Who will replace Manny and Money when their gone?

I love boxing. No one is saying boxing is dead or dying. I defend boxing against those few MMA fans who claim the sport is dying or MMA is better. I don't even acknowledge the rivalry. But no one can with a straight face claim things are going well stateside with boxing. The public profile of boxing has been damaged significantly. Everyone at my office for instance says "boxing sucks nowdays" "i liked it when it was good" ect. There is exactly one fight that gets discussed at the water cooler, and it appears it may not even happen. 9 out of 10 people have no idea who the Klits bothers even are. No one knows who David Haye is. All we talk is sports, but I've never talked to anyone who even knows what the Super-Six is. The local ESPN show covers Tennis, Nascar and MMA significantly more than boxing. I've tried to call in and get the broadcasters to talk boxing and they tell me they don't have time to discuss it, because no one cares about it.

So, if Mayweather and Manny retired tomorrow, let me, a somewhat more casual fan know what boxers will be on the cover of SI in 2012. Who will be selling PPVs, who will be main eventing huge fights on HBO, and who will be being discussed on Sportscenter? The fact is, there is a huge public perception that the promoters have not created enough future stars.

Please friends, no getting defensive. No talk of trolls. SOONERS is a great friend and an even better lover.

The fact is boxing has one fight right now that captivates the sportsfaring public, ONE FIGHT, and right now boxing is structured only to be accessable to it's hardcore fans. The so called "casual" fight fan, as long as he doesn't mind wrestling is gearing toward the UFC and will continue to do so at an increasing rate this decade. I don't pretend to know everything about boxing's business model, but what I do know disturbs me. There is no set TV schedule and no easy way for fans to find the best young and up and coming fighters.

I think one of the problems with boxing right now is that it is too nitch-oriented. Let me know if this is off-base, but it seems boxing promoters are just concerned with marketing Latino fighters to Latino fans, and African American boxers to African American fans. The sport is completely losing touch with white Americans and anyone else of other cultural or ethnic backgrounds. Is there any validity to that?

I can understand a boxing hardcore fan's frustration with this topic though, since it comes up constantly on boxing message boards and has for years and years. Maybe that is why they'd rather just write it off as a troll and pretend it will just go away.

When you say Sooners they probably assume you are talking about Mark since he is the boxing mod. Atleast you can do is clearify that your obsurd comments are about me.

That was directed at those who read the other topic and saw you chime in with your two anti wolf cents. I said SOONERS doesn't watch boxing or post here. Clearly they'd be smart enough to figure out I'm talking the guy with the all caps name who isn't green and posting in every single boxing thread.

Just get over dude. Or better yet, what do you think about this?


I love boxing and wish it was on TV more and with I knew a better way to find and watch exciting fights and fighters.

Do you realize how much more work it takes to be a boxing hardcore? Holy shit!

not sure what your point is, that no stars in boxing are left? that w/out Pac or Floyd the sport is doomed?

Not so, look back when Floyd retired, the sport exploded w/out Floyd and DLH

Better fights bring out more fans - simple as that, a star will be born out of that

Your right that the image of the sport is in bad shape, promoters are fucking lazy now a days they live off site fees or the networks' $

But when GBP wants PPV buys, they get them w/crazy hype and mass marketing across all mediums

Promoters are learning that where a fighter is from, is how you create a draw (local fighters in local venues)

Andre Ward in Oakland
James Kirkland in Texas
Robert Guerrero in San Jose
Fernando Guerrero in Maryland/DC area
Mike Alvarado in Denver
Mexicanos in So Cal, Southwest

Look at that Notre Dame kid, ALREADY a draw

People will continue to support the sport even though there isnt one name. Aint going nowhere, like I said before, its not about PPVs

I apologize Wolf for overreacting and calling you a troll. I assumed intent that wasn't there and should have kept my mouth shut. Hopefully we can all move on in a civilized manner and discuss the sports we enjoy watching.

Floyd retired and Pacquiao took the baton. When Pac retires I assume one of the guys at 140 will step up. Klitscho's sell 60,000 seat arena's almost everytime out. Cotto just fought at Yankee stadium and Arum has promised to bring a fight to Giants stadium. Boxing is worldwide and while it has been in bad shape in America it will continue to draw big crowds elsewhere.

Ya worldwide boxing is giant. Isn't Kessler the biggest sports star in all of Holland?

I am more talking about stateside. I guess I just want boxing to be like it used to here. A major sport. The biggest boxing movies for instance in recent history was a sequel to a Rocky movie where a Rocky who is so old they can't even give his age less they completely destroy the suspension-of-disbelief and the movie about James Braddock.

I know Pacman stepped up when DLH and Floyd retired, but my concern with that is how much of that had to do with the DLH fight itself? The torch was passed directly. By that logic it seems that some upstart would have to knock Pacman the fuck out to become a draw.

I think someone mentioned a valid point that it isn't about PPV's. Maybe these changes will cause the sport to move away from PPV's entirely. In fact if they did that would make boxing a real viable alternative for casual PPV buyers who pick the type of event they would buy, further distancing itself from the UFC.(note, not trying to bring up a rivalry aspect)

Quote :

Andre Ward in Oakland
James Kirkland in Texas
Robert Guerrero in San Jose
Fernando Guerrero in Maryland/DC area
Mike Alvarado in Denver
Mexicanos in So Cal, Southwest

I consider myself a boxing fan, and watch boxing at least once a month, and I am not familar with all of these fighters mentioned. This is part of the problem. I like boxing and I don't even know all the basics.

Quote :

not sure what your point is, that no stars in boxing are left? that w/out Pac or Floyd the sport is doomed?

I'm not saying this, but I am worried that boxing will continue to slip and eventually be blow curling lol. And I am worried that others will say this. A situation could easily materialize where none of the top viewed fight cards in 2011 or 12 were boxing. If that happens, the media would declare boxing dead and people would move on. The situation could become toxic for gathering new fans.


I miss my childhood when Tyson, Punchout and Rocky electrified the public.


What are the chances boxing goes back to a major network?

I consider myself a boxing fan, and watch boxing at least once a month, and I am not familar with all of these fighters mentioned. This is part of the problem. I like boxing and I don't even know all the basics.[/quote]

Listen to guys like Gomez, Bird, Marble, D Mar, Canvas and Ali. They educate me on a daily basis.

In the same breath any sport I casually follow I don't know most of the players. Beside Sidney Crosby and Povetkin I couldn't name ten hockey players.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya worldwide boxing is giant. Isn't Kessler the biggest sports star in all of Holland?

I am more talking about stateside. I guess I just want boxing to be like it used to here. A major sport. The biggest boxing movies for instance in recent history was a sequel to a Rocky movie where a Rocky who is so old they can't even give his age less they completely destroy the suspension-of-disbelief and the movie about James Braddock.

I know Pacman stepped up when DLH and Floyd retired, but my concern with that is how much of that had to do with the DLH fight itself? The torch was passed directly. By that logic it seems that some upstart would have to knock Pacman the fuck out to become a draw.

I think someone mentioned a valid point that it isn't about PPV's. Maybe these changes will cause the sport to move away from PPV's entirely. In fact if they did that would make boxing a real viable alternative for casual PPV buyers who pick the type of event they would buy, further distancing itself from the UFC.(note, not trying to bring up a rivalry aspect)

Quote :

Andre Ward in Oakland
James Kirkland in Texas
Robert Guerrero in San Jose
Fernando Guerrero in Maryland/DC area
Mike Alvarado in Denver
Mexicanos in So Cal, Southwest

I consider myself a boxing fan, and watch boxing at least once a month, and I am not familar with all of these fighters mentioned. This is part of the problem. I like boxing and I don't even know all the basics.

Yep Kessler is one of Denmark's high profile stars

As for the fighter's quoted, its boxing like it used to be, local fighters in local venues. One way of bringing the sport back to the people

And I completely agree, my buddy like you, just a casual fan said that's his problem with the sport - following it, knowing who/what to look for

It is an issue that wasnt in the past w/boxing on network TV, but now various networks airing fights on different dates/times

Like Hardcore mentioned, got to follow something to know it

You want to watch UFC? Click over to Spike

Want to catch some fights? Grab the TV guide and hope you find them - ESPN2, Versus, HBO, Showtime, or Spanish networks like Telefutura or Telemundo

Aside from FNFs, the boxing calendar is a mess, look at HBO, they dont have another fight until mid July

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I'm not saying this, but I am worried that boxing will continue to slip and eventually be blow curling lol. And I am worried that others will say this. A situation could easily materialize where none of the top viewed fight cards in 2011 or 12 were boxing. If that happens, the media would declare boxing dead and people would move on. The situation could become toxic for gathering new fans.


I miss my childhood when Tyson, Punchout and Rocky electrified the public.


What are the chances boxing goes back to a major network?

I think the media, ESPN talking heads/etc, know boxing is doing well and there is an audience for it

AOL Fanhouse, ESPN, and SI all have stepped up their coverage because they knew it was lacking and fans wanted it

I think the general opinion of the sport has improved over the last few years

If boxing gets back on network TV, would be bc of Showtime & CBS, they seem to be the ones who are thinking ahead and improving the sport

They've done well w/SF, so I'm sure if the Super Six grows and develops a larger audience, or if a well liked US Olympian Andre Ward continues to shine, the finale could be on CBS

I will say following boxing takes a lot of work with all the champions, belts, bodies, and weight classes. 7 weight classes and 2 organizations in the US is all you really need to follow. Following MMA is so much easier.

What websites are good for boxing general knowledge?

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I will say following boxing takes a lot of work with all the champions, belts, bodies, and weight classes. 7 weight classes and 2 organizations in the US is all you really need to follow. Following MMA is so much easier.

What websites are good for boxing general knowledge?

Yep, one organization running things makes it that way

I like the following

News
ESPN.com, Fightnews.com, and boxingscene.com (beware of viruses)

Opinions, reviews
theboxingtruth.com - good radio show as well on Sundays, badlefthook.com

Wolfgangsta wrote:

I will say following boxing takes a lot of work with all the champions, belts, bodies, and weight classes. 7 weight classes and 2 organizations in the US is all you really need to follow. Following MMA is so much easier.

What websites are good for boxing general knowledge?

The difficulty of following boxing is kind of what I like about it, it makes it a lot of fun to discover guys and watch them come up. It's kind of like being into foreign films or underground music. Boxing fans have become a counterculture of sorts. Most hardcore fans study the long history of the sport and appreciate the technique and heart of great boxers throughout history. I would say a third of the books on my shelf relate to boxing. I collect fights on DVD and re watch them like I would listen to a favorite album or watch a favorite film.

Badlefthook.com

ESPN.com

or ninjas place all provide most of the articles that one would need to remain current on the boxing world.

hardcoreBEE24 wrote:

The difficulty of following boxing is kind of what I like about it, it makes it a lot of fun to discover guys and watch them come up. It's kind of like being into foreign films or underground music. Boxing fans have become a counterculture of sorts. Most hardcore fans study the long history of the sport and appreciate the technique and heart of great boxers throughout history. I would say a third of the books on my shelf relate to boxing. I collect fights on DVD and re watch them like I would listen to a favorite album or watch a favorite film.

Badlefthook.com

ESPN.com

or ninjas place all provide most of the articles that one would need to remain current on the boxing world.

+1

well said

OUSOONERSOU wrote:

When you say Sooners they probably assume you are talking about Mark since he is the boxing mod. Atleast you can do is clearify that your obsurd comments are about me.

LOL Yeah we have yet to make love Wolfy.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

That was directed at those who read the other topic and saw you chime in with your two anti wolf cents. I said SOONERS doesn't watch boxing or post here. Clearly they'd be smart enough to figure out I'm talking the guy with the all caps name who isn't green and posting in every single boxing thread.

Just get over dude. Or better yet, what do you think about this?


I love boxing and wish it was on TV more and with I knew a better way to find and watch exciting fights and fighters.

Do you realize how much more work it takes to be a boxing hardcore? Holy shit!

Wolfy you should come on here once or twice a week and ask Ali about who is fighting and ask him for a link. If he does not know ask me. We can tell you everything you need to know.

Wolfgangsta wrote:

Ya worldwide boxing is giant. Isn't Kessler the biggest sports star in all of Holland?

I am more talking about stateside. I guess I just want boxing to be like it used to here. A major sport. The biggest boxing movies for instance in recent history was a sequel to a Rocky movie where a Rocky who is so old they can't even give his age less they completely destroy the suspension-of-disbelief and the movie about James Braddock.

I know Pacman stepped up when DLH and Floyd retired, but my concern with that is how much of that had to do with the DLH fight itself? The torch was passed directly. By that logic it seems that some upstart would have to knock Pacman the fuck out to become a draw.

I think someone mentioned a valid point that it isn't about PPV's. Maybe these changes will cause the sport to move away from PPV's entirely. In fact if they did that would make boxing a real viable alternative for casual PPV buyers who pick the type of event they would buy, further distancing itself from the UFC.(note, not trying to bring up a rivalry aspect)

Quote :

Andre Ward in Oakland
James Kirkland in Texas
Robert Guerrero in San Jose
Fernando Guerrero in Maryland/DC area
Mike Alvarado in Denver
Mexicanos in So Cal, Southwest

I consider myself a boxing fan, and watch boxing at least once a month, and I am not familar with all of these fighters mentioned. This is part of the problem. I like boxing and I don't even know all the basics.

Wolf there is a new boxing movie coming out soon. Check this out.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0964517/

This thread appears every few months. When one star retires another arises, its been like that since the days of SRR. Of the last 20 Years we had Chavez and Tyson, than they left, we still had DLH and Tito, than Floyd, Now Pac. Mexicos Alvarez and PRs Juanma Lopez will be stars in their own countries. The next Mexican-American star will be Jose Benavidez (already handling his own against Khan and Pac, just turned 18) and Frankie Gomez (beat Benavidez in the Amatuers). Khan will be the next star out of the UK. Bradley, Ward, Alexander, PW will be the next attraction for AA. Not to be racist, but people generally follow fighters based on factors like race, ethnicity and location. Boxing hasnt died and wont die, Cotto had a 3.9 rating on HBO last saturday. Boxing is a world sport, so its just not in the US. Its huge in Europe, Japan, Mexico, Germany and many other countries. Boxing is still bigger than MMA.More $$$$ is still being made in boxing for fighters and thats the reason we will continue to see impressive prospects every year and keep getting household names every single time.

All depends on whether somebody is able to beat Mayweather or Pacquiao before they retire. I think Devon Alexander has the potential if he escapes from Don King.

you would think after a few days the allure of that clip would wear off. It doesn't Ali. That clip needs to be replaced.

Boxing thrives when great fighters are on the scene. Boxing nose dives when the opposite happens. Also, the leading boxing networks, HBO, Showtime and ESPN have not produced a consistant supply of talent to keep the casual viewer interested. We used to have "USA Tuesday Night Fights" which was a wonderful show and introduced new talent on a regular basis. For some reason, the show was cancelled and ESPN, though it has power, seems to be lacking in the brain department. There are a lot of answers to your question as to why boxing interest among casual fans has dropped. (1) The worst HW division in my memory. (2) The return of Floyd Mayweather. Think about it. He stays retired and we see Pac vs. Mosley. Pac drops Mosley in 5 exciting rounds. With his return, Mayweather has held things up and the only ones interested in what he's doing are his die hard fans. (3) Media: Back to the Media. Big guys from America are supposed to be interested in football and basketball and this is the supposed reason that the HW division has taken a nose dive. I think the lack of inner city gyms is the reason however that's debatable. What isn't up for argument is the smaller weight divisions. Where is Tommy Hearns, Aaron Pryor, Roberto Duran, Salvador Sanchez, etc.? We have more talent in the lower weight divisions, however if one fight, Manny vs. Mayweather, is dominating boxing to the point that it is frustrating people to the brink of insanity, the lower divisions need work as well. I think the solution is simple. A good boxing show with a promoter who knows how to match styles to create exciting fights. Also, a project to create more gyms for fans of these fighters to develop into fighters themselves. (4) Please don't kid yourself. "Sports Illustrated" is not prejudiced against the sport of boxing. SI's objective is to sell magazines. Boxing needs to produce special athletes in order for that to happen. The answer to these problems are simple. Developing a solution to solve them is not. My opinion.