The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat.

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To be the man you have to beat the man. The only arguement right now to number 1 heavyweight is either Brock Lesnar or Fabricio Werdum. No 1 else right now.

The primary argument of the existence of the "lineal title" in combat sports. You do know Werdum has three "the man who beat the man" UFC lineal titles right? Two are products of Couture losing overseas while reigning as UFC HW champion, and one a product of losing it to Barnett in the UFC who was then kicked out to Pride. Excuse me for not really caring all that much about the title again that originated with Couture losing to someone.

Werdum is the #1 HW. Is he the best HW? Fuck no. But is Brock the best HW? Fuck no.

Ya even though I think Cain is either the best or second best skill for skill HW and would be around the top of my "who can beat who" type rankings, in terms of this, until he gets some more wins(brock) there is no case for him to be ranked 1. None.

Who someone has beaten so far is part of determining who is champion depending on the fight. Where you rank goes deeper than just that, at least for me. If two dudes are good and haven't fought each other yet then either can be justified for being ranked higher then the other. Absolute Conclusiveness like that is too narrow for me. Same old shit, Serra was once champ but I probably never ranked him 4th in the division he fights in, ever.

It's easy to retain your lineal title when you don't fight the best fighters. Brock would destroy Werdum and is a 50-50 chance against Fedor. Cain is not even in the arguement.

GDPofDRC wrote:

Who someone has beaten so far is part of determining who is champion depending on the fight. Where you rank goes deeper than just that, at least for me. If two dudes are good and haven't fought each other yet then either can be justified for being ranked higher then the other. Absolute Conclusiveness like that is too narrow for me. Same old shit, Serra was once champ but I probably never ranked him 4th in the division he fights in, ever.

If someone beats the champ fair and square then they are number 1 until they lose that title.

Black and white is too easy and not always right.

I agree with Freak... I have to rank Edgar above BJ until BJ takes it back. I ranked Serra above GSP until he took it back. It's not a matter of who I think is a better fighter, it's a matter of who has beaten whom and who's wearing the hardware.

Brock is like Shaq to me... Neither is a top-10 skillset wise, but Shaq could be argued as the most dominant at his position in basketball, and if people don't figure out how to take Brock down he could go down as the most dominant at HW since he'll likely never get easy fights again...

AA, Sylvia and Rogers were all quite solid competition when those contracts were signed. Stop that. You know what they were ranked at the fucking time. You're either stupid or purposely being intellectually dishonest to get back into that old and ridiculous "Fedor dont fight nobody" bullshit.

It may work on other people but not me. AA ditched the UFC because it was junk at the time. This is fact. I know Brock has won a bunch of title fights with champs and interm champions. But Couture's, Nog's and by extension Mir's HW titles all originated with Sylvia. Fedor wiped the floor with Tim in 36 seconds where Randy took five rounds and Nog had to rally late in the fight after taking a Maniac beating.


Questioning the modern lineage of the Pride/MMA HW lineal title is questioning the very recent lineage of Brock's title and the entire who beat who tree of the UFC HW division.


Werdum is #1 on my list and should be on your list too.

I hear all that but I have different philosophy. I don't rank Edgar ahead of BJ and never ranked Serra ahead of GSP. Too much MMAthmatics with the black and white approach for me.

I didn't say Fedor's opponents were bad I said they weren't the best competion. Brock is his biggest challenger now and back then it was Randy.

Werdum would be if he didn't get KTFO by Dos Santos who is not even top 3 Heavyweight in the UFC.

I don't know that Brock would even beat AA or Big Tim even now. I am less and less impressed with his takedowns and striking game every fight.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

AA, Sylvia and Rogers were all quite solid competition when those contracts were signed. Stop that. You know what they were ranked at the fucking time. You're either stupid or purposely being intellectually dishonest to get back into that old and ridiculous "Fedor dont fight nobody" bullshit.

It may work on other people but not me. AA ditched the UFC because it was junk at the time. This is fact. I know Brock has won a bunch of title fights with champs and interm champions. But Couture's, Nog's and by extension Mir's HW titles all originated with Sylvia. Fedor wiped the floor with Tim in 36 seconds where Randy took five rounds and Nog had to rally late in the fight after taking a Maniac beating.


Questioning the modern lineage of the Pride/MMA HW lineal title is questioning the very recent lineage of Brock's title and the entire who beat who tree of the UFC HW division.


Werdum is #1 on my list and should be on your list too.

Mostly agree Wolf... But I have to weigh in previous fights as well since Brock and Werdum are in diffrent orgs and haven't fought eachother. Werdum's losses to JDS and AA don't offset his win to Fedor "for me". And I truly believe if they fight again, Fedor doesn't make a mistake and finishes Werdum in impressive fashion. Right now I have Brock, Werdum and Fedor as my 1-3 with the cast of contenders in the UFC (Except Overeem) mostly filling up the final spots...

BTW- If Brock had lost that fight, he'd barely be in the top-10 for me (And likely out of the top-20 for you)... And you know that if Werdum had lost, you wouldn't have had him in your top-10 at all... Neither would I...

Werdum would have still be top ten thanks to his win over Silva, but around the bottom for me. I'd stick Werdum if he lost at 9 and Brock probably at 10, or vice versa.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I don't know that Brock would even beat AA or Big Tim even now. I am less and less impressed with his takedowns and striking game every fight.

This comment proves how much of a moron you are.

Freak I would advise against talking to me like that. Tim always had good takedown defense his whole career and Lesnar other than against Mir and Herring is a pedestrian fighter with pedestrian skills, who is reliant on size or his opponents collapse. Tim has longer arms than Brock. Tim is as big as Brock. AA isn't getting out struck by Brock. I haven't seen Brock finish anyone on the ground save a tiny ancient Couture, Kim and Mir. Frank Mir is not the measure of a great HW IMO.

I'd pick Brock as a favorite but I wouldn't be shocked if the former champions were better than the current UFC champion.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Freak I would advise against talking to me like that.

Something about that made me literally laugh out loud. I have to log off and change my depends Wolf. Thanks for that...

Talking to me like that is a great way to get me to send both Nick Ring and Court McGee over to your house to bleed on you.

I guess since we can't discuss Fedor's invincibility anymore, trashing Brock is 2nd best? Because that is all I have heard since he WON! Hell, if it hadn't been for that douche Mazzigati not noticing Mir turning his head to accept blows on the back of the head, Brock would have won the first fight and be undefeated. And I still would have to listen to this for the next 5 months. Gee guys.

Brock was warned and I heard it on the live broadcast. But he didn't listen and that loss is legit. I like how questioning Brock's invincibility is "trashing" him. Two way street.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Brock was warned and I heard it on the live broadcast. But he didn't listen and that loss is legit. I like how questioning Brock's invincibility is "trashing" him. Two way street.

Saw that fight did you? Then you too noticed him turning his head to 'create' a warning/point deduction and give him a moment of respite. It is a legit victory BTW, I am not denying that, I am not a complete tard.

What the fuck? No I saw Brock pounding the back of dudes head repeatedly after the warning.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Freak I would advise against talking to me like that. Tim always had good takedown defense his whole career and Lesnar other than against Mir and Herring is a pedestrian fighter with pedestrian skills, who is reliant on size or his opponents collapse. Tim has longer arms than Brock. Tim is as big as Brock. AA isn't getting out struck by Brock. I haven't seen Brock finish anyone on the ground save a tiny ancient Couture, Kim and Mir. Frank Mir is not the measure of a great HW IMO.

I'd pick Brock as a favorite but I wouldn't be shocked if the former champions were better than the current UFC champion.

Then don't call me stupid or a liar like in your previous post.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

What the fuck? No I saw Brock pounding the back of dudes head repeatedly after the warning.

You need glasses bad then. There is a reason Mazzagati isn't allowed to ref in a Brock fight now. He screwed Brock bad! He shouldn't have gave the warning, or stopped to take a point. Brock was hitting frank behind the ear as much as any other fight I have seen guys getting hit in that spot and Frank did turn his head like a pussy. It WAS NOT in the middle of the back of the head in any way. Brock got screwed against Mir and that fight is moot since Brock beat the shit out of him at UFC 100. Brock is undefeated in my book right now.

+1 for Drew and -1 for Wolf.

Wolf you just told a lie because of the hate you have for Brock. I honestly want to hear from any poster that thinks Brock deserved to get a point taken in that fight. No Mir fans allowed Ali, lol.