Question bout Brock

Brock's rise to #1 at HWY was built on the belief that because of his size and wrestling he would beat anyone. It was not built on resume. Through his first 5 fights he was able to bully smaller opponents, and in 4 of those fights completely out wrestle guys with little wrestling ability. So the "size and wrestling makes him #1" argument seemed to hold water. Though it should be noted that a much smaller, and older wrestler was able nullify one of Brock's major advantage.

Then he fought Carwin, who was the first to expose a major chink in Brocks armor, and that is a lack of toughness. Dude does not take well to getting hit. Now Brock was able to survive, but not due to his ability to take punishment, he was able to survive due to fighting a guy who was only ready to go 3 minutes. In a 5 rnd fight the guy gassed out in 3 minutes. In retrospect it was a pretty pathetic performance on both guys part, but at the time, I gave Brock the benefit of the doubt.

But after Cain came in and did the exact same thing that Carwin was able to do, ie nulify the wrestling and land shots on Brocks dome which cause him to turtle and run, it became obvious that Brock is not this big time unbeatable force that we thought he was when he was ranked #1 after 5 fights. He breezed to the top due to an imagined fighting ability, not his true proven ability, now that it has been proven that the fighting ability that we imagined was not at all real, it now becomes ridiculous that he was ever #1. It's 10x more ridiculous that people still see him as the #2 hwy in the world. What is it based on?

So while im not a Brock fan, I don't believe my anti Brock arguments are "hate" based It's the Brock hype, that Im truly arguing against.

I'd like to remind everyone that "wolfOU" was never fooled by this.

freakzilla316ftw wrote:

Brock out weighs Fedor by 40 pounds not 60. Even if Brock gets Fedor down which he probably wont Fedor would submit him anyway.

LA you have never given any fighter outside Strikeforce credit besides the overated Alvarez. You think Alvarez is great and that Fedor is overated. That's a joke.

i wonder how is this when fedors best submission to date over a top hw is over timmy. some might think brocks wrestling is a overated but are you saying timmys wrestling is on the level of brocks? i dont think fedor is overated by no means but at the same time if you think cain is #2 then thats a joke.

The loss to Werdum certainly makes you question his sub defense. Though I feel he was just over confident in his own defense ability.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Most people here, LA included, assumed Brock was this unbeatable monster who would beat Fedor and all this nonsense. Now people are a little more realistic. LA was right on the money when he said very few are sensible when it comes to Brock.


I had it right all along. His wrestling was overrated and the rest of his game is weak. His athleticism will not deliver him every time. I said that from the beginning. I still say it. My opinion on Lesnar has not changed.

would it be realistic to say a year ago fedor would make a rookie mistake and get finished in one minute by a guy not even in the top 5? in mma anything can happen and for that saying brock could beat fedor a year ago wasnt so unrealistic. after the carwin fight i really only saw 2 hws beating brock and cain was one of them, fedor was not the other one. after watching brock in his last fight i'd say maybe now fedor might be able to beat brock but its a 50/50 . just like brock is beatable i see about 2 people beating fedor for sure and brock having a 50/50 . as for the 2 people mentioned that could beat fedor, werdum is not one of them. its mma.

Cain and Fedor would beat Brock and Overeem and Carwin could beat Brock. Fedor has ko power in his punches and if he hits Brock then Brock would crumble.

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.

Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.

Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

+1

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.
Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

when was werdum a top 5 hw? also there have been way better submission than that one. it could of been seen from far away. even anderson sub over sonnen was more impressive after the beating sonne has laid on him.

as far as the clown goes. well that clown with a 5-2 record has only lost to champs or former champs and has wins over 3 top 5 hws in his very short career. like him or not he is a top hw and decides to only fight the top dogs.

throwdownfight1 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.
Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

when was werdum a top 5 hw? also there have been way better submission than that one. it could of been seen from far away. even anderson sub over sonnen was more impressive after the beating sonne has laid on him.

as far as the clown goes. well that clown with a 5-2 record has only lost to champs or former champs and has wins over 3 top 5 hws in his very short career. like him or not he is a top hw and decides to only fight the top dogs.

As far as top 5 hwy's go, Mir, a 45 yr old Randy, and the 3 minute man, are a weak bunch.

Werdum is the best submission HW in MMA history. His ADCC creds speak for themselves. Werdum was a top five HW before his Dos Santos loss, at least to some. Certainly Werdum would have beaten Randy and Mir.

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.
Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

when was werdum a top 5 hw? also there have been way better submission than that one. it could of been seen from far away. even anderson sub over sonnen was more impressive after the beating sonne has laid on him.

as far as the clown goes. well that clown with a 5-2 record has only lost to champs or former champs and has wins over 3 top 5 hws in his very short career. like him or not he is a top hw and decides to only fight the top dogs.

As far as top 5 hwy's go, Mir, a 45 yr old Randy, and the 3 minute man, are a weak bunch.

well if mir is a weak hw , what does that make nog (fedors best win to date). also in randys previous fight to brock he had just destroyed the guy that pretty much mentally raped cro cops (fedors 3rd best win to date) career in gonzaga so im guessing cro cop was a weak hw as well. to be honest besides a chump in barnett who needs roids in order to even compete, did cor cop ever beat another top 5 hw? or was he just koing second string guys the majority of his career.

Throwdown, either you're being purposely intellectually dishonest about CC and Nog in Pride vs how they were in the UFC, or you're a newb who has been duped. I'd advise the men to move on from this conversation.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Throwdown, either you're being purposely intellectually dishonest about CC and Nog in Pride vs how they were in the UFC, or you're a newb who has been duped. I'd advise the men to move on from this conversation.

not at all. i think your the one down playing their skill and legacy. if anything nog is still a top hw imo. there is a reason why he was favored over cain.

Even though he doesn't realize it and probably never really even watched Pride, throwdown does hit on something. Those fights Nog lost in the UFC probably wouldn't have been stopped in Pride.

throwdownfight1 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.
Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

when was werdum a top 5 hw? also there have been way better submission than that one. it could of been seen from far away. even anderson sub over sonnen was more impressive after the beating sonne has laid on him.

as far as the clown goes. well that clown with a 5-2 record has only lost to champs or former champs and has wins over 3 top 5 hws in his very short career. like him or not he is a top hw and decides to only fight the top dogs.

As far as top 5 hwy's go, Mir, a 45 yr old Randy, and the 3 minute man, are a weak bunch.

well if mir is a weak hw , what does that make nog (fedors best win to date). also in randys previous fight to brock he had just destroyed the guy that pretty much mentally raped cro cops (fedors 3rd best win to date) career in gonzaga so im guessing cro cop was a weak hw as well. to be honest besides a chump in barnett who needs roids in order to even compete, did cor cop ever beat another top 5 hw? or was he just koing second string guys the majority of his career.

does the term "shot fighter" mean anything to you?

And speaking of roids, I know at least one, and have a strong suspicion of another of the UFC's "top" hwys who have used.

throwdownfight1 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Throwdown, either you're being purposely intellectually dishonest about CC and Nog in Pride vs how they were in the UFC, or you're a newb who has been duped. I'd advise the men to move on from this conversation.

not at all. i think your the one down playing their skill and legacy. if anything nog is still a top hw imo. there is a reason why he was favored over cain.

Wether nog has anything left in the tank or not, anyone who watched Mir vs Nog has to admit that Nog was just a tad under the weather in that fight.

Mir ballooned up to a mammoth totally legally I am sure. Lesnar, who was caught with HGH before HGH was "HGH", never did any illegal roids in the WWE, never, and I am sure Carwin's name got on that list by mistake.

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

captain organic wrote:

throwdownfight1 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

It wasn't a rookie mistake. It was a calculated error based on his surviving the guards of numerous other BJJ black belts. Werdum further laid some uber-high level game on Fedor. While Werdum may not have been top five at the time, he had been there before, and is the single best submission HW in MMA history.
Brock has never been a threat to Fedor and it insults the entire sport to say a 5-2 clown who wrestled ten years ago can use that skill and also size to defeat the greatest martial artists in the world.

when was werdum a top 5 hw? also there have been way better submission than that one. it could of been seen from far away. even anderson sub over sonnen was more impressive after the beating sonne has laid on him.

as far as the clown goes. well that clown with a 5-2 record has only lost to champs or former champs and has wins over 3 top 5 hws in his very short career. like him or not he is a top hw and decides to only fight the top dogs.

As far as top 5 hwy's go, Mir, a 45 yr old Randy, and the 3 minute man, are a weak bunch.

well if mir is a weak hw , what does that make nog (fedors best win to date). also in randys previous fight to brock he had just destroyed the guy that pretty much mentally raped cro cops (fedors 3rd best win to date) career in gonzaga so im guessing cro cop was a weak hw as well. to be honest besides a chump in barnett who needs roids in order to even compete, did cor cop ever beat another top 5 hw? or was he just koing second string guys the majority of his career.

does the term "shot fighter" mean anything to you?

And speaking of roids, I know at least one, and have a strong suspicion of another of the UFC's "top" hwys who have used.

i see many shot fighters however when mir fought nog, nog wasnt shot. when gonzaga fought cro cop , cro cop wasnt shot. when timmy fought fedor, timmy wasnt shot.

as far as the roids go. i agree , i see several of the hws on roids.heck even when timmy defended the title the first time he was busted however unlike barnett he manned up to it and didnt run to japan scared to face the commision like josh did twice

CC wasn't himself either, but that kick ended CC's competitive career. Nog had both a blown knee and a staph infection when he fought Mir so he may or may not have been shot but either way he was not in fighting shape.

Instead of saying Fedor was dumb, some have to overrate and jump on Werdum's bandwagon.

It was a mixture of a mistake and skill, as are most wins and losses in sports. Especially this sport.

Freak, how long are you going to keep up this nonsense of claiming anyone that disagrees with you thinks everyone in the UFC is better than every other org? Its been your calling card for like a week now and its getting pretty annoying. Need I remind you that you had to be beat over the head for like 3 pages to add some Bellator and SF fights to the GOR? And if I remember correctly on your last divisional rankings you had by far the fewest amount of non-UFC fighters ranked

Freak is right when it comes to LA, but good point bobbitt.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Even though he doesn't realize it and probably never really even watched Pride, throwdown does hit on something. Those fights Nog lost in the UFC probably wouldn't have been stopped in Pride.

Not stopped? The straight KO by Cain or the repeated knockdowns by Mir?