Best Japanese fighter ever?

what did Jackson weigh in at during that time period?

I tend to think Jackson at that age, busts prime Okami up. Just looks like a bad matchup imo.

I give Okami 0.1% chance of subbing Page.

I'm no slouch pickin fights ya know, and saying 41% not 85%, but I don't remember the fight but Eastman beat Page back then.

Why does it have to be sub Capt.? You keep posting sub, it's simply beat, I'll trust my instincts on this one.

I think Sakuraba is his day could beat todays version of Okami. Obviously the other way around as well because Sakuraba has some really impressive wins in between some real WTF losses in his prime(and Okami is a great fighter and all) but Sakuraba had all the game. You werent going to rag doll a prime Sakuraba and he is a dangerous submission guy as we all know. His striking was not a joke or anything. That would actually be a very good fight. I think people assume Okami would smash because Sakuraba is considered an old school guy(like Ken and Severn old school) and Okami is a modern mixed martial artist but i see Sakuraba in the same light as i see Frank Shamrock. They just got old and beat up...their style and skill set can successfully translate into todays game inside younger bodies.

Talking 21 year old Page vs THIS Okami but agree, either guy could win that one.

LA wrote:

Why does it have to be sub Capt.? You keep posting sub, it's simply beat, I'll trust my instincts on this one.

Cause Saku took adv of Jackson's inexperience in that area. And that is the theme here, Jackson' inexperience.


No way Okami outstrikes Jackson, he was never that green. So it's narrowed down to, Could the smaller Okami outwrestle a young brute force Jackson? I dunno, Jackson was always pretty strong in that area, green or not..

That's the basic logical reason for me continuing to point to the sub.

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

Why does it have to be sub Capt.? You keep posting sub, it's simply beat, I'll trust my instincts on this one.

Cause Saku took adv of Jackson's inexperience in that area. And that is the theme here, Jackson' inexperience.


No way Okami outstrikes Jackson, he was never that green. So it's narrowed down to, Could the smaller Okami outwrestle a young brute force Jackson? I dunno, Jackson was always pretty strong in that area, green or not..

That's the basic logical reason for me continuing to point to the sub.

He could decision him? Like Eastman did...The theme is that it was a young Page but he doesn't simply have to be subbed to lose, come on now. We're also really selling Okami short here, it's not like it's 21 year old Okami.

King's Saku only had one real WTF? loss in his career.

The large majority of his losses in his prime were either juiced up wandy or hwy legend.

LA wrote:

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

Why does it have to be sub Capt.? You keep posting sub, it's simply beat, I'll trust my instincts on this one.

Cause Saku took adv of Jackson's inexperience in that area. And that is the theme here, Jackson' inexperience.


No way Okami outstrikes Jackson, he was never that green. So it's narrowed down to, Could the smaller Okami outwrestle a young brute force Jackson? I dunno, Jackson was always pretty strong in that area, green or not..

That's the basic logical reason for me continuing to point to the sub.

He could decision him? Like Eastman did...The theme is that it was a young Page but he doesn't simply have to be subbed to lose, come on now. We're also really selling Okami short here, it's not like it's 21 year old Okami.

I never said he had to sub him.

I said his only chance would be to outwrestle him(yes that prob means by decision), but I don't think he could.

Yeah, i'm out of the loop of the last 7 pages or so...i was responding to bobbitt saying Okami would beat Sakuraba somewhere on page 4 or 5 and i'm guessing thats what sparked the eventual Current day Yushin Okami to 2001 Rampage Jackson debate.

I would pick modern day Okami over green as grass Rampage. Jackson had never fought anybody...Rampage was brought in as pretty much a sure W for Sakuraba. He had fought nothing but club fighters...even Eastman was a nobody prospect back when he fought Rampage.

Okami in his current form, with all the experience and all vs. an inexperienced Rampage who never fought anybody who is likely still carrying on a career today other than Marvin Eastman and Mike Pyle? Okami. Time makes a huge difference...on one of my sports channels they were showing an old M-1 card where Amar Soluev made Okami look like a chump. Imagine that guy against modern day anybody he has beaten in the past 2-3 years.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Yeah, i'm out of the loop of the last 7 pages or so...i was responding to bobbitt saying Okami would beat Sakuraba somewhere on page 4 or 5 and i'm guessing thats what sparked the eventual Current day Yushin Okami to 2001 Rampage Jackson debate.

I would pick modern day Okami over green as grass Rampage. Jackson had never fought anybody...Rampage was brought in as pretty much a sure W for Sakuraba. He had fought nothing but club fighters...even Eastman was a nobody prospect back when he fought Rampage.

Okami in his current form, with all the experience and all vs. an inexperienced Rampage who never fought anybody who is likely still carrying on a career today other than Marvin Eastman and Mike Pyle? Okami. Time makes a huge difference...on one of my sports channels they were showing an old M-1 card where Amar Soluev made Okami look like a chump. Imagine that guy against modern day anybody he has beaten in the past 2-3 years.

Agree with all of this, what I'm saying

The thing that gets me about this statement by White is tihs time last year he himself said Saku was the best fighter to come out of Japan, surely a couple of wins couldn't have changed his stance? and on top of that he takes a clear jab at "padded records" of Japanese fighters

Way to renew the arguement Killer Sakuraba FTW!!

MMAEYES wrote:

Way to renew the arguement Killer Sakuraba FTW!!

i just wanted to get my 2 cents in since i was swamped at work and couldn't contribute anything but nonsense lol

you know how the trucking business is...

killerofchicken wrote:

MMAEYES wrote:

Way to renew the arguement Killer Sakuraba FTW!!

i just wanted to get my 2 cents in since i was swamped at work and couldn't contribute anything but nonsense lol

you know how the trucking business is...

I sure the hell do lol

MMAEYES wrote:

killerofchicken wrote:

MMAEYES wrote:

Way to renew the arguement Killer Sakuraba FTW!!

i just wanted to get my 2 cents in since i was swamped at work and couldn't contribute anything but nonsense lol

you know how the trucking business is...

I sure the hell do lol

you gotta have nerves of steel.... AND I DONT!

KingsOwn19 wrote:

I think Sakuraba is his day could beat todays version of Okami. Obviously the other way around as well because Sakuraba has some really impressive wins in between some real WTF losses in his prime(and Okami is a great fighter and all) but Sakuraba had all the game. You werent going to rag doll a prime Sakuraba and he is a dangerous submission guy as we all know. His striking was not a joke or anything. That would actually be a very good fight. I think people assume Okami would smash because Sakuraba is considered an old school guy(like Ken and Severn old school) and Okami is a modern mixed martial artist but i see Sakuraba in the same light as i see Frank Shamrock. They just got old and beat up...their style and skill set can successfully translate into todays game inside younger bodies.

I think its a close fight, just don't see many weakness of Okami for Sak to take advantage of. Don't like that matchup for him

captain organic wrote:

LA wrote:

Why does it have to be sub Capt.? You keep posting sub, it's simply beat, I'll trust my instincts on this one.

Cause Saku took adv of Jackson's inexperience in that area. And that is the theme here, Jackson' inexperience.


No way Okami outstrikes Jackson, he was never that green. So it's narrowed down to, Could the smaller Okami outwrestle a young brute force Jackson? I dunno, Jackson was always pretty strong in that area, green or not..

That's the basic logical reason for me continuing to point to the sub.

Sak took advantage of Rampage coming forward like a wildman just trying to pick him up and slam him. You can only do that so many times before you just run out of gas. That fight was like a jr version of Sapp-Nog. Okami has really good wrestling too, Rampage was just so inexperienced. His game grew exponentially over that next 2 years to where he was actually good, especially his boxing which I'm not sure we have evidence of being anything special at the time of the Saku fight

bobbitt15 wrote:

KingsOwn19 wrote:

I think Sakuraba is his day could beat todays version of Okami. Obviously the other way around as well because Sakuraba has some really impressive wins in between some real WTF losses in his prime(and Okami is a great fighter and all) but Sakuraba had all the game. You werent going to rag doll a prime Sakuraba and he is a dangerous submission guy as we all know. His striking was not a joke or anything. That would actually be a very good fight. I think people assume Okami would smash because Sakuraba is considered an old school guy(like Ken and Severn old school) and Okami is a modern mixed martial artist but i see Sakuraba in the same light as i see Frank Shamrock. They just got old and beat up...their style and skill set can successfully translate into todays game inside younger bodies.

I think its a close fight, just don't see many weakness of Okami for Sak to take advantage of. Don't like that matchup for him

That is exactly how I would see that fight going down. Yushin doesn't make mistakes and his strength would allow him to control the clinch. Probably has better stand-up too. Okami has an underrated jab. Love Sak, but Okami is better.

As for Okami fighting 21-year old Rampage, Vegas would bet on Okami. A seasoned Okami would hold every advantage, and remember Matt Lindland had no problem slamming a prime Rampage so Okami could at the least grapple with the guy at 21. I'm not sure why people are coming to the defense of that Rampage -- he basically treated MMA like pro wrestling. And yes he beat CHuck two years later, but look at how many times he fought between Sak and Chuck [probably ten or so]. The guy developed at breakneck speed in the ring.

Personally on Japanese GOAT talk, I have Aoki over Okami but Sakuraba will be the ATGOAT for a while.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Personally on Japanese GOAT talk, I have Aoki over Okami but Sakuraba will be the ATGOAT for a while.

Personally I have it the same. Saku, Aoki followed by Okami. But like mentioned in this thread, Okami could retire on top. But you can't write off Aoki, he is only 28 years old.

Aoki needs A LOT of improvement IMO. he's one of the best grapplers in the WORLD not just Japan though

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsu_Hioki

Mr hatsu hioki should be in the convo as well fellas

especially if he comes and takes the tittle away, which im hoping for!

Aoki has an impressive record, but Gil showed the playbook on how to beat him, and there are a dozen guys in the UFC that have a similar skill-set.