:48 pm

I'll have to dig through my college notes, but we discussed the issue befor Al Gore hopped on board, and climate change and extreme weather were always part of the deal.

And pretty sure Inconveniant truth dealt with the possibility of global warming causing an ice age in Europe. As did Day After Tomorrow(terrible movie).

Measurements of temperature are still showing a warming trend. Despite local weather patterns showing cooling trends.

Could there be other factors? Sure.

But if we acknowledge that CO2 is a green house gas. And we then acknowledge that we are pouring that gas into the atmosphere at a much higher rate then would happen "naturally" then why wouldn't we expect a rise in temperature? Because of the existence of other greenhouse gasses? I don't see the logic.
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 6:49 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.
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Farmer1906
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 6:51 pm

captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.

Ludo's analogy is terrible.
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Ludo
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 7:27 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.

Ludo's analogy is terrible.

I was talking about the overall state of something being warm while part(s) can still be cold. There is no analogy, at least not that I know of, for weather trends being effected by melting icecaps and a raised sea level.

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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 8:03 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.

Ludo's analogy is terrible.

whats terrible about it?
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oggy420
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 8:15 pm

captain organic wrote:
I'll have to dig through my college notes, but we discussed the issue befor Al Gore hopped on board, and climate change and extreme weather were always part of the deal.

And pretty sure Inconveniant truth dealt with the possibility of global warming causing an ice age in Europe. As did Day After Tomorrow(terrible movie).

Measurements of temperature are still showing a warming trend. Despite local weather patterns showing cooling trends.

Could there be other factors? Sure.

But if we acknowledge that CO2 is a green house gas. And we then acknowledge that we are pouring that gas into the atmosphere at a much higher rate then would happen "naturally" then why wouldn't we expect a rise in temperature? Because of the existence of other greenhouse gasses? I don't see the logic.

Of course CO2 is a greenhouse gas. But why aren't methane and water vapor and other natural producers of CO2 being considered by the "experts". The argument here isn't whether humans are polluting the atomsphere. We are. Who knows what effect nuclear plants failures and all the nuclear testing of the 40's and 50's had either. All im saying is that this isn't an open and shut case as far as CO2 emissions by humans causing global warming. Im just trying to show that there are plenty of things to be considered in this evolving science.
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Farmer1906
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 8:39 pm

captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.

Ludo's analogy is terrible.

whats terrible about it?

Is your food getting colder while in the microwave?
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 8:44 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
Nots not the same at all besides 2 different places being different temps.

No idea what is trying to be said here.

Ludo's analogy is terrible.

whats terrible about it?

Is your food getting colder while in the microwave?

Is the earth getting colder?

It is not a perfect analogy in that parts of the hamburger are not getting colder. But just in terms of showing how an overall rise intemps does not result in cooked burger, I think it makes the point pretty well.
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Farmer1906
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 9:17 pm

oggy420 wrote:
We are breaking records for cold in many areas. Look at the winter China is having right now. Please show me where the experts for global warming stated that we would also experience record cold in many places and record ice in Antartica?


Oggy is making the point that the earth is warning and cooler in different places.
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 9:59 pm

And that has been part of the global warming predictions for a long time.
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Farmer1906
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 10:28 pm

captain organic wrote:
And that has been part of the global warming predictions for a long time.

OK. And that is why Ludo's analogy was wrong. That was the only point I was trying to make an it took you like 7 posts to understand.
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 10:36 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
And that has been part of the global warming predictions for a long time.

OK. And that is why Ludo's analogy was wrong. That was the only point I was trying to make an it took you like 7 posts to understand.

how is it wrong, exactly? If anything it helps bridge the gap in understanding that while you can heat something as a whole, some areas will be warmer while others remain cold.

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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 11:23 pm

Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
And that has been part of the global warming predictions for a long time.

OK. And that is why Ludo's analogy was wrong. That was the only point I was trying to make an it took you like 7 posts to understand.

Actually, as I said a couple posts back, the analogy works, though it is not perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 11:25 pm

Ludo wrote:
Farmer1906 wrote:
captain organic wrote:
And that has been part of the global warming predictions for a long time.

OK. And that is why Ludo's analogy was wrong. That was the only point I was trying to make an it took you like 7 posts to understand.

how is it wrong, exactly? If anything it helps bridge the gap in understanding that while you can heat something as a whole, some areas will be warmer while others remain cold.

But oggy stated the earth is getting colder in some places.
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captain organic
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptySun Jan 06, 2013 11:29 pm

Ludo wrote:


Warming melts ice, ice melting in the arctic raises sea levels, raised sea levels create chaotic weather patterns, it can still be cold in places while the whole of something heats up. Think about the last time you ate a tv dinner and didn't quite microwave it enough. The outer edges are very hot, but the middle of it is still very cold. Same basic principle.

When paired with the proceeding explanation, the analogy works well.
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oggy420
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PostSubject: Re: Global Warming or Climate Extremes?   Global Warming or Climate Extremes? EmptyMon Jan 07, 2013 11:03 am

im not sure it is a good analogy because whats going on is much more complex than heating while other places stay cold. For the past 2 years China, India, many places in Europe, have been experincing record breaking cold temps.

When you put something in the microwave no part of what you are heating is going to get colder than when you put it in.
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