Angelo Dundee to StrikeForce "Your Blowin It Kid!" : SF Wants Lashley vs Batista PPV

If signed, Bautista’s debut will almost assuredly come against fellow former pro wrestler Bobby Lashley. It’s a fight that makes a lot of sense to Strikeforce officials, and they’re talking up the possibility of putting the bout on the first-ever Strikeforce pay per view card.

"That’s not a free television bout. That’s a pay per view fight," said Strikeforce matchmaker Rich Chou. "You can’t give away everything for free."

Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker echoed the sentiments. "Absolutely. That’s a pay per view fight. I believe we put on some great matchups for the hardcore fans and the casual fans in general. When you tune in to a Strikeforce fight, you know you’re going to see some great fights," Coker told Heavy.com. "But every once in awhile, when you get a chance to throw in a fight like this one that’s just fun to watch? Why not?"

I have absolutely no problem with Lashley/Batista. Bobby has made it clear that being a top fighter and taking on challenging fights is not something he plans on doing. So, if you're Strikeforce you should absolutely try to make a fight with Dave Batista happen since it's one of the few fights you can get out of Lashley that will do anything business-wise.

My problem is with saying that this is a fight you can't put on Showtime. You can put a guy generally regarded as the best in the planet fighting top ten opposition on CBS and Showtime but you must charge for one of the biggest WWE bombs in recent history in Lashley against a debuting Batista in his 40's with a history of injury problems? In his time in the WWE Batista tore his right triceps, then re-tore it, then tore it again, tore a back muscle, tore his hamstring, and tore his left bicep. I have my doubts that should Batista ever sign a Strikeforce deal that he could make it through a full camp without tearing a muscle since, for some reason, he seems to rip like paper. One of those triceps tears came while he was jogging with his wife. How he makes it through a full training camp doing all the cardio he needs to do and learning how to defend on the ground without tearing something (and remember, the guy is 41) is beyond me.

There is, of course, a natural curiosity that will lead some people to order a PPV with these two men clashing. The question is, how big of a draw are they? Cage Side Seats has compiled some WWE pay-per-view info on both men that can be seen here:

Lashley was also in the money drawing match (against Umaga) at Wrestlemania 23 (a WWE high of 1.2 million buys) a few months later, but the actual draws were Donald Trump (represented by Lashley) and Vince McMahon (represented by Umaga) putting their hair at stake. His next main event was challenging for John Cena's WWE Title a few months after that at The Great American Bash, the first WWE PPV after the Benoit murder/suicide. With a fresh match on top, the show drew a respectable 229,000 buys, slightly up from the previous year's 227,000 and slightly down from the previous month's Vengeance: Night of Champions (the show where Benoit no-showed, because unbeknownst to anyone, he was dead). Shortly after that, Lashley was injured, and when he was due to come back, he got an unconditional release from the WWE (in terms of where he could go, not what he could talk about, as it's believed that he left because he was uncomfortable with the racial tension in the company and was silenced from talking about it publicly as one of the terms of his release), When he eventually showed up in TNA, he didn't pop their PPV buys at all.

Emphasis mine.

I think that last sentence says a lot about Bobby Lashley's drawing power right now. He didn't bring new viewers or interest to TNA upon his arrival at which point he was already competing in MMA and had his WWE history behind him. We know the crossover traffic between MMA and pro-wrestling is mostly one way (pro-wrestling fans will crossover into MMA much easier than the other way around) so it isn't a complete reflection of how Lashley would do as an MMA PPV draw but it does show that he isn't moving the needle in terms of the wrestling audience so why would that audience pay to watch him fight? Add to that the fact that he has done nothing to convince MMA fans that he is worth their dollar either and it's not exactly a good sign that he draws anything meaningful.

How about Batista as a draw? Again we turn to Cage Side Seats:

He eventually cooled off, but for most of 2005, WWE PPVs were outdrawing the previous year's event, sometimes dramatically. Most notably, Vengeance, headlined by the Batista-Triple H feud-ending Hell in a Cell match, pulled in around 440,000 buys. The show had drawn about 250,000 the previous year (with Chris Benoit vs Triple H on top) and drew about 340,000 the following year (with Rob Van Dam vs Edge, John Cena vs Sabu, and the reuniting DX vs The Spirit Squad as the top matches). He was also in one of the two title matches (vs The Undertaker for the first time) at the aforementioned Wrestlemania 23.

Batista definitely has the potential to draw. If Strike Force is going to try to run PPVs, then business-wise, this is probably the best fight to headline with.


I violently disagree with the last paragraph there. Is this a fight that maybe does a little bit of business on shear freakish curiosity? Yes. But where do you go from there? Do you put the winner in against a Werdum or Overeem? That would be murder. It's a PPV with no long term gain. This would be a one-off event appealing to the worst our sport has to offer. A couple of aging former pro wrestlers who have not proven anything in the sport clashing on PPV while Strikeforce, who has shown no true ability to create stars, likely wastes any views they get by not properly utilizing any true talent.

When Herschel Walker, a man with far more cultural currency in the sports world than either of these two men, got Strikeforce a nice bump in attention what did they do with it? Nothing. As much as I like the cards they put on CBS and Showtime, this is not a promotion that understands how to promote.

Dynamite!! USA pulled in 35,000 PPV buys when they had Brock Lesnar, a major WWE star during his run, headline. It took the UFC's promotional power and legitimate fights to make Lesnar into the crossover MMA star that he is now. It isn't as easy as just sticking a guy in the cage and letting the money roll in.

I'm sure there is something more going on that is forcing Strikeforce to push to fill out a card with fights they think will draw. But this is a fight that is almost certainly to be of the lowest quality and will not draw the eyeballs that Strikeforce thinks it will when they write it off as not being a "free TV" fight

from bloodyelbow.com

bloodyelbows guess at how the card would fill out

Main Event: Bobby Lashley vs. Dave Batista

Lashley on his own isn't a proven draw. But as we've seen with Wrestlemania 23, he's capable of creating massive interest with the right matchup. This is that matchup. No one knows what Batista might bring to the game. He's a neophyte for sure, untrained and unskilled. But he's an excellent athlete, like most WWE stars. More importantly? He knows how to sell a fight.

There's little doubt that WWE fans have helped create the UFC boom. The fans left over from WWE RAW fueled The Ultimate Fighter's success and Brock Lesnar was an immediate factor at the box office for the UFC. Now we all know that Lesnar has succeeded in the cage because of his stellar amateur wrestling background and his work ethic. But that's largely irrelevant. If you're Strikeforce, you need to get on the radar and draw eyeballs. That's the part Batista and Lashley should be able to do and do well.

Co-Main Event: Fedor Emelianenko vs. Fabricio Werdum

At Bloody Elbow we can tell you first hand the name Fedor Emelianenko means something. Behind Brock Lesnar, it's probably the best name in the industry at drawing viewers to your site and can keep hardcore fans engaged in argument for hours. Adding Fedor to the card is perfect; Lashley and Batista can draw in a new contingent of WWE fans, while Fedor and Werdum rematch one of the most memorable upsets of all-time. I think this fight is a better fit than either man against the untested (at the box office) Alistair Overeem. Fans in the United States haven't gotten to know Overeem yet. We'll introduce him to the world on the undercard in a highlight package.

145 Pound Women's Title: Cyborg Santos vs. Erin Toughill

With due respect to Toughill, it doesn't matter so much who fills this slot against Cyborg. Cindy Dandois or another unknown face will do nicely as well. Women's MMA will immediately differentiate the Strikeforce product from the UFC and Cyborg never disappoints. Plus, unlike most Strikeforce cards, they can use this megacard to build another fight.

Gina Carano Tuneup Fight

If Strikeforce is serious about making this work, they need to come with guns blazing. Bringing Carano back sends a signal that this card is something worth watching. And, while you can't count on the MMA gods to cooperate, it is about time Strikeforce started building future main event on their undercard. This is one way to do it.

Dan Henderson vs. Gegard Moussassi

Coming off a devastating loss to Jake Shields, Henderson can fight at his preferred weight in a matchup he should likely win. The winner can fight Muhammed Lawal who should be positioned ringside.

Robbie Lawler vs. Melvin Manhoef II

It's always nice to start things off with a bang, isn't it?

That's a collection of matchups that I think can sell. Can it do well enough to make up the cost of all that name talent? That's the real question and the conundrum for anyone who isn't the UFC trying to enter the PPV market. There is enough talent out there outside of Zuffa's grasp to draw 100-200,000 PPV buys. But it's expensive talent, making the show cost prohibitive. My advice to Strikeforce is not to do it. Build some talent on your Showtime shows. Create an organic build to a fight fans care about. Let things percolate a bit. Some of the most successful cards of all time for the UFC have been the result of issues that were allowed to linger a bit. Your time will come. But if you have to do PPV now? Here is how it should happen.

I would definitely order that card!

Here ya go SF! I will be your Joe Silva

Overeem vs Lashley for the title. Overeem murders a huge name out of the sport.
Hershal vs Batista- Walker murders a huge name out of the sport
Kennedy vs Jacare for the MW title all hardcore fans, WWE fans, casual fans get to see this while waiting on the HW match up's
Cung Le vs an opponent of his choice- keeping it real
Del Rasario vs Ron Sparks- Give two up and comers a name after one beats the other.

who?

oggy420 wrote:

who?

me or the thread?

who the fuck is angelo Dundee? Is that Batista? Im fucking confused but something tells me the fighters mentioned in this thread aren't wort trying to figure it out!

oggy420 wrote:

who the fuck is angelo Dundee? Is that Batista? Im fucking confused but something tells me the fighters mentioned in this thread aren't wort trying to figure it out!

I think Dundee is a boxing coach and Batista's name is Dave Batista. I found out his name was Dave last week on here. I hope they see my card so he and Lashley can get exposed so we don't have to hear their names anymore. SF better do something like what I said and get some other fighters name popular off of the two WWE rejects. Lash is decent and has potential, but BATISTA IS A COMPLETE JOKE!

oggy420 wrote:

who the fuck is angelo Dundee? Is that Batista? Im fucking confused but something tells me the fighters mentioned in this thread aren't wort trying to figure it out!

Angelo Dundee is one of the greatest boxing trainers to ever live, he was Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard's trainer.

"You're blowing it, son! You're blowing it!" Is the infamous line Dundee said to Ray during the first Thomas Hearns fight.

Even implying that Lashely vs Batista will head SF's 1st ppv card is disturbing.

oggy420 wrote:

who the fuck is angelo Dundee? Is that Batista? Im fucking confused but something tells me the fighters mentioned in this thread aren't wort trying to figure it out!

Angelo Dundee was one of the best boxing trainers of all time, Ali, Leonard and Foreman all used him

when Leonard was fighting Thomas Hearns Dundee famously said "Your blowin it kid, your blowin it"

Mismatch or work one of the 2. Batista is not even a good wrestler much less MMA fighter. He has what 2 days training at Ceasar Gracies.

if they signBatista they better be smart enough to make it a 1 fight deal cause he will get his ass kicked and be done

I think Strikeforce should put them on a card on CBS just to get some hype. PPV for those two would be the dumbest decision in the history of MMA. It just doesn't make any sence to do that and I can't fathom why a Multimillion dollar company would not know what the outcome would be.

BATISTA is a hype tool! One fight and that is it so Good call bird!

Well, if they put on a Lashley vs. Batista PPV then the undercard better be stacked to the rim...Batista would be Lashley's weakest opponent yet.

Batista vs Lashley would be full on freakshow, but this is too much money to leave on the table. I wouldn't give a fuck about this fight at all but I can't fault Strikeforce for putting this on.

hopefully they would stack the card

and am i the only one who remembers Frank Shamrock vs Nate Diaz being PPV?

you mean Frank vs Nick and that was a cbs card i think

oggy420 wrote:

you mean Frank vs Nick and that was a cbs card i think

It was on Showtime.

SF is looking really pathetic if they make this fight, let alone a ppv.

oggy420 wrote:

SF is looking really pathetic if they make this fight, let alone a ppv.

Undertaker vs Shaq as the co-main event.

i'd be more interested in that match actually lol

oggy420 wrote:

i'd be more interested in that match actually lol

how about a tag team? lol