THE GREAT WHAT IFS

... and I thought I had an imagination. Good read, BL, but you Hagler fans need to bring closure to Leonard's great victory over "The Marvelous One." The Sugar Man did it that night.

What if, Tony Ayala Jr. never broke and entered in an innocent lady's house and raped at knife point on her birthday? What if Mike Tyson never raped Desiree Washington and probably countless other girls? This means these two sick fucks would've never been born and the world would've been a much better place.

4445Frank wrote:

What if, Tony Ayala Jr. never broke and entered in an innocent lady's house and raped at knife point on her birthday? What if Mike Tyson never raped Desiree Washington and probably countless other girls? This means these two sick fucks would've never been born and the world would've been a much better place.

...lol noo they would of continued as a serial type rapist untill exposed..

What if Joe Calzaghe was more courageous during his career
Joe wouldn't have retired undefeated but he would have added Glen Johnson to his resume and lost a close decisions to prime Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones.

WinstonSmith wrote:

Nat Fleischer couldn't have done it better.As the biggest Hagler fan out there I'm not sure a post Mugabi Hagler would have pulled it off.I think Marvin knew after the Leonard fight that he had little left.Watch how bad he was looping his punches against Mugabi.He also walked straight into an uppercut that completely snapped his head back.That would never have happened to an 81 version of Marvin.The funny thing about that uppercut was the fact Mugabi stated years later that when Marvin shook that off he knew he could not win the fight.Hagler has said Mugabi and Hart hit harder than Hearns did. Great post!

Marvin stole a lot of very good fighters hearts with that chin of his. I think it is the best in 160 pound history and one of the best of all-time. Thing was, in his prime, almost nobody knew how GOOD Marvins chin was because nobody was reaching it!

4445Frank wrote:

... and I thought I had an imagination. Good read, BL, but you Hagler fans need to bring closure to Leonard's great victory over "The Marvelous One." The Sugar Man did it that night.

I wont do it. Ill never say that Lewis deserved the decision in the re-match with Evander or that Tyson was unbeatable in his prime either because I simply do not belive it to be true.

What if Uncle Cotto is present when Margarito's hands are being wrapped and notices something funny? A de-fanged Margarito is unable to start coming back the second half of the fight and loses a lopsided UD or possible TKO. Cotto then goes on to destroy Oscar at 147, and becomes the mainstream star Manny became. He follows that up with destroying Ricky, leading up to a mega fight with Floyd. He may even beat him.

Manny in turn, stays at 135, finds himself in another life-or-death struggle with JMM. He remains one of the top attractions in boxing, but never reaches the heights he currently resides in.

Margo is disgraced a year earlier. Mosely never gets another super fight following his poor performance against Mayorga.

Seems like a lot, but it could have happened.

Agreed.

boxinglawyer wrote:

What if Hagler had beaten Leonard? If he got the decision he rightfully deserved or if he makes no tactical error by boxing orthodox for three rounds and stops a fading Leonard in the 9th does not really matter. He was already in preliminary talks with Hearns for a re-match. The plan was for Hagler to fight a Mega-Fight with Hearns and tie Monzons record for title defenses and retire. How much fun would that have been? Here is my opinion. Hearns, having learned from the first fight, would be on his bike from round one. Hagler, older and slower, would have had more trouble catching up. The first three rounds would see Marvin slowly closing the distance and landing almost exclusively to the body. Hearns would be jabbing and snaking that right hand out there on occasion while piling up points. between the 3rd and 4th the petronelli's would be telling Hagler he had to step it up and start doing damage. Marvin would begin to press forward harder and with a little more abandon. He lands a little more, but still not enough to take the round. In the fifth round with 30 seconds left it happens. Hearns, a couple years more accustomed to the wieght, bigger and stronger too, lands a sneaky left hook and a booming right hand on the hard-charging champion and Hagler hits the deck!!!!!!! Up quickly at a count of 3, Hagler waves his glove to his corner in disgust and attempts to convince the referee that he slipped. But he and Hearns both know the truth, he got clocked and dropped. Hearns jumps on Marvin at the end of the 8 count an both guys throw wildley. Hagler takes a step back after a Hearns double hook and a second right hand from Hearns crashes home with authority. Marvin clinches briefly before the bell. The crowd senses the shift and the arena is rockin. The HBO announcers Larry Merchant, Jim Lampley, and Ray Leonard check with Harold Lederman between rounds and confirm thier suspicions. Hagler is behind in the fight (49-44). Almost too far behind to catch-up at this point. Marvin seems uncharacteristically cautious to start the 6th round and Hearns begins to advance behind his piston-like jab. Marvin is giving ground slowly and Hearns is feeding off the crowd who takes up a chant of "Hit-Man, Hit-Man!" as he has another good round. Marvin Sneers between rounds on his stool at the crowd that has turned on him. Petronelli whispers in his ear, "The mob only loves winners Marvin". A visible change comes over Marvin and he leaps off his stool fixing Hearns with a glare right out of the 80's Heydey of Marvelous. The 7th round goes down in the history books as Hagler Hearns 1 part two. Marvin is full steam ahead and Hearns, off his bike again, meets him at ring center and the fight is ON!! Thunderous body shots from Marvin draw a grimace from Hearns and Steward is screaming at Tommy to "MOVE". Hearns clinches, and nods to Steward at the break. He goes back to his bike but Hagler is charging ahead with wild abandon now. Just like in the 5th round, Hearns rocks back on his trailing foot before suddenly leaping forward with a monster right hand and Hagler walks right into it! Unlike the 5th round though, Hagler doesnt go down. He doesnt even wobble. This time, Hagler pumps a right upper-hook into Hearns body and lands a crunching over-hand left to the temple of Hearns. Hearns collapses into Marvin and clinches as thier heads come together. When they seperate, Hearns is sporting a 1 inch gash on the right side of his cheek, courtesy of Marvins dome. Marvin continues the attack until the bell as Hearns manfully tries to land something hurtful to get Marvin off. The crowd is roaring so loud both corners have trouble giving insruction to thier men.
Marvin shifts gears unexpectedly in the 8th. Seemingly having Hearns in trouble he suddenly start jabbing and slows his attack. Hearns accepts the rest and retreats, holding without shame everytime Marvin closes the distance. "Marvins getting tired" Leonard remarks to Lampley. "He might be finally running out of gas". "That would be a suprise if, indeed, he is. The indefatiguable Hagler has made a career out of supreme conditioning" Lampley replies. "Marvin seemed a bit tired against you in the 9th round Ray before he was able to close the fight out", "could it be the same thing here? Is he perhaps marshalling his forces?" "Its possible Jim, but its not like Marvin to let anyone off the hook and Tommy looked like he was in trouble at the end of the last round" "Indeed, if ever anyone looked to be a fish on a hook, it was Hearns in that 7th round".
Round 9 begins slowly as both men spend the first minute of the round posturing and looking for position. Marvin finds it first as he steps inside a jab from Hearns and pumps both fists to Hearns body. He draws a warning for a border-line body shot and Marvin glances briefly at referee Frank Cappucino before resuming his attack. It seems obvious that Hagler took a round off to catch a second wind as he steps the pace back up. Hearns lands a solid jab with 15 seconds left and Hagler responds with a furious two-fisted barrage that lands only one punch solidly but still sends Hearns skittering along the ropes as the bell rings.
Round 10 is delayed as Steward is slow leaving the ring and then fiegns difficulty finding Hearns mouthpiece before (intentionally?) dropping it and rinsing it. Hagler fumes at the delay and complains to Cappucino to "get on with it". When the referee waves them back together Hearns stuns the crowd and Hagler by attacking with both hands and wild abandon! Hagler steps back and a Hearns right hand crashes into his head. Marvin tries to clinch but Tommy leverages both hands under his chin and pushes him off. Hagler ducks under a right hand but takes a viscious hook to the body! An uppercut from Hearns just misses the Hagler chin and a counter right hook from Hagler drops him to one knee. Hearns grins from one knee at Hagler through the 8 count and then waves him in as he rises. Marvin obliges and the crowd reaches a deafening crescendo as the two men trade bomb for bomb over the next thirty seconds. A right hand from Hearns snaps Marvins head back but the counter overhand left from Marvin crumples Hearns to the canvas for a 10 count. The end comes suddenly just as the crowd begins to chant "Marvelous!". Hagler strides around the ring pumping his arms triumphantly to the rythm of the chant, a smile that seems to large and too out of place on his normally scowling face, beaming to the very top of the arena! After the fight, Marvin announces his retirement. End of the legacy.

Damn was THAT fun!

NJBeatdown86 wrote:

What if Uncle Cotto is present when Margarito's hands are being wrapped and notices something funny? A de-fanged Margarito is unable to start coming back the second half of the fight and loses a lopsided UD or possible TKO. Cotto then goes on to destroy Oscar at 147, and becomes the mainstream star Manny became. He follows that up with destroying Ricky, leading up to a mega fight with Floyd. He may even beat him.

Manny in turn, stays at 135, finds himself in another life-or-death struggle with JMM. He remains one of the top attractions in boxing, but never reaches the heights he currently resides in.

Margo is disgraced a year earlier. Mosely never gets another super fight following his poor performance against Mayorga.

Seems like a lot, but it could have happened.

shit load of waht ifs in there

What if Richard Steele never stopped the Taylor vs Chavez fight??? Taylor was robbed outta the biggest win of his career that night and was never the same fighter afterwards.

Don King probably has the judges paid off anyway

That wouldnt be surprising!!!

timthebim wrote:

What if Richard Steele never stopped the Taylor vs Chavez fight??? Taylor was robbed outta the biggest win of his career that night and was never the same fighter afterwards.

Taylor wasn't robbed of anything. Steele did a fine job that night.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

timthebim wrote:

What if Richard Steele never stopped the Taylor vs Chavez fight??? Taylor was robbed outta the biggest win of his career that night and was never the same fighter afterwards.

Taylor wasn't robbed of anything. Steele did a fine job that night.

Totally disagree with u!!! Taylor deserved that fight that night and it was taken from by a ref in my opion.

boxinglawyer wrote:

WinstonSmith wrote:

Nat Fleischer couldn't have done it better.As the biggest Hagler fan out there I'm not sure a post Mugabi Hagler would have pulled it off.I think Marvin knew after the Leonard fight that he had little left.Watch how bad he was looping his punches against Mugabi.He also walked straight into an uppercut that completely snapped his head back.That would never have happened to an 81 version of Marvin.The funny thing about that uppercut was the fact Mugabi stated years later that when Marvin shook that off he knew he could not win the fight.Hagler has said Mugabi and Hart hit harder than Hearns did. Great post!

Marvin stole a lot of very good fighters hearts with that chin of his. I think it is the best in 160 pound history and one of the best of all-time. Thing was, in his prime, almost nobody knew how GOOD Marvins chin was because nobody was reaching it!

Agreed. I never saw a chin in the MW division like Hagler’s. His pain threshold was incredible. I recall watching a sparring session where a sparring partner accidently elbowed him and broke his nose. He kept going like absolutely nothing happened. I mean, you would never suspect he was in any type of pain. Marvin was the probably the most perfect fighter I ever saw. Fundamentally, he was absolutely flawless.

boxinglawyer wrote:

4445Frank wrote:

... and I thought I had an imagination. Good read, BL, but you Hagler fans need to bring closure to Leonard's great victory over "The Marvelous One." The Sugar Man did it that night.

I wont do it. Ill never say that Lewis deserved the decision in the re-match with Evander or that Tyson was unbeatable in his prime either because I simply do not belive it to be true.

Well, I'm with you on the other two opinions. Tyson was very beatable in his prime and Evander won the 2nd Lewis fight according to my scorecard. I'll tell ya what BL. When we have time, you and I need to go on You Tube and score that Leonard fight. I'm curious as to where we lose each other on this one. No doubt. we'll both score the first 4 rounds for Ray so we can skip those if you like. I'm interested in the other rounds. We're both busy. Just let me know. By the way, Hagler is one of the 3 top MWs in history in my judgement, if not the top. I never thought the Leonard fight threatened that status.

timthebim wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

timthebim wrote:

What if Richard Steele never stopped the Taylor vs Chavez fight??? Taylor was robbed outta the biggest win of his career that night and was never the same fighter afterwards.

Taylor wasn't robbed of anything. Steele did a fine job that night.

Totally disagree with u!!! Taylor deserved that fight that night and it was taken from by a ref in my opion.

Watching it as it happened I was SCREAMING at the TV for Steele to stop it. Meldricks neck was completely gone and one more shot may have literally killed him. And I KNEW how much time was left.

By the time Steele would have gotten outta the way JCC wouldnt have had time to hit him again. This is just 1 of those things we will never change each others mind on I bet LOL.

marbleheadmaui wrote:

timthebim wrote:

marbleheadmaui wrote:

timthebim wrote:

What if Richard Steele never stopped the Taylor vs Chavez fight??? Taylor was robbed outta the biggest win of his career that night and was never the same fighter afterwards.

Taylor wasn't robbed of anything. Steele did a fine job that night.

Totally disagree with u!!! Taylor deserved that fight that night and it was taken from by a ref in my opion.

Watching it as it happened I was SCREAMING at the TV for Steele to stop it. Meldricks neck was completely gone and one more shot may have literally killed him. And I KNEW how much time was left.

Richard did what he was supposed to do. Took me a lot of years to accept it, but he did the right thing. I was heartbroken after that fight.

People want to blame Steele but Lou Duva deserves far more blame than anyone. From telling him he needed to go out and win the 12th to distracting Meldrick after the knockdown prior to the stoppage.

And to answer the "What if??"...... Meldrick comes out of that just as damaged either way. So win or lose, he's never the same fighter again. He had it beaten out of him that night.