Sergei Kharitonov vs Tony Lopez booked for United Glory MMA May 26

Wolfgangsta wrote:

HD got caught in a choke in like 7 seconds, in 2009. He was still a pro-kick boxer in 2008. You're not someone known for your brains but even you're smart enough to see that fighters can improve submission defense.

And HD might lose to Bobby Lashly. So could Lavar Johnson. So could Sergei. So could Tony Lopez. Big wrestlers can win fights. The only loss he ever had was against Grave Digger in a fight he was dominating in before he gassed out. He's been working with Josh Barnett and is improving. He just won Shark Fights HW title you know.

I think you missed the point. The fighters currently in HD's league are not in Zuffa. HD is not employed by Zuffa because of his talents in the cage. Frankly Lopez is more deserving of a Zuffa contract then HD. Your boy has not improved as much as you would like to believe he has. No one should be shocked if Tony Lopez were to defeat Pat Barry.

He is only in the UFC due to his talents in the cage. The motherfucker is a very talented striker, but raw in the wrestling and submission defense. He's right where he should be, fighting who he should be, with a record you'd expect any kickboxer to have who switched to MMA that recently to have. He's only gonna get better.

An argument about the guys he beat no longer being in the UFC shouldn't be used to devalue him to the point he no longer deserves to be in the UFC. I could understand bringing that up if people were saying HD was a top ten HW or something. But to say he is trash and doesn't belong is just false. He took his first MMA fight in May 2008, and his first UFC fight in Dec 2008.

If you can't even acknowledge that Pat Barry is only currently employed by Zuffa because of his out of the ring personality. That says it all right there. You have no perspective on HD, you are just a fanboy.

OU wrote:

If you can't even acknowledge that Pat Barry is only currently employed by Zuffa because of his out of the ring personality. That says it all right there. You have no perspective on HD, you are just a fanboy.

No dude. He he in the UFC because of the fact he either knocks out motherfuckers or wins FOTN when he wins, and half of his losses were incredibly awesome wars against Crocop and Kongo. His personality adds to his fanbase for sure, it is one of the main reasons I am a fan, but his in-cage performances have been mostly awesome.

The UFC likes guys that war. Dana after the Struve fight :

"We like guys like that. Guys who are exciting and come out to fight. I don't know. Pat is a guy that we do like. He's one of the guys who always brings it.... I like the Arturo Gatti-type fighters. Guys who always bring it. And that's what this is about. When you're a fight fan you tune in to see fights. And I like guys who do it."

I'm a fight fan, and Pat Barry is a fighter I know for a fact will bring it win or lose.

And if Pat Barry shouldn't be in Zuffa, neither should Lavar Johnson, who was on a two fight losing streak before beating a guy Barry also beat.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

And if Pat Barry shouldn't be in Zuffa, neither should Lavar Johnson, who was on a two fight losing streak before beating a guy Barry also beat.

I think everyone would have understood if Big Johnson didn't make the Zuffa cut. You can't possibly believe this shit about HD. This dude could have gotten the pink slip a couple times now and no one would have questioned it.

Cutting someone like Berry isn't real good business. He either wins or loses spectacularly and he fights in the most shallow, boring division in the sport. He has always been free card gold because you know what you're going to get. He's athletic enough to hopefully make gains in the TDD department which is still big time lacking

I predicted he would not be cut after his last two losses when others said he would be. If he were cut, it wouldn't be particularly anomalous, but him not being cut for the reasons I predicted were exactly in line with the statements made by White regarding Barry and if he should be cut. Exciting fighters deserve to be in the UFC more than boring ass fighters. This is why John Madsen isn't in the UFC anymore. Why Antonio Mckee isn't in the UFC anymore. And why nobody is asking WHEN ARE YOU GONNA SIGN BEN ASKREN despite him winning his last Bellator title fight while Alvarez lost his last title fight.

Anyway, the only time it would have been typical for him to be cut was his last loss, marking his second in a row. It is unusual when guys are cut after just one loss and Barry only had one two fight losing streak. But again, the first fight in the streak was against Kongo and we all remember how NUTS that was.

I don't understand what you're even arguing here. Are you saying the UFC's bottom third of the HW division should all just be cut because they don't really belong in the UFC despite the fucking fact they are in fact in the fucking UFC?

LOL

What is wrong with anything I just said? I got your faggot ass dead to fucking rights here. You're personally invested now because I'm mean to you, so you'll dig your heels in even deeper. Keep it up. do it for the lulz.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

What is wrong with anything I just said? I got your faggot ass dead to fucking rights here. You're personally invested now because I'm mean to you, so you'll dig your heels in even deeper. Keep it up. do it for the lulz.

Mean to me? Come on man, you think waayy too highly of yourself. It's been established what kind of fan you are. You are about trend and flash. I'm about skill and substance. I watch MMA. You read UFC. Different strokes. Makes it nearly impossible to relate to you on any level when it comes to this sport.

How about not moving the goal posts and talk about what was wrong with what I just said? Can't do that?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

How about not moving the goal posts and talk about what was wrong with what I just said? Can't do that?

I'm sorry but I can't comprehend that you are serious in your thought process. If you think I haven't answered your questions, you aren't reading. But you seem like the kind of person that just waits for him his time to talk and ignoring all other conversation. You think guys like Hardy and HD are in the UFC do to skill and in ring performance. I know it's because the bosses like them and the words they say in the media. You think HD can make "noise" in the UFC because you are a fanboy. I say he is more on the level of Lopez and Lashely at the moment, well because I have seen them all fight. Again hard to have a conversation with someone with your kind of views on the sport.

Lopez, Lashley and HD are all three very different fighters. They're only basally comparable in that they are not elite. Lashley is a huge wrestler who recently entered MMA, with huge takedown ability, but a limited gas tank. He has shown that he is improving and history has shown big wrestlers can do well in the HW division. However his primary flaw continues to be a shitty gas tank. If not for that, he'd be in the UFC right now. HD is a short and stocky pro kickboxer who has shown good standup in the UFC, and like all green stand-up fighters has shown the need for improvement in his submission game. He has begun to demonstrate that by surviving sub attempts by defending them properly, getting back to his feet, and winning by KO. I don't think he could have done that earlier in his career. Lopez on the otherhand is a weathered journeyman who wins and loses against no-names. He has good journeyman skills but is not elite at any area, unlike the other two, and is old and cannot get any better.

Of the three, Barry is the one who has the most upside.

Off topic, how do you do in fantasy football usually?

If Barry was in any other division in the UFC would he even win two fights in a row? I tend to think his lack of grappling(which led to his being killed by zombie-Kongo) would see him to Steve Cantwell levels of shitty.

Ludo wrote:

If Barry was in any other division in the UFC would he even win two fights in a row? I tend to think his lack of grappling(which led to his being killed by zombie-Kongo) would see him to Steve Cantwell levels of shitty.

Steve Cantwell is a much more promising fighter then HD.

Cantwell was

Ludo wrote:

If Barry was in any other division in the UFC would he even win two fights in a row? I tend to think his lack of grappling(which led to his being killed by zombie-Kongo) would see him to Steve Cantwell levels of shitty.

No, but if we were in any other division he wouldn't have been signed 3 fights into an MMA career either, would he?

This aint the WW division.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ludo wrote:

If Barry was in any other division in the UFC would he even win two fights in a row? I tend to think his lack of grappling(which led to his being killed by zombie-Kongo) would see him to Steve Cantwell levels of shitty.

No, but if we were in any other division he wouldn't have been signed 3 fights into an MMA career either, would he?

This aint the WW division.

You mean like how Maynard entered TUF and got signed with only 3 pro fights? Or how your boy Brandon Vera only had four fights prior to being signed. What about Johny Hendricks having only three fights before being signed under Zuffa, and two more before being moved to the UFC? It's not unheard of for fighters to be signed with a handful of fights or less.

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ludo wrote:

If Barry was in any other division in the UFC would he even win two fights in a row? I tend to think his lack of grappling(which led to his being killed by zombie-Kongo) would see him to Steve Cantwell levels of shitty.

No, but if we were in any other division he wouldn't have been signed 3 fights into an MMA career either, would he?

This aint the WW division.

You mean like how Maynard entered TUF and got signed with only 3 pro fights? Or how your boy Brandon Vera only had four fights prior to being signed. What about Johny Hendricks having only three fights before being signed under Zuffa, and two more before being moved to the UFC? It's not unheard of for fighters to be signed with a handful of fights or less.

I should have been more detailed with that statement I guess. Barry had won his first UFC bout like 8 months after his MMA debut. Barry was a pure kickboxer with WCL and K-1 experience and no ground experience.

Vera was signed in a different era. Also, he had a well rounded martial arts background with plenty of wrestling and BJJ prior to his MMA days if I recall correctly, and had his debut in like 2002 and didn't sign with the UFC until 2005. While he is seen as a MT based striker, he didn't actually get serious with kickboxing until after he already began fighting. Thus his years of cross-training had already produced an exceptionally well rounded fighter for a guy with only four fights. The situations are not really comparable.

Maynard came through TUF and was a wrestler. I doubt he would have got into the UFC if not for TUF off just three fights. Johny Hendricks is also a wrestler and came through the WEC. I doubt he would have got into the UFC if not for the WEC off just three fights. And there was two years between his MMA debut and his WEC debut, not a few months.

Those guys are different. Barry was a kickboxer. He took his last kickboxing fight 5 months before his UFC debut. As we all know, wrestlers transition much easier, and much quicker. I can't really think of another situation like Barry where they jumped at a striker that green and that early in his MMA career honestly. Kimbo Slice maybe lol.

The UFC likes his athleticism, and probably expected he would lose via submission a few times. As long as he is knocking dudes out every other fight, or going out on his damn shield in wars, he is doing what the UFC expected of him.

If Morecraft had sub'd him quick in the first round with one of those attempts, they'd have had to let him go probably, as it would show he isn't improving enough ground wise. But his escapes and scrambles after two different takedowns and sub attempts clearly show he is starting to evolve as a fighter.(though, they like Morecraft's potential and kept him around and his record is 1-3 so...never know) I was worried he would be a one dimensional easy to sub fighter forever, but he has proven otherwise. HD 666

It couldn't possibly be that Morecraft isn't particularly good at anything and each of those submission attempts were piss poor, right? I mean, when I see a guy going for a belly down armbar and he doesn't even try to put his hips into it or use his legs to control his opponents body it's just as credible as a proper attempt. Or when a guy goes for an arm triangle from the wrong side because he's already up against the cage, or when he pretty much goes for a one handed guillotine while being taken down these are signs that a fighter is improving his ground game more than fighting someone who's ground game isn't anything special. Totally obvious.

Morecraft clearly aint no submission wizard, but you're seriously not going to give Barry any credit at all for escaping those attempts and getting back to his feet? You don't think he can ever improve his submission defense? Why is that?

Barry deserves credit for not getting subbed. But how much? this much:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Morecraft clearly aint no submission wizard, but you're seriously not going to give Barry any credit at all for escaping those attempts and getting back to his feet? You don't think he can ever improve his submission defense? Why is that?

I didn't say he can't, I said he deserves less credit for escaping poorly applied and lazily attempted submissions from a guy who is slightly below average in every facet of the game than you're giving him. The fact is he has improved his grappling, but the improvement is so minimal it's astounding. He couldn't even win a grappling match in a local circuit meet, that's how little his grappling has improved in coming up on four years in the sport.

Ludo wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Morecraft clearly aint no submission wizard, but you're seriously not going to give Barry any credit at all for escaping those attempts and getting back to his feet? You don't think he can ever improve his submission defense? Why is that?

I didn't say he can't, I said he deserves less credit for escaping poorly applied and lazily attempted submissions from a guy who is slightly below average in every facet of the game than you're giving him. The fact is he has improved his grappling, but the improvement is so minimal it's astounding. He couldn't even win a grappling match in a local circuit meet, that's how little his grappling has improved in coming up on four years in the sport.

When/where was this grappling match? Link me to where ever you heard that if you can find it Ludo. I am pretty sure I remember Barry talking about how for a long while he did not have the best grappling training and sparring partners. Although every fighter who sucks at something says that.