| The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:23 pm | |
| http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/8/1558350/the-far-reaching-consequences-ofI love alternate history, the idea that the world could be vastly different if only "what if" happened instead. My favorites are those points in time when a simple command, a slight hesitation, or an errant bullet could have easily taken us on a divergent path with far reaching consequences. What if… Cortës never escaped Tenochtitlan, if the Hitler never survived the 20 July plot, if the American dive-bombers missed the 7-minute window of opportunity at Midway, if Frank Wills never noticed the tape on the door latches at the Watergate Hotel? What if… The consequences would have been immediate and far-reaching. The world we live in would have been altered greatly, to the point were it might not be recognizable. I can’t help to think... what if?
Last Saturday a "what if" of our own occurred in the world of mma at UFC 116. We've had them before: what if ZUFFA never bought the UFC, what if Josh Barnett hadn't tested positive for PEDs, what if PRIDE never folded, what if Fedor had signed with the UFC. But I can't remember such a momentous turning point in the short history of the sport taking place, not behind closed doors, but inside the Octagon before our very eyes, hinging solely on the decision of a single man, a decision whose consequences go far beyond the small matter of whether Brock or Carwin hold the title.
If Jake Rosenthal had called the fight at 3:30 in the first, how many would have protested? Maybe Brock would have sprung up to complain that he could still fight, but to the majority of witnesses it was obvious that Rosenthal would have been doing the right thing: Brock was as good as finished and Rosenthal was mercifully saving him from a beating as bad as Finney took from Cyborg. Think what that would have meant? Yes, Shane Carwin would now be the UFC's Heavyweight Champion and would have rightfully taken his place as the number one ranked heavyweight in the world. But even more important and far-reaching, the last lingering image of Brock in our mind's eye from that fight would have been this:
via i45.tinypic.com
Sunday morning the headlines and forum pages would have screamed "Fraud", "Exposed", and "Overrated". He would have been ridiculed as a coward who ran and cowered in a corner when finally confronted by a fighter his size. He would have no longer been a champion but an ex-pro wrestler with only five fights, who couldn't lick it when facing an opponent he couldn't bully.
Would it have been fair? No. But fans are as fickle as the finger of fate, and would have turned on their conquering hero as soon as the referee called the fight. And then what? Could his image recover from that? I doubt it. Much as Fedor's aura of invincibility can never be recovered, Brock would have lost the mantle of "The Baddest Man of the Planet" for at least the foreseeable future.
From a business perspective, the turnabout would have been dramatic. It is no stretch to call Brock the biggest draw in all the UFC. The numbers speak for themselves. Not having Brock as the champ would probably cost the UFC at least 300,000 buys every time the belt was defended. Even worse, Brock could easily have left the cage damaged goods. He would have still been big enough to headline a card, but no longer would the chasm between his drawing power and any other fighters been so great. He would have no longer been king but only first among peers.
But thankfully Rosenthal didn't call the fight. Thankfully he let the men in the cage decide the outcome. And because of this equally momentous decision, the UFC may be looking at a new era. After a night of exciting slugfests, each ending more dramatically than the last, the card was climaxed by perhaps the most electrifying and improbable of endings ever witnessed. For the one million who bought this card, how many will be willing to purchase another UFC or Brock card? A good percentage, I wager. How many who missed it are now promising themselves that they won't miss the next? An equally impressive number I wager. 10-20% growth by Zuffa thanks solely to this card cannot now be out of the question.
This was a fight that years from now we may look back and point at, saying, "that's the fight that changed everything", all because of a single slit-second decision. And all we can do is ask "what if?"
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:28 pm | |
| I really enjoy alternate universe discussion. Especially this alternate universe. | |
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Birdofthad Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Ken shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Pete Williams, you get it Lions Den Posts : 17542 Join date : 2009-07-19 Age : 37 Location : D Town
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 pm | |
| gotta disagree biggest what if in MMA is what if Royce Gracie beats Ken Shamrock in the rematch and doesnt leave
in my opinion | |
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acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:37 pm | |
| What if Carwin had worked out on his cardio and been able to finish Brock? Rosenthal told them both before the fight he would give them three chances and Brock was following along the whole time. He took some shots and got the win.
What if Carwin hadn't tapped when Brock choked the life out of him?
You are reaching so bad for the hate of Brock that you have Wolf. In the famous words of Mike Goldberg "IT IS ALL OVER!" | |
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acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:38 pm | |
| Bloody Elbow lol! A fan who can type posted a story and Wolf jumped on it. | |
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acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:40 pm | |
| Wolf look at your sig and tell me how many punches actually land. Carwin's aim is about as good as a kid with a 12 guage shotgun using one arm to shoot. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:53 pm | |
| Why are you so defensive about Lesnar? Anything short of calling him an unbeatable cyborg is construed as hate with an agenda. Get over your persecution complex. Everything in this article is true. Is that why it bothers you?
My sig is a hellpig anyway dumbdick. | |
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bobbitt15 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael Sonnen, Michael Chandler, Jorge Masvidal, Carlos Condit Posts : 14830 Join date : 2009-07-16 Age : 35 Location : Cincinnati
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:26 am | |
| - Wolfgangsta wrote:
- Why are you so defensive about Lesnar? Anything short of calling him an unbeatable cyborg is construed as hate with an agenda. Get over your persecution complex. Everything in this article is true. Is that why it bothers you?
My sig is a hellpig anyway dumbdick. LMAO | |
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acccardinal12 Gold Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Cung Le, BJ Penn, Mayhem, Chael Sonnen, Anthony Pettis Posts : 10925 Join date : 2009-12-04 Age : 48 Location : Kentuckiana
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:38 am | |
| - Wolfgangsta wrote:
- Why are you so defensive about Lesnar? Anything short of calling him an unbeatable cyborg is construed as hate with an agenda. Get over your persecution complex. Everything in this article is true. Is that why it bothers you?
My sig is a hellpig anyway dumbdick. My bad at the bottom of the story there is a sig of Carwin on top of Lesnar in the beginning of the fight. Can you not see it? Oh and I saw the hellpig, but I thought that was you and your wife hunting dinner or some shit? My bad dog! I never meant Brock was a cyborg like you want everyone to beleive Mr. Mislead. I am just saying this because you try so hard to make Brock look bad and pull up some idiot from bloody elbow's story up. I bet if everyone looked back we would all see 10-15 threads by Wolf about why Lesnar isn't as good or whatever, and one story where you said a positive and halfway dogged him in the end. I am a fan so of course I would stick up for him. He won get over it! | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:02 am | |
| What if people stop bitching about Brock and finally give him credit for being the number 1 heavweight in the world. |
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killerofchicken Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Mauricio Shogun Rua, BJ Penn, AXE MURDERER,Fedor, CroCop, Vitor Belfort, JDS Posts : 16162 Join date : 2010-02-28 Age : 38 Location : Iowa
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:16 am | |
| what if we lived in a perfect world... | |
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redvexx8 Green Belt
Posts : 690 Join date : 2009-10-01 Location : ATL
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:15 am | |
| At one point I thought the ref was going to stop it. I would have been pissed but it would not have been considered any early stoppage IMO. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:14 pm | |
| Brock isn't the best HW in the world though and anyone honest with themselves can see that. Even Kenflo said there are better HW's in the UFC on MMAlive. The entire panel more or less called him a skill deprived oaf. | |
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Andrew the Raider King Red Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Chael, Sexyama, Condit, Hendricks, Cowboy, Struve Posts : 4356 Join date : 2009-07-17 Age : 54 Location : Montgomery, AL
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:24 pm | |
| - Wolfgangsta wrote:
- Why are you so defensive about Lesnar? Anything short of calling him an unbeatable cyborg is construed as hate with an agenda. Get over your persecution complex. Everything in this article is true. Is that why it bothers you?
My sig is a hellpig anyway dumbdick. Actually, everything in the article is false. What ifs are exactly that. It is like dumbass Democrats trying to re-write history and calling it fact. The reality is what is bothering people and that is just sad. | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:29 pm | |
| LOL what bothers people is admitting how different the narative would be if their hero had been stopped in the first round. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:36 pm | |
| Brock is the UFC champ and Fedor just lost so Brock is the number 1 heavyweight in the world until someone beats him for that belt. How much skill you have has nothing to do with it. It's who wins the fight. |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:43 pm | |
| Werdum would be the number 1 HW under that logic if applied correctly.
If you wanna rank Brock 1 because of Fedor's loss fine, but I don't agree and won't agree unless he beats Cain impressively. And even then depending on what Fedor and Werdum have done one of them might be higher in my rankings.
I don't think much of Brock as a fighter, I'm sorry I just don't. | |
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Ludo Bronze Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : The Prodigy, The Great, Viking Dahmer, The Phenom Posts : 6474 Join date : 2009-09-12
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:35 pm | |
| Not necessarily, Wolf. Werdum was at the low end of top 10 and in some cases just outside of it. In any sport if the #1 team in the nation loses to a team ranked outside the top 10 and sometimes at the 9-10 position that lower ranked team doesn't shoot up to #1, they usually jump to about 4-5 while that #1 gets dropped to about 6-7. However Fedors record allows him to stay in the top 3, Werdum would be top 5 right now but Brock would be #1 due to his prior ranking and the fact that he just beat another top 5 Heavyweight. | |
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captain organic Bronze Belt
Posts : 7730 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : NJ
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:43 pm | |
| I never really thought that fight should have been stopped. Not in a title fight. | |
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LTFG Brown Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Wolfy Posts : 2578 Join date : 2009-07-20 Age : 113 Location : Bend, OR.
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:51 pm | |
| It's true that Mazzy or Lavigne would have stopped it, but they both are notorious for early stoppages. Rosenthal did the right thing in allowing it to continue. Was Brock intelligently defending himself during that barrage?... No. But it was obvious he wasn't really taking much if any real damage and was weathering a storm by moving back and forth and talking to the ref during the onslaught. Different referees allow more or less under those circumstances. The world's full of what if's and the Lesnar hating author that probably lost his rent money on the fight needs to realize this... | |
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Wolfgangsta Platinum Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Conor McGregor, Machida, Jon Jones, Ronda Rousey Posts : 18955 Join date : 2009-07-15 Location : USA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:59 pm | |
| - Quote :
- Not necessarily, Wolf. Werdum was at the low end of top 10 and in some cases just outside of it. In any sport if the #1 team in the nation loses to a team ranked outside the top 10 and sometimes at the 9-10 position that lower ranked team doesn't shoot up to #1, they usually jump to about 4-5 while that #1 gets dropped to about 6-7. However Fedors record allows him to stay in the top 3, Werdum would be top 5 right now but Brock would be #1 due to his prior ranking and the fact that he just beat another top 5 Heavyweight.
You're applying BCS logic to ranking with Werdum but at the same time giving Brock #1 status simply because of his belt. If every fight were exactly the same but he wasn't champ he wouldn't be #1. Let's not pretend by the time Randy fought Brock most of the other top HW's in the UFC wouldn't have also flattened him, and done it within a round. Because he is champion now his few good wins are worth more. Fight for fight, Cain and JDS have better UFC records. Fedor was the HW champion of the entire sport for seven years. The fight game aint the BCS. If Brock moves into the top five for simply being UFC champion and into conversation for #1, then Werdum does too for beating Fedor who was the universal champion. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:02 pm | |
| To be the man you have to beat the man. The only arguement right now to number 1 heavyweight is either Brock Lesnar or Fabricio Werdum. No 1 else right now. |
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GDPofDRC Administrator
Favorite Fighter(s) : Shogun, Fedor, Wand, Saku, Hendo, BJ, Bas, Cain, Mike Vallely Posts : 21274 Join date : 2009-08-04 Age : 104 Location : Fresyes, CA
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:06 pm | |
| 2 guys who haven't beat Cain Velasquez. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:12 pm | |
| Well they can't have beat every fighter in the world. Cain hasn't beat them either. He hasn't beaten any contender. Big Nog was past it when Cain beat him. |
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LTFG Brown Belt
Favorite Fighter(s) : Wolfy Posts : 2578 Join date : 2009-07-20 Age : 113 Location : Bend, OR.
| Subject: Re: The Far Reaching Consequences of Brock's Cowardly Defeat. Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:14 pm | |
| - GDPofDRC wrote:
- 2 guys who haven't beat Cain Velasquez.
By the same token, who has Cain beat GDP... Rothwell, Kongo and a shell of a Nog? If he gets past Brock there's room for discussion, but until he's wearing a UFC belt there's no intelligent argument to be made... | |
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