Brock Lesnar apologetic...

Brock fought a miserable game plan against Cain, plain and simple. I think Cain would always be a tough match-up for Brock, but I do think he can win. The reason for Brock scrambling out of the pocket, the way he did against Shane too, is simple: long arms and broad shoulders are a terrible recipe physiologically for exchanging in the pocket, which he tried too often until he realized he couldn't hit them before they hit him. The fact that he wasn't KO'd is testament to a great chin, and I've seen several guys retreat when they're getting tagged, just usually they go to sleep shortly afterward. But his size and inability to go out made for some goofy moments. He's still a great heavyweight, who has a lot of growing to do as a fighter. Coming back against Roy Nelson is a good and humble step back. Roy was a win away from a title shot so this isn't Brock looking for an easy fight.

And here is how Brock can beat Cain. First, Brock needs to play defense in the stand-up the same way he did against Frank Mir II and the way Cheick Kongo did against Cain. Brock has long enough arms to keep the short and tight strikes of Cain out of his danger zone. Paw, jab, move, and slip a right straight in from time to time. Basically, make Cain eat something before entering the pocket, then retreat. To this for as long as Cain can stand it, and then he will go for a shot. It would be a hard sell to take Brock down with a shot from outside. From there Brock could stuff and lay his 265 pound frame on Cain and wear him down. I think that's his best bet, but he should never try to charge a guy like Cain and shoot right off the bat. What Brock really needs is a better camp.

The most overlooked part of that fight is how truly awful the gameplan Brock came to the cage with was

That falls under my criticism of his camp and his overall MMA game. This ignores the fundamental reality that we really have no idea what his game plan was besides an out of the gate rush because as soon as he gets hit whatever his gameplan is flies out of the cage.

I think he figured he had to come out hard and heavy from the start in order to possibly hurt Cain and sap some of that cardio away from him if this were to go into deep waters.

Is his ego too big to ask Greg Jackson for help or is Shane Carwin enough for Jackson?

LudoCain wrote:

I think he figured he had to come out hard and heavy from the start in order to possibly hurt Cain and sap some of that cardio away from him if this were to go into deep waters.

But he wasted his own energy in doing that.

Yes but thats not the point. The point is the best way to take away cardio from a guy who has tons of it is to hurt him. You bust him open, injure him somehow, put the hurt on him and his gas tank starts to sink. Brock if uninjured could probably have gone two rounds at that pace and had he succeeded in hurting Cain he may not have had to go any further, or at least not at that kind of pace.

So Brocks game plan should have been to use his jab and mobility to keep distance?

Get the fuck out of here.

a better camp and good game plan with some improved stand up sums it up. with this he gets the belt back. then again in a perfect world aa and overeem would have an iron chin, timmy would learn sub defense, mir would have top notch wrestling, carwin would have a huge gas tank and nelson would be ripped.

Not the old gameplan excuse.

The "he fought somebody superior and got mugged" is always a perfect excuse for a TKO loss.

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Not the old gameplan excuse.

The "he fought somebody superior and got mugged" is always a perfect excuse for a TKO loss.

Do you mean to say you feel he didn't come in with a horrid gameplan?

i think they never expected for his fights to even get around the 3rd yet alone 4th or 5th rounds in his fights which added to the game planning being so near sighted

Coming out and attacking like that off the bat was a pretty good game plan against a guy that superior in hand speed, body and head movement and wrestling. That's his game right, hulk smash? I respect Lesnar for living and dying by it.

LudoCain wrote:

KingsOwn19 wrote:

Not the old gameplan excuse.

The "he fought somebody superior and got mugged" is always a perfect excuse for a TKO loss.

Do you mean to say you feel he didn't come in with a horrid gameplan?

I don't see what would have been a better one. He came out very agressive, landed some good shots and achieved the takedown. The fight went south for him when it was established that he would be unable to keep Cain down, not even for a little bit and that he could not stop Cain from taking him down and beating the crap out of him.

If Brock played it patient he would have got picked apart by Cain. Cain is just more talented than Lesnar. Thats why i picked him. Brock had a low chance of defeating him if he was not going to be able to smother him and i just did not see that happening to somebody as strong and with the wrestling background of Cain.

I think Brock wanted to but Velasquez under pressure instantly and see how he reacted

didnt go so well but ballsy by Brock for sure, Velasquez had way better hands and his wrestling and sprawl game was on par with Brock, we havent seen anyone hold someone down in a scramble and punch him. we had seen brock fall from a punch and seen Randy take him down for a second but when Velasquez got him face down and landed some good punches I realized Cain really is stronger than Brock.

I think Brock is raw but beats a bunch of people still in the division, so what, its happened before in MMA. Guys have come out of no where and been instant top 10 caliber fighters. I think Brock is still top 10 he was just never number 1.

Plus, it's not like Brock's approach was anything new. He bullrushed Mir in both fights. He bullrushed Herring. He bullrushed Kim. Maybe Couture, though i only vaguely remember that fight since watching it live was the only time i've watched it.

Brock was able to do to Cain what he did againt Mir. Charge, get some strikes in, get him down....Cain got right back up. What can Brock do? take an asswhooping but Brock fought his fight and it's not good enough. Coming out and looking for an exhange or clearly only looking to shoot for the takedown would be falling in the fight Cain Velaquez was probably prepared for, which could explain why Cain seemed off guard with Brock's early charge.

It's the best bet for somebody who has slim to no striking skills to get some effective strikes in and it also opens up the takedown for him. He didnt come out like that against Carwin and Carwin drew first blood because Brock gave him the oppurtunity to expose his standup. It also serves to set up the eventual takedown because Brock has not been good with the takedown when he's NOT bullrushing his oppenent with rock em sock em punches as shown early in the Carwin fight and the Couture fight.

Lesnar is never going to be as fast as Cain, the physique and age difference are enough to probably prevent it. That will always play a key role anytime he fights on his feet. He is real deficient in punched in the face technique and really seems indecisive a lot on his feet. He needs to spend serious time there.

His size and wrestling, he needs to combine and use these a lot better then he might know how. He is the second guy at or around 270 Cain has tossed with ease and his attempts to keep smaller HWs who could roll down(Cain and Randy) failed, they had better skill. If he can figure out a ground game that better utilizes his size to suit him for the stronger guys and the better wrestlers, that will be his best chance out side of a freak KO to get back. I think that will be tough for him to do, but not impossible. I don't think he will. Only a handful of guys beat him still so he is close, but still far away.