Muhammad Ali : The Walking Contradiction

where am I going with this???

well hmmm says Joe Frazier is the white mans champ and a puppet of white people, and "works for the enemy"

Frazier has 3 great black trainers , Ali 2 great white ones (I dont care about race but when all 1 person could talk about it is extremely ironic that he was the one with white cornerman constructing his career)

Frazier born in the hunger capital of the america, Ali born in middle class america, yet Joe somehow is an uncle tom white champ and Ali represents black America

Joe Frazier is somehow a stupid ugly fighter who shouldnt represent the world or america, where as Ali was so dumb he failed draft board tests and couldnt represent his nation

Ali against de-segregation , was actually for segregation (bet the 70s hippies didnt know that)

Preaches the teachings of Islam but sleeps with damn near anything walking

I agree. I've never been a big fan.

"He cant write no poems"


COUGH COUGH Bundini Brown

Do Floyd Next!

hahaha that might take me a year to do hahaha

im sorry Frazier loaned him alotta moeny in the 3 year excile, petitioned president and everyone else for Ali and how does Ali repay him?

it was just flat out chicken shit
still a Ali fan and love his in ring stuff but Frazier is my favorite fighter of all time for a reason

Ali always claimed people were racist against him

yet what did he use to torment Joe Frazier?

Racism

"I'll crawl cross tha rang and kiss yo feet if you whip me"

"It was a white mans decision"

what a crock of shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgMkrWGLkJ4&feature=related

12 second mark

Don King is looking like "I know he didnt just call him a gorilla, thats fucked up"

I just don't care very much. I care what these guys do inside the ropes. If I had to like fighters, writers, singers, actors etc who entertain me to enjoy them?

I'd play a lot of solitaire.

But here is some more fodder for you.

The poem The Thrilla in Manila was written by a causal acquaintance of my Dad's named Elliot Anderson. He had some very fringy and second hand connection with the Ali camp. I don't know what it was. He brought it over to the house several months before that fight and showed it to us. It ran several pages. Ali of course only used brief parts of it.

Elliot was melanin challenged shall we say.

damn thats pretty cool marble, I agree dont get me wrong just the purpose of this thread was to point out how often he contradicted himself

like say giving a speech at a KKK rally

Fraziers awesome role model IMO though

Birdofthad wrote:

damn thats pretty cool marble, I agree dont get me wrong just the purpose of this thread was to point out how often he contradicted himself

like say giving a speech at a KKK rally

Fraziers awesome role model IMO though

I think both of these men are admirable and flawed. Joe's inability to forgive is clearly not the way to go.

But two of the very biggest hearts in sports in my lifetime.

Birdofthad wrote:

damn thats pretty cool marble, I agree dont get me wrong just the purpose of this thread was to point out how often he contradicted himself

like say giving a speech at a KKK rally

Fraziers awesome role model IMO though

BTW, look at Ali in your picture. I mean that dude is OUT! What a punch! And yet Ali got up at what? Four?

And then look at Joe. He is PERFECTLY positioned to throw a straight right except Ali is already falling.

agree marble, I think Ali was up at 2 or 3 and clearly up by 4, it was just nuts, then Joe tags him instantly with another big left just a little too high

see I think I identify with Joe cause he handled things the way I probably would (as far as forgiving)

Im not big on Lampley anymore but that quote where he says "Joe Frazier still hates Muhammad Ali to this day............and you would too" is a great quote

as a person ali realy does not deserve many of the tributes given to him..the olympic thing with the tourch and the replacing of his gold metal was a total disgrace..sorry.i did enjoy several of his interviews for intelligence quick wit etc etc..in the ring ive rooted for him a few times in big fights and against him also in big fights..he also was cruel to several fighters and people..his arragance hurt deep down severel peoples feelings.example..willie besminoff a trial horse of the 50s and early sixties was hurt when ali kept refering him as a bum..willie said im a fighter and anyone who tries there best in the ring and has courage to do it should not be called a bum..ali had noo regaurd or respect for other people and there feelings..its just not frazier...im not a fan of his in or out of the ring..folks can hero worship this phoney .i wont.ill recogonize his accomplishments in the ring of course..ill also recognize his hatred his lack of feelings and respect towards others and his manipualtion of things to portray himself as a real nice god fearing man.. thats how i feel..

marbleheadmaui wrote:

I just don't care very much. I care what these guys do inside the ropes. If I had to like fighters, writers, singers, actors etc who entertain me to enjoy them?
I'd play a lot of solitaire.

For the most part, I've never approached any famous people beyond my childhood. I find that most people are not confident enough to take all the praise that comes along with celebrity. I agree with Marble. A word to the wise. These figthers you admire are not cartoon characters but flawed human beings. Also, athletes do not have a reputation for being the smartest people in the world. So, admire them from a far. / As far as Ali is concerned, I have to say the following. I regret that he is being attacked by certain people (Bird, dmar, I'm not including you.) when he has the inability to speak up for himself. Nobody respects Joe Frazier more than I do, but the time to talk all this stuff was in the 70's. That's mostly directed towards HBO and their documentaries on the Ali - Frazier rivalry, which have formed most of the thinking among those who were not there to actually witness the 3 wars between those two great figthers.

dmar5143 wrote:

as a person ali realy does not deserve many of the tributes given to him..the olympic thing with the tourch and the replacing of his gold metal was a total disgrace..sorry.i did enjoy several of his interviews for intelligence quick wit etc etc..in the ring ive rooted for him a few times in big fights and against him also in big fights..he also was cruel to several fighters and people..his arragance hurt deep down severel peoples feelings.example..willie besminoff a trial horse of the 50s and early sixties was hurt when ali kept refering him as a bum..willie said im a fighter and anyone who tries there best in the ring and has courage to do it should not be called a bum..ali had noo regaurd or respect for other people and there feelings..its just not frazier...im not a fan of his in or out of the ring..folks can hero worship this phoney .i wont.ill recogonize his accomplishments in the ring of course..ill also recognize his hatred his lack of feelings and respect towards others and his manipualtion of things to portray himself as a real nice god fearing man.. thats how i feel..

People do have feelings and Ali was not sensitive to them at all. I admit, I try to speak up for him, however, he was self centered to the point of being painfully obnoxious. Problem was, he was also funny and charming at times. His outward persona was complex. My reactions to him are a little complex as well. I'll say this, dmar. I think he started the arrogant behavior seen in certain athletes which I think is the most annoying thing in sports. It should be considered that he was a child of the 60's, however that doesn't explain everything.

Ali had his flaws like any other person. At the end of the day he was a man of principles who passed on money and fame in the prime of his career to stand up for what be believed. Over the years he's clearly distanced himself from the Nation of Islam and their militancy and corruption (calling for segregation, etc. were never Ali's ideas); and he remains one of the best bridges to moderate muslims the Western world has.

The reason he was and is so well loved stems from him being principled, charismatic, articulate and funny; while also being a great boxer. Sure he talked trash; he was ahead of his time, and people in the 60s and 70s had no idea how to react to that. In retrospect all of that was done with a wink and nod to "Gorgeous George" and the "heel" wrestling caricatures Ali drew on for inspiration.

Boxing is sport, but also entertainment. Few understood that as well as Ali. His media savvy was incredible for that day and age. "Sure I know where Vietnam is - it's on TV". Brilliant.

Ali's impact on sports and society is probably greater than any other athlete. He is my hero.

P.S. I can't add any other replies to the Hopkins thread where we were talking about Canada 'cause my work internet filter blocks the word "cum" :LOL:

Tobe06 wrote:

Ali had his flaws like any other person. At the end of the day he was a man of principles who passed on money and fame in the prime of his career to stand up for what be believed. Over the years he's clearly distanced himself from the Nation of Islam and their militancy and corruption (calling for segregation, etc. were never Ali's ideas); and he remains one of the best bridges to moderate muslims the Western world has.

The reason he was and is so well loved stems from him being principled, charismatic, articulate and funny; while also being a great boxer. Sure he talked trash; he was ahead of his time, and people in the 60s and 70s had no idea how to react to that. In retrospect all of that was done with a wink and nod to "Gorgeous George" and the "heel" wresting caricatures Ali drew on for inspiration.

Boxing is sport, but also entertainment. Few understood that as well as Ali. His media savvy was incredible for that day and age. "Sure I know where Vietnam is - it's on TV". Brilliant.

Ali's impact on sports and society is probably greater than any other athlete. He is my hero.

Good post, Tobe. How many guys who haven't fought in 30 years still generate so many different emotions out of people in general? I can't think of one. My opinion? He was the most eccentric artist I've ever seen. Take him as you want him, however that's what he was. Everything I've seen from him and read from his supporters and detractors points to that.

dmar, Bird...I agree with both of you. Ali/Clay was a great great fighter, but not such a good person. The revisionist history re: him as a martyr is a bit much to take. The canonization after he's gone will likely sicken me.

Tobe06 wrote:

Ali had his flaws like any other person. At the end of the day he was a man of principles who passed on money and fame in the prime of his career to stand up for what be believed. Over the years he's clearly distanced himself from the Nation of Islam and their militancy and corruption (calling for segregation, etc. were never Ali's ideas); and he remains one of the best bridges to moderate muslims the Western world has.

The reason he was and is so well loved stems from him being principled, charismatic, articulate and funny; while also being a great boxer. Sure he talked trash; he was ahead of his time, and people in the 60s and 70s had no idea how to react to that. In retrospect all of that was done with a wink and nod to "Gorgeous George" and the "heel" wrestling caricatures Ali drew on for inspiration.

Boxing is sport, but also entertainment. Few understood that as well as Ali. His media savvy was incredible for that day and age. "Sure I know where Vietnam is - it's on TV". Brilliant.

Ali's impact on sports and society is probably greater than any other athlete. He is my hero.

go read some books Tobe, Ray Robinson was there when Muhammad Ali was crying saying they (Nation of Islam, mainly elijah Muhammad, another draft dodger) wont let me go fight.

Ali wasnt doing this for principle, he knew he would likely be killed by the Nation if he didnt listen to them

notice the Nation of Islam wanted nothing to do with Ali until he beat Sonny Liston

he was their ultimate pawn

make no mistake about it

when Don King has a look that says, "whoa did he just say what I think he said", then you know you've gone too far.