Who will be favored in the rematch? Diaz-Condit

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Did I criticize a fight where a guy pumped a jab or where a guy turned his back and lierally ran? Good lawd!

The comparison is valid. What you call turned his back and ran, most people call wisely removing himself from the potential danger of that situation and resetting where he wanted to.

Your with the drunk dude in the bar who didn't even know there were fights that night. The people Dana and Lorenzo would do anything to appease before say, I don't know, dedicated hardcore combat sports fans.

I criticized the fight during and after. It was a letdown and since it is as disputed as it is, a rematch makes sense. The UFCs job is to please the fans. Condit fans should respect their boy for stepping up to finish this once and for all.

Get off your shit dick high horse. If i am that dude then so are names like Royce Gracie, Bas Rutten and dozens of other fighters who feel more strongly about it than I do. Who feel Dias won and Condit avoided the fight. Mma writer Jonathan Snowden must be too right?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I criticized the fight during and after. It was a letdown and since it is as disputed as it is, a rematch makes sense. The UFCs job is to please the fans. Condit fans should respect their boy for stepping up to finish this again.

FYP

Diaz got that main event earned it and a fight with GSP, like Condit also. Your satisfaction cannot take away from the fact Condit beat him, uncontroversially and unanimously. They fought, close sure, in-concise, no. Condit losses no respect for fighting Diaz or anyone else before GSP that comes along, like he stated he would. Nor for his superior performance in the cage Saturday night. Diaz doesn't lose any respect for trying to do his thing and falling short. He of course does for acting like a total bitch, which short of me think his corner coaxed him into thinking he was incorrectly running away with the fight, has been my only critical word of him. Rematches have been tossed around without great frequency, but when they are it is for damn good reason; Shogun Machida, wrong decision, Penn Edgar absolute indecisiveness, Shogun Hendo so close and so great, there are great reasons for good rematches, Condit Diaz lacks that.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Get off your shit dick high horse. If i am that dude then so are names like Royce Gracie, Bas Rutten and dozens of other fighters who feel more strongly about it than I do. Who feel Dias won and Condit avoided the fight. Mma writer Jonathan Snowden must be too right?

When they are in this conversation, I'll let them know how they come off. When Gracie or Bas(who was impressed with Condits victory btw) say if a guy doesn't excite winning shouldn't matter and they should a precedent should be set in their punishment I'll call them complete morons as well.

http://mobile.bloodyelbow.com/2012/2/8/2785033/post-ufc-143-roundtable-did-carlos-condit-run-his-way-to-victory

A more sane version of this debate happens here.

How can you say he won uncontroversially when the entire MMA community is virtually split on the subject? I was in a live chat during the fight, and the consensus was that it was split going into the fifth round, Diaz having taken the first two and Condit taking the third and fourth. To say Condit beat Diaz uncontroversially is to say Frankie Edgar won the first BJ Penn fight the same way, or that Mighty Mouse did the same to Miguel Torres.

What this comes down to is a difference in opinion as to what "counts" for more between a leg kick or a punch. Personally I felt Diaz was landing the better shots through the first two rounds, he also controlled things through the first half of the third round until Condit took over. Round four was Condits best round of the fight, the fifth round was more Nick than anything. He got Condit cornered, he beat him up, got the takedown, got close to finishing with the choke and even when Condit got out of the armbar Nick got the reversal in the end.

Controversy would of been Diaz winning. Plain and simple. This is nothing like the Penn Edgar fight or Johnson Torres fight because it was not as close and the wrong guy didn't win respectively. And the entire MMA Community in not split up on this. I was with nothing but hardcore Diaz nuthuggers who know whats up and they all knew what was coming and who should of won, they didn't have the internet pitch fork and torches Johnny Chochraning up some witchcraft about kaleb starnes and punching power and point fighting and avoiding finishes. I don't think Diaz was winning a minute of that fight after a couple of minutes in to the second round when Condit hit him and backed him up except for only having having his back for the final 90 of 100 seconds of the fight itself. When the judges pick the correct winner there is no controversy, when they don't there is.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Controversy would of been Diaz winning. Plain and simple. This is nothing like the Penn Edgar fight or Johnson Torres fight because it was not as close and the wrong guy didn't win respectively. And the entire MMA Community in not split up on this. I was with nothing but hardcore Diaz nuthuggers who know whats up and they all knew what was coming and who should of won, they didn't have the internet pitch fork and torches Johnny Chochraning up some witchcraft about kaleb starnes and punching power and point fighting and avoiding finishes. I don't think Diaz was winning a minute of that fight after a couple of minutes in to the second round when Condit hit him and backed him up except for only having having his back for the final 90 of 100 seconds of the fight itself. When the judges pick the correct winner there is no controversy, when they don't there is.

This is everything like the Penn/Edgar fight. One guy coming forward while the other guy is wading in and out and landing a kick here, a jab there. If you can land 6 leg kicks and then get your head popped back like a pez dispenser by a punch who got the better of things? Just because he didn't play into Diaz' game and get overwhelmed against the cage doesn't mean he won the fight. Avoiding the action is what it is.

Penn Edgar was close, much more so than this fight, hence that reaction compared to this, which is largely illegitimate. Not much more can be said about it. Condit dictated what action took place. Diaz tried to and couldn't. Some might call that running but what it is is being better, there is no rule that says a guy has to plant his feet and not move to a more advantageous position, being away from where your opponent has proven most dangerous. What kind of idiot is gonna do anything other than that? Just because he didn't play into Diaz' game and get overwhelmed against the cage doesn't mean he won the fight, there are a lot more reasons, mainly being that Condit made Diaz less effective than he has ever looked on the feet in years by taking away what has seen him succeed against so many others while punching, kicking, kneeing and elbowing him more effectively for 5 rounds. But this is already known of course, hence the weak fickle reaction to all the 'the hype lied to me' crowd.

Again, just because he didn't get himself cornered doesn't mean he won by default. The only thing he was dictating was how long the fight would last and he still almost got finished. I'm not saying Condit wasn't fighting smart. I'm saying he was fighting not to lose instead of fighting to win. Nobody has to "johnny cochran" up the notion that he was on his bike for five rounds because he was in fact on his bike for five rounds. He came forward for maybe two minutes total in the span of five rounds and thats being generous.

The only elbows Carlos landed were spinning back elbows. He landed only about three of the 14 or so he threw. Why? Because he deliberately threw one in when he was backing up and looking for Diaz to chase him.

Give up Ludo, GDP is basically finger in ear lalalalalalalala status at this point. Maybe if the UFV had a loll on the front page of their site showing a majority of Americans believing Diaz won and worldwide the population exactly divided or something...oh wait.

Like I said, few fights are as hotly contested as this one is by fans. All the more reason for a rematch.

What we should be talkung about in this thread is how GDP constantly confuses his subjective opinion with reality. "it wasn't a close fight to me therefore it isn't seen as a close fight" when literally 50% of voters at UFC.com picked one or the other. "this fight isnt controversial to me thus isnt controvercial". Never mind the fact were still dabating here and everywhere over the controversy.

Gdp...youre still allowed to have opinions without pretending no one disagrees my man...just so you know. So knock this weird shit off please, thx.

Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Jens Pulver, Mayhem, Pat Miletich, Bas, Ronda Rousey, Royce Gracie and others have come forward saying Diaz won. This is a controversial fight. Do it again.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Anderson Silva, Chuck Liddell, Jens Pulver, Mayhem, Pat Miletich, Bas, Ronda Rousey, Royce Gracie and others have come forward saying Diaz won. This is a controversial fight. Do it again.

Any links?

Ya, im on a phone so it isnt as easy to link or id already have some. Bunches more than who I said too.

Hold ups..

Ludo wrote:

and he still almost got finished.

no he didnt. Just because you get someones back doesn't mean "you almost finish" them.

Diaz wasn't ever going to be able to finish that fight.. and while trying to, he took more damage

That BE article I linked has this same argument weve had here word for word four times over between a bunch of different people to the point its surreal in the comments. This is the most heated fight debate ive ever seen.

The only thing that tweets that Wolf posted prove is that even fighters have no clue what they're talking about sometimes. So much for "octagon control"? What part of walking forward and never cutting off the cage and completely letting your opponent dictate where the fight takes place including staying off the cage the whole fight which is exactly where you wanted him, octagon control?

GolbeZ wrote:

Ludo wrote:

and he still almost got finished.

no he didnt. Just because you get someones back doesn't mean "you almost finish" them.

Diaz wasn't ever going to be able to finish that fight.. and while trying to, he took more damage

I must have been dreaming when I saw him working an arm under the chin before Condit bucked against the cage. My mistake.

The octagon control question is hiiiighly subjective. I scored it for Condit. But I feel their point enough to love the rematch. This article is really good;

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/jeff_wagenheim/02/07/condit.reaction/

Is this even going to go down, rumors are flying all over that the fight is off.