Does Antonio have a shot?

Just wondering what the boxing world thinks.

One thing I noticed watching 24/7 last night was Antonio stood a full head over Manny.

Talk about the $64000 question.

1-Size; He has a height advantage. He fought at 147 for a long time, 154 for a few fights mixed in. He is the much bigger man. Manny could make 140. Probably could get down close to 135 still.
2-Manny's punch resistance- He looked worse for the wear after the Cotto and Clottey fights. That is understandable in the Cotto fight. Miguel landed some big shots in the first 4 rounds. Clottey only landed a few uppercuts in the middle rounds (and not much else) and Manny still looked like he had been in a tussle. Once again, Manny is smaller. At some point, he will struggle to stand up to shots from bigger men.
3-Tony throws a nice left uppercut that is known to cut guys. If he cuts Manny the fight can change
4-Tony does good body work. Cotto and Clottey didn't go to the body. How does Manny react to good bodyshots?


But what version of Margarito are we getting?

he was in battles with PW, Clottey, Cintron twice (both abbreviated KO wins but both times he took shots), Cotto, and Mosley beatdown.

Margarito took alot of shots from top 5 competition at 147 (listed above). That has to add up.

He looked bad in the comeback fight recently.

He has been pro since he was 16. He's 31, but he may be old in "ring years".

The conventional wisdom is that Margarito isn't shot, but he isn't the same guy that faced Cotto a few years ago. He'll give it his all, but Manny is probably too fast. Manny best not stand and trade with margarito the way he did with Cotto and Clottey.

yyes TOney has a very legit shot, yes he has looked bad recently but damn it he is a welterweight walking around at jr middle or bigger and hes natural. ya heard it before said it before but Antonio Margarito has a legit shot.

He will look slow vs Pacquiao, with the hands and feet. But he will throw unlike Clottey, Clottey hurt Pac when he hit him, same with Cotto, even though Pac won easy. Margarito, throwing triple uppercuts will etiher be a open book for Pacquiao or he will get to Pac and break him down mythodically

Birdofthad wrote:

yyes TOney has a very legit shot, yes he has looked bad recently but damn it he is a welterweight walking around at jr middle or bigger and hes natural. ya heard it before said it before but Antonio Margarito has a legit shot.

He will look slow vs Pacquiao, with the hands and feet. But he will throw unlike Clottey, Clottey hurt Pac when he hit him, same with Cotto, even though Pac won easy. Margarito, throwing triple uppercuts will etiher be a open book for Pacquiao or he will get to Pac and break him down mythodically

Seriously? There was a never one moment in either of those fights where I was like "Wow, Pac got hurt by that one"

Pac wasn't hurt in either fight, but he looked worse for the wear. He looked beat up after the Cotto fight and he was marked up a little after the Clottey fight.

I don't think Tony will get to him, but at some point pretty soon, Pac is going to run into big trouble fighting bigger guys. His body can't take many shots from much bigger men. He is a small junior welter or big lightweight.

not so much oh my god Manny out on his feet

it was that Clottey at times threw single upper cuts and upper jabs that broke Pacs guard and snapped Pacs head back

he didnt force or push anyhting, Margarito will, and i tihnk he (atleast used to hit harder, and I dont think he loaded every fight) hits harder than Clottey.

Pac is the favorite but Antonio is a live dog

he also has the habit to walk into some punches

Sooner or later this thing has gotta come back down to Earth. The boxing world needs to pray to the Gods that have forsaken them to bring Pacman a victory because if he loses to this guy, with Mayweather on the shelf and facing possible prison, there is nothing left of the sport to sell stateside.

I disagree wolf boxing always finds someone, remember when Oscar de la Hoya retired the sport was supposedly screwed?

If Antonio Margarito wins I bet the fight sells well, like him or not , ya know what, hispanics love Margarito, I have seen him in crowds numerous times and he gets loud cheers (louder than De La Hoya)

Margaritos next PPV will sell big if he wins, Mayweather will definitely fight another fight before he goes to jail (if that in fact is what occurs)

Paul Williams vs Sergio Martinez rematch can produce a star that these two combatants deserve to be made into.

Amir Khan, Haye, and the Klitschkos can continue to carry the oversea's market (which is huge)

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Sooner or later this thing has gotta come back down to Earth. The boxing world needs to pray to the Gods that have forsaken them to bring Pacman a victory because if he loses to this guy, with Mayweather on the shelf and facing possible prison, there is nothing left of the sport to sell stateside.

Spoken like a true casual fan. Pac Mayweather is for sure the biggest fight, but like boxing did when Mayweather retired it will survive without Pacquiao. There is always another fighter waiting in the winds to take the baton and carve out their own niche. JuanMa, Gamboa, Segura, Canelo, Frankie Gomez, Jose Benevides, Sadam Ali, Demetrius Andrade, Amir Khan, Bradley, Alexander, Ortiz, Paul Williams are all possible candidates from this hemisphere to take the top spot in the next few years.

what do you mean by sooner or later this thing has to come down to earth

do ya mean the Manny amazingness???

The difference here is Pacman made his name by blasting DLH. So there was a "passing of the torch" in front of over a million PPV buyers. DLH's mojo was directly absorbed by Pacman. Margo is a cheat and doesn't have the "little guy destroy legends brutally" hook and catchy nickname. He is damaged goods and I really doubt he gains even close to the popularity of Pacman.

Birdofthad wrote:

what do you mean by sooner or later this thing has to come down to earth

do ya mean the Manny amazingness???

I can't believe it lasted this long. There is no way this is sustainable.

Margarito is a live dog for sure.

To compare him to Cotto or Clottey is a bad comparison. Tony is a come forward guy who lives on being able to take punishment and wear his opponent out. Both Cotto and Clottey are faster. Cotto is by far a better boxer than Tony and Clottey landed sure but didn't take any risks in trying. It was one punch at a time about once or twice a round, very unpredictable and Pacquiao was pouring it on throwing one hundred or more punches a round, he wont engage Margarito like that. Margarito is volume but predictable. The game plan will be to box Tony not engage. Pac will be on his horse all night. I think it will look a lot like the Oscar fight.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The difference here is Pacman made his name by blasting DLH. So there was a "passing of the torch" in front of over a million PPV buyers. DLH's mojo was directly absorbed by Pacman. Margo is a cheat and doesn't have the "little guy destroy legends brutally" hook and catchy nickname. He is damaged goods and I really doubt he gains even close to the popularity of Pacman.

Joey Maxim didn't ruin Robinsons career and Hopkins didn't ruin DLH's and both of their careers didn't explode after beating much smaller men. The feat alone fighting this guy at '54 is enough to carry Pacquiao to three or more big fights.

DLH was drained, old and a part time fighter when Pac kicked his ass, the Hatton fight is the one that made Pacquiao the name he is today. DLH hadn't been a big name for a long time. Hatton was undefeated in the division.

I may be a casual fan but I don't think nuanced knowledge is required to see the writing on the wall. I know it's a refrain that boxing hardcores hate hearing, but with the rising of other combat sports and the decline of boxings draws coupled with the dysfunction of the promoters, there is little way that a new marketable draw in the million buy range can be created.

The Hatton fighted added to it, sure, but Manny became Manny after he trashed ODLH.

Cool, I was assuming most thought Pac would walk Margarito. Which given the size advantage, and the aura he held b4 the mosley fight I found surprising.

Agree with wolf that Tony is damaged goods, hard to think he can take the mantle as the top ppv guy in the sport.

And props to 24/7 for getting me interested in this fight.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The Hatton fighted added to it, sure, but Manny became Manny after he trashed ODLH.

Wrong, wrong , wrong.

Morales twice and Barrera twice, probably his signature fights. The brutal Hatton KO is the one that made him Supermanny, Oscar was nice but he fucking retired Hatton. People remember brutality, Hatton is the one.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I may be a casual fan but I don't think nuanced knowledge is required to see the writing on the wall. I know it's a refrain that boxing hardcores hate hearing, but with the rising of other combat sports and the decline of boxings draws coupled with the dysfunction of the promoters, there is little way that a new marketable draw in the million buy range can be created.

Who would have thought a broken english speaking 5'5" Filipino who sings Karaoke in his spare time would be bigger than Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, and the current crop of Heavyweights? Boxing will continue to make money both foreign and domestic. Boxing is growing worldwide and the dollar isn't worth what it was, the biggest stars aren't even American at the moment and still garnering huge gates and PPV's. Pac Clottey was in front of 51,000 and did something like half mil ppv's. Two foreign fighters, one of which not well known did major numbers.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The Hatton fighted added to it, sure, but Manny became Manny after he trashed ODLH.

Wrong, wrong , wrong.

Morales twice and Barrera twice, probably his signature fights. The brutal Hatton KO is the one that made him Supermanny, Oscar was nice but he fucking retired Hatton. People remember brutality, Hatton is the one.

Maybe in the boxing-blog-media bubble you're immersed in.

But the numbers clearly tell a different tale.

1. Erik Morales I 03/19/05 350,000
2. Erik Morales II 01/21/06 360,000
3. Oscar Larios 07/02/06 Unavailible
4. Erik Morales III 11/18/06 350,000
5. Jorge Solis 04/14/07 200,000
6. Marco Antonio Barrera II 10/06/07 350,000
7. Juan Manuel Marquez II 03/15/08 400,000
8. David Diaz 06/28/08 250,000
9. Oscar De La Hoya 12/06/08 1.25 million
10. Ricky Hatton 05/02/09 850,000
11. Miguel Cotto 11/14/09 1.25 million
12. Joshua Clottey 03/13/10 700,000

People bought the bolded fight for DLH, and found a new reason to buy fights. The Hatton fight certainly continued to build on it but it was the DLH fight that created his star. No one would have paid attention to Hatton-Pacman enough for it to get the 800k it did otherwise. Hatton was never a PPV draw and has barely fought on PPV since anyone knew his name. All his fights were on HBO except the one after Mayweather which was on Verses or some shit if I recall correctly. They bought that fight for Pacman.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I may be a casual fan but I don't think nuanced knowledge is required to see the writing on the wall. I know it's a refrain that boxing hardcores hate hearing, but with the rising of other combat sports and the decline of boxings draws coupled with the dysfunction of the promoters, there is little way that a new marketable draw in the million buy range can be created.

Who would have thought a broken english speaking 5'5" Filipino who sings Karaoke in his spare time would be bigger than Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, and the current crop of Heavyweights? Boxing will continue to make money both foreign and domestic. Boxing is growing worldwide and the dollar isn't worth what it was, the biggest stars aren't even American at the moment and still garnering huge gates and PPV's. Pac Clottey was in front of 51,000 and did something like half mil ppv's. Two foreign fighters, one of which not well known did major numbers.

Pac Clotty was all Pacman. If he loses to Antonio it doesn't create a new star out of his ashes like Oscar did. I know boxing is doing well outside the states, but my original post only speaks to inside the states, where its prospects are dismal at best.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The Hatton fighted added to it, sure, but Manny became Manny after he trashed ODLH.

Wrong, wrong , wrong.

Morales twice and Barrera twice, probably his signature fights. The brutal Hatton KO is the one that made him Supermanny, Oscar was nice but he fucking retired Hatton. People remember brutality, Hatton is the one.

Maybe in the boxing-blog-media bubble you immersed in.

But the numbers clearly tell a different tale.

1. Erik Morales I 03/19/05 350,000
2. Erik Morales II 01/21/06 360,000
3. Oscar Larios 07/02/06 Unavailible
4. Erik Morales III 11/18/06 350,000
5. Jorge Solis 04/14/07 200,000
6. Marco Antonio Barrera II 10/06/07 350,000
7. Juan Manuel Marquez II 03/15/08 400,000
8. David Diaz 06/28/08 250,000
9. Oscar De La Hoya 12/06/08 1.25 million
10. Ricky Hatton 05/02/09 850,000
11. Miguel Cotto 11/14/09 1.25 million
12. Joshua Clottey 03/13/10 700,000

People bought the bolded fight for DLH, and found a new reason to buy fights. The Hatton fight certainly continued to build on it but it was the DLH fight that created his star. No one would have paid attention to Hatton-Pacman enough for it to get the 800k it did otherwise. Hatton was never a PPV draw and has barely fought on PPV since anyone knew his name. All his fights were on HBO except the one after Mayweather which was on Verses or some shit if I recall correctly. They bought that fight for Pacman.

A new reason to buy fights??? What number did Hatton Mayweather do the year before. Margarito Cotto. Name another Super Featherweight that does 350,000 in 2005 then continues to repeat it. Naturally three and a half years later and three and a half more years of success you are going to see bigger numbers. You're right Oscar will sell regardless. But to say that is his signature fight is crazy, people bought that fight to see Oscar beat the P4P champ not for a little guy to destroy what was once a legend. Pac was huge dog in that fight (he shouldn't have been btw). The Hatton fight is why Pac did 1.25 with Cotto and 700,000 with boring ass Clottey who until Cotto was largely unheard of. He was coming off a loss to the guy that Pacquiao just KO'd. My point is that if Margarito a much larger opponent beats the smaller Pacquiao his star power will not burn out just like Oscar's didn't after losing to the much larger Hopkins.

Quote :

But to say that is his signature fight is crazy, people bought that fight to see Oscar beat the P4P champ not for a little guy to destroy what was once a legend. Pac was huge dog in that fight (he shouldn't have been btw).

Maybe I haven't made my point clear because you're arguing for it. My point is Pacman became the mega mainstream star he is and PPV force with that bout, with that victory. He didn't just beat ODLH he mauled him. That fight created the buzz with casuals and turned Pacman from someone who boxing nerds know about to someone that could be considered a house hold name. The million people who bought that fight for DLH's name found a new reason to buy fights. Pacman. Hatton-Pacman does 350k without the DLH fight. English fighters who got KTFO'd by Mayweather in their first real exposure to American PPV buyers wouldn't be pulling any significant numbers.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

But to say that is his signature fight is crazy, people bought that fight to see Oscar beat the P4P champ not for a little guy to destroy what was once a legend. Pac was huge dog in that fight (he shouldn't have been btw).

Maybe I haven't made my point clear because you're arguing for it. My point is Pacman became the mega mainstream star he is and PPV force with that bout, with that victory. He didn't just beat ODLH he mauled him. That fight created the buzz with casuals and turned Pacman from someone who boxing nerds know about to someone that could be considered a house hold name. The million people who bought that fight for DLH's name found a new reason to buy fights. Pacman. Hatton-Pacman does 350k without the DLH fight. English fighters who got KTFO'd by Mayweather in their first real exposure to American PPV buyers wouldn't be pulling any significant numbers.

Hatton had five American fights before Floyd (4 HBO Headliners and a Showtime championship) , he only got the fight after KOing Floyds toughest test then calling out Mayweather on HBO. My point is that Pacman defeated an old mostly retired guy in DLH and beat the shit out of two arguable prime candidates in Hatton (which did less than Cotto) and Cotto which did the same number that DLH Pac fight did. So I still feel that the Hatton KO made him the megastar he is today with the numbers that follwed in the Cotto fight. Oscar is still not his signature fight. Again Wolf I made the point that just because a megastar loses (Oscar has six of them) doesn't mean people stop buying PPVs. Cotto Margarito PPV, Hatton Floyd all before Pac DLH. You act like people don't watch boxing because you only watch the big events. 850,000 for Hatton Pac is the US domestic number only.