Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
Subject: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:41 pm
What do you think about Holyfield headbutting Tyson in both fights? I watched Tyson last night and it got me thinking about what Boxing fans think? The documentary only proved more to me about how fucking crazy Tyson really is. Still my favorite boxer when the bell rings.
gomez1012 Black Belt
Posts : 3011 Join date : 2010-05-26 Location : Bay Area
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:23 pm
Its part of the game
Still see it w/fighters like Bradley and Ward
But your right, Tyson's description of blacking out and getting seriously pissed made me LOL, like damn, this fool is NUTS
Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:50 pm
Holyfield always used his head, what Mike really didnt want to admit was that Holyfield bullied him the entire 11 rounds of their first fight and was doing the same in the rematch
hardcoreBEE24 Purple Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Thomas Hearns Posts : 1285 Join date : 2009-07-16 Location : Massapequa Park, NY
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:02 pm
Birdofthad wrote:
Holyfield always used his head, what Mike really didnt want to admit was that Holyfield bullied him the entire 11 rounds of their first fight and was doing the same in the rematch
I don't think anyone ever wants to admit that. Holyfield had Mike's number. Mike complains about butts but never mentions the fact that he elbowed the shit of most of his opponents.
One obvious example:
acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:42 pm
To me it looked like Mike and Evander were going for the headbutt and Evander got lower. He did bully Tyson and Tyson couldn't handle it.
acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:43 pm
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
Birdofthad wrote:
Holyfield always used his head, what Mike really didnt want to admit was that Holyfield bullied him the entire 11 rounds of their first fight and was doing the same in the rematch
I don't think anyone ever wants to admit that. Holyfield had Mike's number. Mike complains about butts but never mentions the fact that he elbowed the shit of most of his opponents.
One obvious example:
That bow should've dropped Frank.
captainanddew Brown Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ricky Burns Posts : 2946 Join date : 2010-05-22 Age : 47 Location : Richmond, Virginia
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:46 pm
Tyson the classic bully. Fine as long as he was bullying guys, but self-destructs as soon as he can't impose his will on you.
Tyson began going downhill before Buster took him out. He had gotten rid of all the people around him (management, trainer, etc...), that cared about him at all, and replaced them with sychophants.
Hopefully Tyson is beginning to find some peace in his retirement.
4445Frank Purple Belt
Posts : 1517 Join date : 2010-04-09
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:47 pm
captainanddew wrote:
Tyson the classic bully. Fine as long as he was bullying guys, but self-destructs as soon as he can't impose his will on you.
Tyson began going downhill before Buster took him out. He had gotten rid of all the people around him (management, trainer, etc...), that cared about him at all, and replaced them with sychophants.
Hopefully Tyson is beginning to find some peace in his retirement.
After making everyone elses life hell? I'm not a big fan of Teddy Atlas, but look at some of things he has to say about Mike Tyson. I promise you, I wouldn't ask you to look in anyone elses past, (Not even Sonny Liston) with the exception being Tony Ayala.
RUM CAPITAL Blue Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Carlos Ortiz,Henry Armstrong and Wilfredo Gomez Posts : 770 Join date : 2010-07-10 Location : Massachusetts
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:24 pm
didn't rahman have another head growing from his forehead as a result from a holyfield headbutt? i mean holyfield mastered the art of the headbutt. consequently the rahman fight was stopped due to that lump holyfield gave him from a headbutt.
Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:30 am
hardcoreBEE24 wrote:
Birdofthad wrote:
Holyfield always used his head, what Mike really didnt want to admit was that Holyfield bullied him the entire 11 rounds of their first fight and was doing the same in the rematch
I don't think anyone ever wants to admit that. Holyfield had Mike's number. Mike complains about butts but never mentions the fact that he elbowed the shit of most of his opponents.
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:32 am
4445Frank Purple Belt
Posts : 1517 Join date : 2010-04-09
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:11 am
Honestly, it didn't bother me that Evander butted Tyson. Tyson threw headbutts, elbows and low blows religiously, but was never as clever as Holyfield when it came to dirt. Evander would throw a left hook and follow through with his head. In other words, it was a one - two punch that ended with Evander's giant, hard as a diamond head landing in the corner of your eye. I didn't like this, however, against a dirty fighter like Mike, it was necessary. He was just out bullying the bully. Unfortunately, Evander made this type of fighting a part of his career.
victor879 Yellow Belt
Posts : 179 Join date : 2010-07-06
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:45 am
Excellent points by everybody here and I just wanted to add one more thing.
The major issue that I felt was a problem for Tyson when he fought Holyfield was his hand speed. Holyfield wasn't a natural HW and had quick hands for the division. I always felt Tyson fed on those big guys who were slower. Tyson usually always had the hand speed advantage against a heavyweight fighter. I can't think of a single fighter other than Holyfield that Tyson didn't have a significant hand speed advantage on.
Against Holyfield, he ran into a guy who had the hand speed to punch with him. Add in the other points that you guys have already mentioned, bullying the bully, not backing down, roughing him up, etc.... and you can see why Tyson started to get frustrated.
Tyson didn't like the fact that when they let their hands go, Holyfield was giving as good as he was getting, if not better. In the first fight in particular, Holyfield took some mean shots from Tyson and kept coming. I'm sure that rattled Mike a little bit too as he was used to guys folding like a lawn chair after he hit them.
Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:19 pm
the real problem as to speed Victor was that Mike never got his timing back out of prison
just go watch McNeeley fight and Buster mathis Jr fight, Mike is missing a shit load of punches, it didnt matter but his timing was horrible, Holyfield made this obvious, even the Bruno rematch Mikes timing was shitty
he never regained the killer timing
victor879 Yellow Belt
Posts : 179 Join date : 2010-07-06
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:26 pm
Birdofthad wrote:
the real problem as to speed Victor was that Mike never got his timing back out of prison
just go watch McNeeley fight and Buster mathis Jr fight, Mike is missing a shit load of punches, it didnt matter but his timing was horrible, Holyfield made this obvious, even the Bruno rematch Mikes timing was shitty
he never regained the killer timing
Absolutely, and excellent point. Mike certainly wasn't as crisp when he came back from his lay off.
Something else to consider: Do you feel Tyson abandoned his body attack? Especially later in his career? I always thought early in his career he was great at going to the body with vicious hooks, before attacking the head. Chopping the tree down basically. I always felt that would have been the recipe for success against a Lennox Lewis type of match-up as well.
Seemed like Tyson turned completely into a head hunter, expecting guys to go down after he landed a big shot. But as Tyson fought better and better competition in his early career, I always thought his body attack really wore them down before his shots to the head put them down for good.
What do you think?
Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so.... Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:06 pm
your absolutely correct Tyson was nothing more than a glorified Head hunter after jail, and pretty much after Spinks
I dont think he landed 20 body shots after the Douglas fight if you add all his fights up
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Subject: Re: I wasn't around a boxing forum back then, so....