If Shad beats Page.....

205 will be a mess. Lyoto is already fighting a guy that no one deems worthy. Page needs to win, and thus get a title shot, in order to bridge the gap between the current top contendors list, which is in shambles at the moment, and the young up and comers like Cane and Jones.

captain organic wrote:

205 will be a mess. Lyoto is already fighting a guy that no one deems worthy. Page needs to win, and thus get a title shot, in order to bridge the gap between the current top contendors list, which is in shambles at the moment, and the young up and comers like Cane and Jones.

A lot of people, myself included, think that Shogun has one of the best, if not the best chance to beat Machida right now.

Yeah, right when I heard Rampage was gonna fight Rashad, I thought Shogun was the obvious next pick for a title shot. I thought it was weird that everyone was complaining so much when he was the choice.

Jruq wrote:

captain organic wrote:

205 will be a mess. Lyoto is already fighting a guy that no one deems worthy. Page needs to win, and thus get a title shot, in order to bridge the gap between the current top contendors list, which is in shambles at the moment, and the young up and comers like Cane and Jones.

A lot of people, myself included, think that Shogun has one of the best, if not the best chance to beat Machida right now.

Aight "no one" was an obvious exaggeration. "alot of people" thinking Shogun has good chance in this fight is also a pretty big exaggeration. Guy has not looked right in over 2 years.

captain organic wrote:

Jruq wrote:

captain organic wrote:

205 will be a mess. Lyoto is already fighting a guy that no one deems worthy. Page needs to win, and thus get a title shot, in order to bridge the gap between the current top contendors list, which is in shambles at the moment, and the young up and comers like Cane and Jones.

A lot of people, myself included, think that Shogun has one of the best, if not the best chance to beat Machida right now.

Aight "no one" was an obvious exaggeration. "alot of people" thinking Shogun has good chance in this fight is also a pretty big exaggeration. Guy has not looked right in over 2 years.

That's also false - he put on a clinic against Chuck.

That would setup Randy nicely. He could come right down and get yet another title shot. I'm halfway kidding when I say that.
Luiz Cane could be pushed into a title fight. Who knows if lil Nog really does sign like his brother said he is then he could be put in a contender matchup. Cane vs Nog winner gets a shot. Just throwing things out there.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

That would setup Randy nicely. He could come right down and get yet another title shot. I'm halfway kidding when I say that.
Luiz Cane could be pushed into a title fight. Who knows if lil Nog really does sign like his brother said he is then he could be put in a contender matchup. Cane vs Nog winner gets a shot. Just throwing things out there.

I was thinking the same thing about Randy. Nog would def be a good possibility. I don't think Cane is near ready. He's looked good and all, but we're talking Machida.

[quote="Jruq"]

captain organic wrote:

Jruq wrote:

captain organic wrote:

205 will be a mess. Lyoto is already fighting a guy that no one deems worthy. Page needs to win, and thus get a title shot, in order to bridge the gap between the current top contendors list, which is in shambles at the moment, and the young up and comers like Cane and Jones.

A lot of people, myself included, think that Shogun has one of the best, if not the best chance to beat Machida right now.

Aight "no one" was an obvious exaggeration. "alot of people" thinking Shogun has good chance in this fight is also a pretty big exaggeration. Guy has not looked right in over 2 years.

That's also false - he put on a clinic against Chuck.[/quote]

And what clinic was that? How to KO a shot fighter?

shogun was a good choice but page needs to fight machida to test his chin!

A clinic is a clinic. Let's see Matt Hamill or Thiago Silva or you or me or 90% of all people do what Shogun did to Chuck.

Shogun looked light on his feet and super fast. This Shogun stops Forrest and Coleman round 1.

A lot of people are hating on shogun but I honestly do think he's got a good shot. He looked horrible against Coleman then only had 3 months too train for liddell. I understand Liddell isn't the same guy but Shogun looked ten times better against Liddell than he had against anyone in the UFC so far. Too me a healthy motivated Shogun will be a touch match up for anyone. I don't think his striking is whats going to beat machida I think his slick submission game will.

As for the original post I can't see shad beating page.

Shogun is as good as any with Rampage fighting Shad, but i think he's going to get tool'd. Im not saying he has zero chance in hell, but if i was a betting man, Machida via toolage.

Shogun has only one loss in three years. Name someone that is so clearly better over the same time that deserves his shot.

Little Nog.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Little Nog.

The guy that got KO'd by Soko. LOL I'm just playing Lil Nog will get in the discussion sooner rather than later but he definitley doesn't deserve a shot anymore than shogun.

Rashad isn't going to be Rampage.

Bigs03 wrote:

Rashad isn't going to be Rampage.

I agree but, if by chance he somehow managed to pull it off. What do you think about Cane vs lil Nog for a title shot?

Here are my 2 basic points regarding the topic.

1)I have Page beating Evans, but if Evans wins, and it would not be a huge upset if he did, then where is Machida's next challenger. Assuming that Machida will have already beaten Rua, there will be no clear cut #1 high profile contendor out there, but instead a bunch of guys not truly worthy of competing for a title at what is(was?) considered the best division in the sport.

2)Rua was once considered the baddest man on the planet at 205. Then in a huge upset he lost rather unimpressively vs Griffen. Then blew out his knee, had an extended layoff, and apon his return had a disappointingly tough fight with an aging Coleman. He follows that up with a win over a guy who is now 1-4 in his last 5 and has been KO'd in 3 of those fights. Many think Chuck should retire, almost all think he is forever out of the title picture. Coleman is also forever out of the title picture. So where in the last 2.5 years are the victories that make one say, yeah he deserves a title shot at what is considered the best division in the sport? He is clearly still living off his Pride exploits. Im not saying there are better options. There aren't, and that goes with my original theme. If Rashad wins, 205 is a mess.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

Rashad isn't going to be Rampage.

I agree but, if by chance he somehow managed to pull it off. What do you think about Cane vs lil Nog for a title shot?

No, if only because one would want both Cane and Nog to get shots in the not so distant future. I'd pare each off against the trio of recent champs(i'd give Cane the easier path, ie Forrest) and cross my fingers.

captain organic wrote:

Here are my 2 basic points regarding the topic.

1)I have Page beating Evans, but if Evans wins, and it would not be a huge upset if he did, then where is Machida's next challenger. Assuming that Machida will have already beaten Rua, there will be no clear cut #1 high profile contendor out there, but instead a bunch of guys not truly worthy of competing for a title at what is(was?) considered the best division in the sport.

2)Rua was once considered the baddest man on the planet at 205. Then in a huge upset he lost rather unimpressively vs Griffen. Then blew out his knee, had an extended layoff, and apon his return had a disappointingly tough fight with an aging Coleman. He follows that up with a win over a guy who is now 1-4 in his last 5 and has been KO'd in 3 of those fights. Many think Chuck should retire, almost all think he is forever out of the title picture. Coleman is also forever out of the title picture. So where in the last 2.5 years are the victories that make one say, yeah he deserves a title shot at what is considered the best division in the sport? He is clearly still living off his Pride exploits. Im not saying there are better options. There aren't, and that goes with my original theme. If Rashad wins, 205 is a mess.

Spider.

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

Rashad isn't going to be Rampage.

I agree but, if by chance he somehow managed to pull it off. What do you think about Cane vs lil Nog for a title shot?

I wouldn't mind seeing that fight either way. I just can't see Rashad winning this fight, though. Rampage has a ridiculous chin and Rashad's gonna get caught.

captain organic wrote:

Here are my 2 basic points regarding the topic.

1)I have Page beating Evans, but if Evans wins, and it would not be a huge upset if he did, then where is Machida's next challenger. Assuming that Machida will have already beaten Rua, there will be no clear cut #1 high profile contendor out there, but instead a bunch of guys not truly worthy of competing for a title at what is(was?) considered the best division in the sport.

2)Rua was once considered the baddest man on the planet at 205. Then in a huge upset he lost rather unimpressively vs Griffen. Then blew out his knee, had an extended layoff, and apon his return had a disappointingly tough fight with an aging Coleman. He follows that up with a win over a guy who is now 1-4 in his last 5 and has been KO'd in 3 of those fights. Many think Chuck should retire, almost all think he is forever out of the title picture. Coleman is also forever out of the title picture. So where in the last 2.5 years are the victories that make one say, yeah he deserves a title shot at what is considered the best division in the sport? He is clearly still living off his Pride exploits. Im not saying there are better options. There aren't, and that goes with my original theme. If Rashad wins, 205 is a mess.

A couple things: Rua already blew his knee out before the Forrest Match and couldn't really train. That is his only loss in the last 5 hyears or so. He was still beating Forrest though, before his gas tank ran out early. Also, Chuck had been KO'd by Rashad in the fight before, but it's worth noting that he was beating Rashad and made tactical errors by going after him too much and got caught. On the other hand, Shogun was beating Chuck before delivering the KO shot and looked really sharp in doing so.

Also, you included Shogun's KO of Chuck as a reason that both Chuck and Shogun are not impressive. It's just bad logic - you can say what happened before the fight to back up how impressive a win is, but this is like saying that Arlovski sucks because Fedor KO'd him and now he got KO'd again, even though he was ranked 3rd at the time of the fight.

Bigs03 wrote:

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

Bigs03 wrote:

Rashad isn't going to be Rampage.

I agree but, if by chance he somehow managed to pull it off. What do you think about Cane vs lil Nog for a title shot?

I wouldn't mind seeing that fight either way. I just can't see Rashad winning this fight, though. Rampage has a ridiculous chin and Rashad's gonna get caught.

I agree, I want to see that fight either way. I think it is a good way to give either guy a good top win. Lil Nog isn't that young so they need to give him some top guys ASAP IMO.

I dont see Rashad winning this fight.

[quote="Jruq"]

captain organic wrote:

Here are my 2 basic points regarding the topic.

1)I have Page beating Evans, but if Evans wins, and it would not be a huge upset if he did, then where is Machida's next challenger. Assuming that Machida will have already beaten Rua, there will be no clear cut #1 high profile contendor out there, but instead a bunch of guys not truly worthy of competing for a title at what is(was?) considered the best division in the sport.

2)Rua was once considered the baddest man on the planet at 205. Then in a huge upset he lost rather unimpressively vs Griffen. Then blew out his knee, had an extended layoff, and apon his return had a disappointingly tough fight with an aging Coleman. He follows that up with a win over a guy who is now 1-4 in his last 5 and has been KO'd in 3 of those fights. Many think Chuck should retire, almost all think he is forever out of the title picture. Coleman is also forever out of the title picture. So where in the last 2.5 years are the victories that make one say, yeah he deserves a title shot at what is considered the best division in the sport? He is clearly still living off his Pride exploits. Im not saying there are better options. There aren't, and that goes with my original theme. If Rashad wins, 205 is a mess.

A couple things: Rua already blew his knee out before the Forrest Match and couldn't really train. That is his only loss in the last 5 hyears or so. He was still beating Forrest though, before his gas tank ran out early. Also, Chuck had been KO'd by Rashad in the fight before, but it's worth noting that he was beating Rashad and made tactical errors by going after him too much and got caught. On the other hand, Shogun was beating Chuck before delivering the KO shot and looked really sharp in doing so.

Also, you included Shogun's KO of Chuck as a reason that both Chuck and Shogun are not impressive. It's just bad logic - you can say what happened before the fight to back up how impressive a win is, but this is like saying that Arlovski sucks because Fedor KO'd him and now he got KO'd again, even though he was ranked 3rd at the time of the fight.[/quote]

Bold 1)But Shad's style is to be patient and wait, he did the same to forrest, who was also winning prior to getting KO'd. He was also patient vs Machida, but Machida(as is part of my point) is just too good.

Bold 2)It's not poor logic to say a win is unimpressive(as opposed to looking bad) when your opponent is not considered a legit challenge(or in this case over the hill). And because Rua's was the final of the 3 KO's the win carries less weight then the first KO. Take the AA example, Rogers win vs AA is not viewed in the same light as it would have been if the Fedor fight had not happened. Instead it was viewed as a KO over a guy with super soft chin. A good win for Rogers, but are not people lamenting the fact that Fedor is not facing top of the line comp at Strikeforce? Likewise no one would have wanted to see Fedor vs AA if AA had first been KO'd by Rogers. Does anyone want a Fedor AA rematch right now? Timelines need to be considered in these scenario's.