Ultimate Fedor thread.

Yeah I think Brock's growth is comparable to Sosa's, not as obvious as Bonds but still noticable. Brock was always big that isn't the question. He is naturally a big strong monster of a man. However in his peak in the WWE there is no question his body had changed. Now it is possible it was a natural growth for such a big man but it really doesn't look likely. The most likely situation is he was juicing, that is all I'm saying. He did take a Sosa like jump in body type.

Sorry Sooner, but I know how much weight and muscle I put on from 21 to 31 and that is comparable. Particularly since it doesn't look like he put on a new head.

It's possible that a huge guy with already a great physique got a job in the WWE where all he had to do was reherse and workout all day, every day.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

GDPofDRC wrote:

It's true, we all know for certain Bonds didn't use PED's guys, he never had a positive test so how could he of been a user, it's simple.

Bonds gained about 100 lbs from the time I was a teenager to about five years later. Brock was a monster when he was in the womb. Big difference in that analogy.

Yeah I just named Sosa and Bonds because they have never tested positive for roids but we all know they used roids. Sosa did have some growth as well, not as bad as Bonds but you could still see the change. But you can look at Brock as a HW in college and then at his peak in the WWE and see the same kind of growth. I think it is far more likely he falls into the category of guys who just never tested positive, rather then just being the victim of unfair criticism.

Sammy Sosa had a little growth? go look at his pictures from the Rangers when he looked like a human tooth pick

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

Sorry Sooner, but I know how much weight and muscle I put on from 21 to 31 and that is comparable. Particularly since it doesn't look like he put on a new head.

Really? Because I thought Brock's head/neck was the biggest difference. I know you can't say someone used without proof, but I give Brock less then a 50-50 chance he wasn't on the juice.

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

It's possible that a huge guy with already a great physique got a job in the WWE where all he had to do was reherse and workout all day, every day.

Yeah that is possible, I admit that. But like I said it appears to be far more likely he juiced, I just think it looks like the far more likely senario.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

tolivendiewithLA wrote:

It's possible that a huge guy with already a great physique got a job in the WWE where all he had to do was reherse and workout all day, every day.

Yeah that is possible, I admit that. But like I said it appears to be far more likely he juiced, I just think it looks like the far more likely senario.

No possible way he juiced while in WWF/E. You remember all the trouble Vince got in after the Hogan thing? The gov't threatened him with numerous sanctions and a possible shutdown of his business and jail time. They did surprise tests for a long time on all employees randomly. It was part of his compliance with the feds.

Man this thread took a big turn. Roids was popping up on numerous threads after I started this.

come on BBC, not possible? I can see "not likely" but not possible is going a little too far. Just like other sports the cheaters are far ahead of the testers. Not only is it possible, I still think it is also likely.

also BBC, Chris Benot and Eddie Guerruo(sp) both after death were revealed to be on the juice. Around the same time I remember a few active wrestlers like Ray Misterio getting busted, this was after Brock left for UFC.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

come on BBC, not possible? I can see "not likely" but not possible is going a little too far. Just like other sports the cheaters are far ahead of the testers. Not only is it possible, I still think it is also likely.

Yeah ur right. I went a little too far with that comment. Brock came in a few years after the scandal so I think the WWF/E was a little more responsible at the time. Of course in time wrestlers prolly went back to juicing. I just don't think it was as bad when Brock was around or after for the most part. I just don't want to tarnish a guys name based on speculation. Hear say wise I think there is alot more people saying they knew Sosa and Bonds did roids. I haven't heard alot of people who know Brock saying he juiced like people in baseball did those two guys. In respect to Sosa and Bonds the spotlight was alot brighter and bigger on them.

About 20 or 30 have been suspended since 2007, big $ guys too, their world champs included. But you don't hear about anyone before that. Pro wrestling has always been a steroid culture. WWF steroid scandal was in the early 90's and didn't do much other than cost the org a few million. The feds only got serious about it 4 years ago after Benoit and Guerrero died.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

come on BBC, not possible? I can see "not likely" but not possible is going a little too far. Just like other sports the cheaters are far ahead of the testers. Not only is it possible, I still think it is also likely.

Yeah ur right. I went a little too far with that comment. Brock came in a few years after the scandal so I think the WWF/E was a little more responsible at the time. Of course in time wrestlers prolly went back to juicing. I just don't think it was as bad when Brock was around or after for the most part. I just don't want to tarnish a guys name based on speculation. Hear say wise I think there is alot more people saying they knew Sosa and Bonds did roids. I haven't heard alot of people who know Brock saying he juiced like people in baseball did those two guys. In respect to Sosa and Bonds the spotlight was alot brighter and bigger on them.

Yeah I get that, not bashing without proof. That is why I'm not saying "yes, he was on the juice" but rather I personally think he probably did. But like Bonds and Sosa he is in a sport that is known for juicing. So you know how it is hard to find the MLB guys we are sure didn't use roids, same kind of thing. We don't have a smoking gun, but you can see why somone would draw that conclusion.

GDPofDRC wrote:

About 20 or 30 have been suspended since 2007, big $ guys too, their world champs included. But you don't hear about anyone before that. Pro wrestling has always been a steroid culture. WWF steroid scandal was in the early 90's and didn't do much other than cost the org a few million. The feds only got serious about it 4 years ago after Benoit and Guerrero died.

They got serious again after they died. Vince was hammered down the first time too just like I said earlier. He had to clean up the image and stood by it. Of course it didn't last. Either way that doesn't mean that Brock did or didn't take PED's. I know this will contradict what I have said earlier, but I would much rather have a guy fighting for a title who has possibly used years before he got into MMA, rather than a guy like Barnett who used them to train during his tune up for a title match like he did with Randy and Fedor. That is way worse imo.

Yeah even I am with Sooner on that! "not possible" is a wee bit strong. I think it is very possible, but he was a big boy whether he liked it or not. And yes I think he could take out Fedor, sorry fella's but I just do.

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

Yeah even I am with Sooner on that! "not possible" is a wee bit strong. I think it is very possible, but he was a big boy whether he liked it or not. And yes I think he could take out Fedor, sorry fella's but I just do.

BLASPHEMY!

Do we even know for sure what Brock's illness was for sure? His whole ordeal was pretty shady IMO. There was even concern that he wouldn't make it. Something burned through a hole through his guts. And I think this is a good thread BBC, spirited debate is cool. You origanaly brought up roids in referring to Overiods anyway.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

Yeah even I am with Sooner on that! "not possible" is a wee bit strong. I think it is very possible, but he was a big boy whether he liked it or not. And yes I think he could take out Fedor, sorry fella's but I just do.

BLASPHEMY!

LMAO! I know, I know. Sorry, the guy is faster, stronger, heavier, taller, and probably has a hotter woman than Fedor, a skank sure, but hotter.

ohiovol62 wrote:

Do we even know for sure what Brock's illness was for sure? His whole ordeal was pretty shady IMO. There was even concern that he wouldn't make it. Something burned through a hole through his guts. And I think this is a good thread BBC, spirited debate is cool. You origanaly brought up roids in referring to Overiods anyway.

Oh I know I brought em up. I was joking and meant how the thread went from Fedor to roids and Sosa. Just thought it was funny.
Brock has diverticulitis which I have. Mine isn't as serious as his was because he required surgery. I have 3 pockets formed in my intestine walls where he evidently has holes which is worse because of the infection that spreads thruout your blood. I just got over a small bout with it about two weeks ago. This time I didn't wait four days and crammed Activia and a bunch of fruit and fiber bars down my throat. That kept the pain away 90% from the first time. First time was torture. I just finished my antibiotics the other day. (Doxycycline). Hope it doesn't get bad like his because I can't afford nor do I have enough weight to lose now.

Andrew the Raider King wrote:

Everybody knows I have the opinion he hasn't fought any real competition in a while.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

Yeah I honestly think Grim is the only legit top ten guy he has fought in a few years. imo

Fedor has in fact beaten more higher-ranked "top guys" recently than anyone else in the entire HW division.

Rogers, Arlovski & Sylvia were all top 10 when he beat them. In fact Sylvia and Arlovski were both top 5. Plus he was scheduled to face the #2 guy in Barnett.
Outside of 2007 the year following Pride's demise, Fedor has been fighting real top competition his whole career.


For comparison to the UFC's top HW, in Brock's last 3 fights - which is the entirety of his current win streak (as well as the only meaningful wins he has had for his entire career) - he has beaten two consensus top-5/top-10 opponents in a row in Mir and Randy, and one generally unranked opponent in Herring. So Brock's 3-fight streak is not definitively any better than but is very arguably inferior to Fedor's last 3 - and Brock's 3-fight win streak is certainly not even close to Fedor's overall, still-ongoing 27-fight win streak.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

I think he is just a big ol country boy.

Yea just a good ole country boy. They must have some good ol Creatine out in the country.

bigbeastcardinal12 wrote:

No possible way he juiced while in WWF/E. You remember all the trouble Vince got in after the Hogan thing? The gov't threatened him with numerous sanctions and a possible shutdown of his business and jail time. They did surprise tests for a long time on all employees randomly. It was part of his compliance with the feds.

The steroid scandal your talking about was 10 years prior to Lesnar being in the WWE and his run was before the more recent steroid scandal with Benoit and Guerro. There was no surprise steroid tests while Lesnar was wrestling.

Mind boggling for people to really think that Lesnar never used steroids especially during his WWE career. Even the smallest guys on the WWE roster like Rey Mysterio, Jamie Noble and Jeff Hardy have been caught with them.

Would you guys please quit bringing up Arlovski, Sylvia, and Rogers like they were unstoppable forces at the top of their game when they ran into Fedor. Sylvia and Arlovski were both former champions in the UFC, when the UFC Heavyweight division sucked. As for Rogers? He has some broadening of the sport to do and has heavy hands, but did anyone really think he was going to win? There are only a few fighters I think who stand a chance of beating him. Randy, because nobody is better in the clinch than he is and I think he would eventually have a chance of beating him by decision. Mir, good standing or on the ground, he might be able steal a win (I wouldn't bet money on it). Lesnar is a powerful force, with speed, quickness, strength, and a great grappling base, I think he stands the best chance of beating Fedor of anybody. There is no one outside the UFC that I think stands a chance against Fedor and to think there is, is crazy.

Sylvia and Arlovski both left as top contenders in the UFC and both appeared to be at their best or close too it prior to facing Fedor. Sylvia had just been the #1 contender (again) who had just fought (and fought impressively) for the title - and where Arlovski was actually STILL the rightful #1 contender in the UFC, clearly ahead of everyone else in the UFC's HW division at that point, Just as Sylvia and Couture also left to pursue Fedor. Arlovski left for a better offer from Affliction.

The UFC and Dana had actually desperately wanted to hold on to Arlovski, and even, according to Dana, "kissed his butt" just to try to get him to stay.

Uh, Rogers was a very dangerous opponent considering he is a heavy striker, bigger than Lesnar and it was Fedor's first fight in a cage. Plus Rogers was in fact a consensus top-10 HW at the time and undefeated.

When Rogers fought Arlovski he was still easily at the top of the HW division (and was still a consensus top-5 HW) when Rogers beat him - which is why Rogers himself then became (rightfully) a consensus top-10 HW in turn, after destroying Arlovski.(And generally ranked around #7 to #9 on virtually every major ranking around.)

Not to mention before Lesnar pulled out with an injury he was suppose to face Carwin. Rogers was universally ranked higher than Carwin.

Red. Please give me a break. It is a fact that the UFC's HW Division was a joke during the reign of AA and Sylvia, Pride had the very best HWs and there is no denying that. Dana did want to keep AA, because he was highly touted and a fan favorite, plus he was still trying to build up the division which looked pathetic compared to the rest of the UFC. AA always had a suspect chin. Sylvia just kept getting bigger and bigger and we are not talking muscle mass here plus he had just been schooled by "the old man" in front of God and the world. I like Rogers and think he is a dangerous fighter, but I never (and neither did anybody else) thought he was going to beat Fedor and I don't know anybody who thought he would. I have already listed those I believe who might beat Fedor and the reasoning.

I understand your a fan of Fedor and I respect that. But understand that I am a Kenny Florian fan and though I think he is the only person who has a chance of beating BJ Penn at LW, I really don't think he can or will. It is not that I am not a fan, I am objective.

Your opinion that Fedor is not fighting the best competition is inaccurate and my posts above objectively depict that.

He is fighting the best competition more so than any other HW currently or of all time.