Are people in the US racist?

just came across this amazing speech by an Iraq War veteran. Thought it was very appropriate for this topic....

oggy420 wrote:

just came across this amazing speech by an Iraq War veteran. Thought it was very appropriate for this topic....

I suppose that's one way of looking at things, but if this bleeding heart, dime a dozen liberal asshole is so opposed to "racism", war, and human suffering, why the fuck did he join the military in the first place?

Because he thought he was fighting for a noble cause. He probably fell hook line and sinker for the fear propaganda that the bush administration spewed post 9/11. Then like a lot of Iraq War veterans including some of the most conservative people i know, realized that attacking a country that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks didn't make sense. That killing thousands of innocent civilians and watching his brothers get injured or killed right next to him just so that a few wealthy people could get well.... wealthier, just didn't make sense.

If you want to start attacking veterans of war who put their life on the line for your supposed "freedom" just because they don't follow your same narrow view of thinking, then thats on you. Label them, try to take shots at them, but at the end of the day they walked the walk. They experienced war first hand and realized that it is not all that it is cracked up to be. Especially when you don't even know why you are there in the 1st place.

4445Frank wrote:

There are presently 27 million slaves in the world. That may be more than ever before. (Please do your own research). People are limiting slavery to Whites enslaving Blacks. Old story. We have sexual slavery, Africans enslaving Africans, etc. So while all these millions of people are being enslaved around the world and in some cases, even here in the US, we're stuck with discussing 19th century racial problems? To be honest, both Canada and the US have done a lot to civilize it's people against barbaric acts like slavery. What about those suffering now? If I started to write about it, I'd be on here all day (literally).
(Little note: As far as America is concerned, I think it may be the most competitive country in the world. This denotes what "M.L. King Jr." called "The Drum Major Instinct." The obsession of man to be on top. However competitive institutions like US sports are intergrated like never before. We're not a perfect nation, God knows that. I'm not suggesting that life is fair here. It is NOT. However, given the psychological make up of people here, we're trying like hell to go in the right direction. I think our problem now is "Political correctness." If you really look at it, it poses the danger of putting our race relations to a pre "Civil Rights era."

Black-white issues generally receive more attention here in the US (and maybe some other places) because they resonate more. People still talk about South Africa, but the oppression and violence in Rwanda, Kosovo or Uganda are slowly being tuned out of national consciousness. The entire Indian caste system is pretty bad to me. But black-white speaks to people so those issues are generally talked about more.

I am limiting slavery in the US to whites enslaving blacks/native americans. Yes there are instances of whites enslaving whites and some instances of blacks with slaves, etc. Throughout the world there have been and still are instances of discrimination and oppression based on race, gender class, etc. I am choosing to stay away from those because the conversation gets impossible to manage. Strictly speaking on race in the US:

The US has made huge strides in race relations (our president is multi-raacial, several prominent and powerful figures are of different races, people of every race have more opportunities to succeed), but there are still problems. And the thing about slavery in the US is that it's not such an old story and WE are not necessarily trying to going in the right direction. If YOU are that is great. But as you said, we are a competitive nation and everyone is trying to be on top. The way things work right now a lot of people get pushed to the bottom while others climb to the top.

The issue is not political correctness. The issue is that people are treated differently based solely on their race. The OP showed a scenario where 3 kids stole a bike. Only the black kid seemed suspicious. Why do people think that is? There are plenty of different scenarios where that same phenomenon plays out.


Here are two pretty good bits on race. Take what you want from them:

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Canadians feel there is less "racism" there and that "America is racist" often. I hear it a lot from Canadians. That is just based on the fact America is much larger culturally and populationwise, and has a much deeper history of racial integration with more publicity, and naturally more growing pains. Since WW2 though, America is the archetype nation in the European/Western culture for non-European integration. I find it shocking that a nearly entirely historically white country like Canada can say we're the racist ones when we did all the heavy lifting in terms of civil rights. All Canada did was play along. Europeans often the same thing, which is equally as odd because America is the reason every European nation is racing to see who can mongrelize themselves out of existence first.
You have the McDonald's suburb culture without the civil rights history, must mean you're less racist eh Canada?

I think you make some fairly good points, but this statement seems straight out of a "Nazi Handbook." In all honesty, you probably should do a little less writing and a little more reading.

I honestly believe that American Caucasions (WASPS) are probably the least racist of any so called race of people in the U.S. They're held responsible for everything they do or say. Political Correctness takes the opposite stance of this and looks at America through 20/70 vision. It's almost of as there's a large group of PC people hallucinating, and then there's reality. I think one of the main problems in America is that people who can't think ( I mean this literally) are the most vocal. I'd say that in the last decade, the most racist attack I've ever seen was "The U.S. Media vs. The Duke Lacrosse Boys." Seems like CNN wanted to make a movie and a bunch of mental unfortunates got all the main parts. These type of debates go on and on and on so I'll cease all comment after this post. However, let's try and keep at least a 20 percent realistic view of what's going on.

Quote :

America is the reason every European nation is racing to see who can mongrelize themselves out of existence first.

Find me an ethnic Roman. They no longer exist. And with them went their culture. Greatest people in history, gone.


You'll need to do do a little more reading about the population demographic changes in Europe. In 100 years Europe just won't be full of Europeans anymore.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

America is the reason every European nation is racing to see who can mongrelize themselves out of existence first.

Find me an ethnic Roman. They no longer exist. And with them went their culture. Greatest people in history, gone.


You'll need to do do a little more reading about the population demographic changes in Europe. In 100 years Europe just won't be full of Europeans anymore.

Your ignorance is legendary. Mongrol is equivalent to the terms, Kike, Nigger, Faggot, Cracker, Waps and Greaseball. The correct term is Bi racial and the world has been bi racial for most of it's existence. I won't get into that argument, though I find it strange that you pride yourself on being an intellect and use terms from a pre intergrated South. LOL: Have a good time talking to yourself for the remainder of this thread.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Quote :

America is the reason every European nation is racing to see who can mongrelize themselves out of existence first.

Find me an ethnic Roman. They no longer exist. And with them went their culture. Greatest people in history, gone.


You'll need to do do a little more reading about the population demographic changes in Europe. In 100 years Europe just won't be full of Europeans anymore.

Well I have no interest getting into this topic or this topic this late, but we are the greatest people in history, our country is the greatest civilization the World has ever known.

That is debatable LA. Should I post pictures of Arabian children mutilated from errant US cluster bombs? Ok I know that is cheap, I know the were probably no different. But I don't think the cultural changes America has caused int he West render a net benefit strictly speaking from an ethno-centric perspective either. Not when it's lead to the end of times for us.


Frank, suck my fucking dick. Like I said earlier, I am sure some people would say what I think is racist, even if it's beyond the realm where terms like "racism" are even valid. "Racism" "racist" etc are weasel words. The white race/Western civilization is in it's death-throws according to the numbers. You're getting distracted by a term with a single definition, that is 100% true strictly speaking, simply because of an association of the term to boogymen like "nazis" and "racists".


The rate of miscegenation and immigration in Europe and the US will lead to the white race being a minority, even in white countries, in our own lifetime. Why? Because, as frank proves by being an example, we've been programmed to believe the very mentioning of that fact is racist.

Once France isn't full of French people, it ain't really France no more is it?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

That is debatable LA. Should I post pictures of Arabian children mutilated from errant US cluster bombs? Ok I know that is cheap, I know the were probably no different. But I don't think the cultural changes America has caused int he West render a net benefit strictly speaking from an ethno-centric perspective either. Not when it's lead to the end of times for us.


Frank, suck my fucking dick. Like I said earlier, I am sure some people would say what I think is racist, even if it's beyond the realm where terms like "racism" are even valid. "Racism" "racist" etc are weasel words. The white race/Western civilization is in it's death-throws according to the numbers. You're getting distracted by a term with a single definition, that is 100% true strictly speaking, simply because of an association of the term to boogymen like "nazis" and "racists".


The rate of miscegenation and immigration in Europe and the US will lead to the white race being a minority, even in white countries, in our own lifetime. Why? Because, as frank proves by being an example, we've been programmed to believe the very mentioning of that fact is racist.

Once France isn't full of French people, it ain't really France no more is it?

You're a funny guy. Ok, your fantasy is for America to be all "Caucasion?" What's wrong with the white race (and I don't really believe in race) being a minority?

Frank, do races have the right to exist? Do cultures have the right to maintain their identity?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Frank, do races have the right to exist? Do cultures have the right to maintain their identity?

Only until evolution takes over and we all killed by the new breed of humans called Lesnarians.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Frank, do races have the right to exist? Do cultures have the right to maintain their identity?

Race, in the sence that you're trying to use it here, doesn't exist. See the Human Genome Project or the Scientific American article for more.

As to your other point about France - ask a Native American.

The difference between France and what happened to the Natives is the Natives were forced out of relative existence by a "superior"(not in a "waat pour!!!" sense, but in a technological/developmental sense), where as Europe out of the guilt for their success during the colonial era is filling their nations to the brim with immigrants. It's a conscious self destructive choice.

If I were to ask a Native, they'd all tell you they wished their people stopped the European invasion.


PS. all that "race doesn't exist" crap is pseudo-science invented to make white people not care about the genocide of their race and culture. Check that at the door please.

Ok, fair enough point about the Natives being forced; but European "successes" during colonialism are nothing short of the greatest crimes against humanity ever committed. Ask, oh I dunno... the whole continent of Africa?

And I'm certainly not willing to "check" the science and rational logic behind the FACT that "race" has no actual meaning genetically or biologically; it's simply a social construct.

If you're not willing to accept reasonable factual argument than you're not worth talking to (probably not worth talking to as it is, but I'm bored at the office today).

Race being a social construct is a complete and utter lie invented to counter the very real and very ugly realities in science that leads to scientific racism from people who maliciously view other races. I don't blame the inventors or the people who knowingly propagate the lie. Our current social and cultural framework can't exist if we acknowledge the truth and if we looked at things as they really are. I won't change your opinion on it, or at least I don't care to try to, you'll never, ever change mine. Leave it at that.


I'll simply ask you to look up studies about the rate of recent human evolution, then look at the time frame when our various populations split apart, and also to logically think about the way DNA data can be twisted. We share 98+% of our genome with chimps for example.


There are differences between the races. But acknowledging them would destroy modern American society(post WW2).


As for the "crimes against humanity" aspect, if those "abused" races were capable of sailing across the sea and enslaving Europeans, they would have. Such is the way of man.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The difference between France and what happened to the Natives is the Natives were forced out of relative existence by a "superior"(not in a "waat pour!!!" sense, but in a technological/developmental sense), where as Europe out of the guilt for their success during the colonial era is filling their nations to the brim with immigrants. It's a conscious self destructive choice.

If I were to ask a Native, they'd all tell you they wished their people stopped the European invasion.


PS. all that "race doesn't exist" crap is pseudo-science invented to make white people not care about the genocide of their race and culture. Check that at the door please.

Wolf, I know you've done this before, but give a step by step process as to how this is happening. So far, all you've done is make one "moderate conservative" 100 percent sure that all this talk about conservative thinking equaling racism is nonsense. If I was racist, I would see you as sane. Prove me wrong. My chief complaint about poltical correctness is the effect it has on crime (Hate crime laws) and the problem in the Middle East. That's a very general outlook which I don't plan on discussing in this post. But, I'm interested to hear how you think whites are being stamped out of existence. Do you think they're getting "fucked" out of existence through mixed race marriages? Is this your twisted view?? If so, please get the black guy that took your girlfriend and stop bothering us with what sounds like "Nazi Propoganda." I'm curious as to something else too. When I call you a Nazi, you're insulted. Why is this? Please tell me the difference between your beliefs and theirs.

The historical model is clear. Mass immigration of new cultural and ethnic lines eventually over the course of a couple hundred years destroys the original race. The Romans stopped existing because they mongrelized with the Germanics until the point there wasn't anything Roman left. My beef isn't with other races at all. My beef is with the loss of diversity of all races.

The best analogy off hand is paint. At what point does red paint stop being red paint when a steady drip of green is added? I'm red paint, and I like being red paint.

We can continue this discussion, but may I ask what race and nationality are you?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Race being a social construct is a complete and utter lie invented to counter the very real and very ugly realities in science that leads to scientific racism from people who maliciously view other races. I don't blame the inventors or the people who knowingly propagate the lie. Our current social and cultural framework can't exist if we acknowledge the truth and if we looked at things as they really are. I won't change your opinion on it, or at least I don't care to try to, you'll never, ever change mine. Leave it at that.

I will acknowledge that different races have different attributes. That's to be expected when any species becomes divided and starts to evolve independently of each other. However, those differences have gotten smaller with globalization and transcultural exchanges (different races interacting with each other). I would say after a few generations, Americans (regardless of race) who have grown up together in similar circumstances are more similar than distant relatives of their original race. More similar in habits, customs, intelligence levels, athletic ability and even body types, and not because of interbreeding. Basically, our differences are more geographical than biological (although biology does play a part).

Also, race as a social construct is very real: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology. Phrenology was a social science basically created to prove the racial hierarchy that became prevalent when Europeans colonized everyone (white on top, black on bottom). The way race became defined (Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid, Australoid, Capoid) as created by Europeans set that hierarchy.

Lastly, what is the truth about how things really are? I'm not trying to bait you...just curious on your opinion.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The rate of miscegenation and immigration in Europe and the US will lead to the white race being a minority, even in white countries, in our own lifetime. Why? Because, as frank proves by being an example, we've been programmed to believe the very mentioning of that fact is racist.

Once France isn't full of French people, it ain't really France no more is it?

The US is not a "white country". It is a country founded with ex Brits in power. White/black did not become established until different ethnicities with the same complexion began to blend together in identifying themselves. White's are still in power, but the United States has always been multiracial (The United States being post Revolution). Everyone who is a US citizen...is a US citizen, not just white people.

France will always be full of French people. Even if those people are not white, they are French.

4445Frank wrote:

I honestly believe that American Caucasians (WASPS) are probably the least racist of any so called race of people in the U.S. They're held responsible for everything they do or say. Political Correctness takes the opposite stance of this and looks at America through 20/70 vision. It's almost of as there's a large group of PC people hallucinating, and then there's reality. I think one of the main problems in America is that people who can't think (I mean this literally) are the most vocal. I'd say that in the last decade, the most racist attack I've ever seen was "The U.S. Media vs. The Duke Lacrosse Boys." Seems like CNN wanted to make a movie and a bunch of mental unfortunates got all the main parts. These type of debates go on and on and on so I'll cease all comment after this post. However, let's try and keep at least a 20 percent realistic view of what's going on.

Whites are the most scrutinized for racial missteps. The reason they are held to a higher standard is because they have more advantages. An example would be a normal guy and a handicapped guy talking shit to each other. Most people will say, "Dude, what the fuck? That guy's handicapped, cut him some slack. Don't be an ass". Is that fair? No, because they're both talking shit. Yet it's also unfair that the other guy is handicapped. And at the end of the day, most people would rather be the normal guy.

And this does not take into account all of the things that are said and done privately. WASPS by definition is white, and has largely remained. If no one is racist why haven't other races been added to that group? I'm not saying that other races are more inclusive, but white people have more resources and privileges that they can use to help others. And if the idea of using our power to make things better isn't an American ideal, why are we always fighting these wars?

Ya, ya, the US has never been a "white country" in the strict sense, since other people(natives, livestock) lived here, but 99% of the grunt work was done by whites in establishing everything about this country, unless picking cotton or inventing peanut butter counts.

This place was founded and built by Indo-Europeans. Period. This idea of America held by the majority of the populace hardly existed until the end of WW2.

I probably should have worded that more diplomatically, I am convinced someone will get lost in the fact I said livestock and ignore the fact they were livestock.

[quote="Gumby"]

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Race being a social construct is a complete and utter lie invented to counter the very real and very ugly realities in science that leads to scientific racism from people who maliciously view other races. I don't blame the inventors or the people who knowingly propagate the lie. Our current social and cultural framework can't exist if we acknowledge the truth and if we looked at things as they really are. I won't change your opinion on it, or at least I don't care to try to, you'll never, ever change mine. Leave it at that.

I will acknowledge that different races have different attributes. That's to be expected when any species becomes divided and starts to evolve independently of each other. However, those differences have gotten smaller with globalization and transcultural exchanges (different races interacting with each other). I would say after a few generations, Americans (regardless of race) who have grown up together in similar circumstances are more similar than distant relatives of their original race. More similar in habits, customs, intelligence levels, athletic ability and even body types, and not because of interbreeding. Basically, our differences are more geographical than biological (although biology does play a part).

Also, race as a social construct is very real: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology. Phrenology was a social science basically created to prove the racial hierarchy that became prevalent when Europeans colonized everyone (white on top, black on bottom). The way race became defined (Negroid, Mongoloid, Caucasoid, Australoid, Capoid) as created by Europeans set that hierarchy.

Lastly, what is the truth about how things really are? I'm not trying to bait you...just curious on your opinion.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

The rate of miscegenation and immigration in Europe and the US will lead to the white race being a minority, even in white countries, in our own lifetime. Why? Because, as frank proves by being an example, we've been programmed to believe the very mentioning of that fact is racist.

Once France isn't full of French people, it ain't really France no more is it?

The US is not a "white country". It is a country founded with ex Brits in power. White/black did not become established until different ethnicities with the same complexion began to blend together in identifying themselves. White's are still in power, but the United States has always been multiracial (The United States being post Revolution). Everyone who is a US citizen...is a US citizen, not just white people.

France will always be full of French people. Even if those people are not white, they are French.

4445Frank wrote:

I honestly believe that American Caucasians (WASPS) are probably the least racist of any so called race of people in the U.S. They're held responsible for everything they do or say. Political Correctness takes the opposite stance of this and looks at America through 20/70 vision. It's almost of as there's a large group of PC people hallucinating, and then there's reality. I think one of the main problems in America is that people who can't think (I mean this literally) are the most vocal. I'd say that in the last decade, the most racist attack I've ever seen was "The U.S. Media vs. The Duke Lacrosse Boys." Seems like CNN wanted to make a movie and a bunch of mental unfortunates got all the main parts. These type of debates go on and on and on so I'll cease all comment after this post. However, let's try and keep at least a 20 percent realistic view of what's going on.

Whites are the most scrutinized for racial missteps. The reason they are held to a higher standard is because they have more advantages. An example would be a normal guy and a handicapped guy talking shit to each other. Most people will say, "Dude, what the fuck? That guy's handicapped, cut him some slack. Don't be an ass". Is that fair? No, because they're both talking shit. Yet it's also unfair that the other guy is handicapped. And at the end of the day, most people would rather be the normal guy.

And this does not take into account all of the things that are said and done privately. WASPS by definition is white, and has largely remained. If no one is racist why haven't other races been added to that group? I'm not saying that other races are more inclusive, but white people have more resources and privileges that they can use to help others. And if the idea of using our power to make things better isn't an American ideal, why are we always fighting these wars?[/quote] I love this concept for the Republican Party. All they have to do is take the word "white" out and they look great. (Gumby, that was a good post. I didn't agree with all of it, but it was well written. Thanks)